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Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
Diomedes
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Posts: 669
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 6.1


(3)
Message 16 of 710 (799899)
02-17-2017 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
02-17-2017 12:32 PM


Re: Questioning Faith
Do you check with
Drudge Report
Breitbart
Newsmax
World Net Daily
Infowars
Frontpage Mag

I can't speak for others, but I have read the Drudge Report before.

With regards to Breitbart and Infowars, those are not news Faith. They are tabloids. Alex Jones is a complete conspiracy nut. This is a guy that talks about gay frogs, that Lady Gaga's Superbowl halftime show was some Satanic Ritual and that inter-dimensional aliens are controlling the New World Order. And no, I did not make that last one up. Take a look for yourself:

Oh lots more. The stuff you all just dismiss, that gets called "fake news" by the REAL fake news.

We don't dismiss things. We analyze data and draw conclusions. Individuals such as yourself draw conclusions and then work backwards from them. As evidenced by your copious other posts pertaining to science, the bible, etc.

There ARE conspiracies out there. Why is that so hard to accept? It's not that hard to organize a conspiracy if you have a mind to and a source of funding, and there are plenty who have both.

In actuality Faith, it is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to organize a conspiracy. It requires a massive apparatus, a whole slew of individuals and an air-tight security model. And as we all know, keeping secrets is virtually impossible in this modern day and age.

Incidentally, if an individual is seeing conspiracies everyone, there are only two possible logical conclusions one can draw:

1) Conspiracies abound and we are all beholden to the NWO and the Inter-dimensional aliens
-or-
2) That individual is delusional

Now which is more probable?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 12:32 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 5:04 PM Diomedes has responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1360
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.7


(5)
Message 17 of 710 (799900)
02-17-2017 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Faith
02-17-2017 10:35 AM


I know about Twitter from trustworthy sources. Also about the infiltration of the Townhall meetings. But in my opinion anyone who is half conscious ought to know such things are rigged because we know he's very popular.

Consider what a 45% approval rating means. This means there are well over 100 million people who approve of the job Trump's doing. 100 million is an enormous number - we are not really capable of comprehending numbers so large, since it's so divorced from anything we experience on a daily basis. So more than 100 million people approving of you means you are, indeed, pretty popular.

Nevertheless, in a country as vast as the US, it also means there are even more people who disapprove. Now, these people are not randomly distributed. They cluster by geography and social group; so your own social circleis going to give you a very poor understanding of how people in general think.

I know nobody who approves of Trump. Every single person with whom the matter has come up in person has been critical of Trump (with one exception). And not just a little bit critical - vociferously critical. He is seen as a figure of ridicule and/or fear by pretty much everybody I know.

And yet, I know that 'everybody I know' is a tiny insignificant fraction of humanity. 'Everybody I know' is not a representative sample of anything - not even the place where I live, so it seems perfectly plausible that there are 100s of millions of Trump supporters elsewhere, even if I never meet any of these people I read about on the internet or see on TV.

The same applies to your social circle. Even if the overwhelming majority of people you speak with are Trump supporters, it's still perfectly plausible that Trump supporters are in a minority. Everyone you ever meet in your entire life would still consitute a tiny and insignificant minority of the US population. That's why they invented opinion polling - it's not possible to figure out how popular or unpopular someone or something is by relying on people you meet.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 10:35 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by NoNukes, posted 02-17-2017 2:00 PM caffeine has not yet responded
 Message 24 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 5:29 PM caffeine has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10120
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


(4)
Message 18 of 710 (799901)
02-17-2017 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Faith
02-17-2017 10:35 AM


Did you ever see any of them ask such disrespectful questions of Obama? Did they ever question his credibility when he lied about how people could keep their own doctors and wouldn't have to pay more with Obamacare?

Your memory is very selective. The press was all over Obama's statement that "'If you like your health care plan, you can keep it ...' Perhaps this is an example of how you view reality rather than some example of a biased press.

At the very least, surely you can agree that Trump's actions have been controversial even if you agree with them. The idea that the press cannot then ask difficult questions seems a bit silly.

Surely you noticed Trump insulting some reporters before they even asked their questions.

I know about Twitter from trustworthy sources. Also about the infiltration of the Townhall meetings.

Translation to regular speak: "I believe every wingnut theory ever presented."

Of course, you can find BS on the internet. What is questionable is your ability to separate the chaff from the wheat? How you always end up on the wrong end of that task on every single subject from vaccines, to geology, to politics is a marvel.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 10:35 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 5:32 PM NoNukes has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10120
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 19 of 710 (799903)
02-17-2017 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by caffeine
02-17-2017 1:41 PM


And yet, I know that 'everybody I know' is a tiny insignificant fraction of humanity. 'Everybody I know' is not a representative sample of anything - not even the place where I live, so it seems perfectly plausible that there are 100s of millions of Trump supporters elsewhere, even if I never meet any of these people I read about on the internet or see on TV.

The above is one sentence out of an excellent post.

The country is highly polarized. Anyone who cannot accept that huge sections of the population see Trump differently than they do is fairly naive. Of course "all of the folks I know" is not a representative sample of anything but me.

More than half of folks voted against Trump. Many if not all of them were expecting exactly the kinds of things that Trump is currently not doing. Why would it be strange that Trump is extremely unpopular at least that portion of folks?

Again, I am still waiting to hear some earnest opinions from conservatives. Surely their opinions are not all based on conspiracy theories based on Drudge report and Infowars>


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by caffeine, posted 02-17-2017 1:41 PM caffeine has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 16316
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 20 of 710 (799905)
02-17-2017 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Faith
02-17-2017 10:35 AM


Faith writes:

The 45% is the fake news. We on Trump's side knew it even if the rest of you bought it.

And you know this how?

As I said, I agree with you that Trump's approval ratings are not "in the toilet." One should be careful how one doles out superlatives, otherwise none are left by the time something truly appropriate for a superlative occurs. In the case of approval ratings I'd call 30% or lower "in the toilet." Right now they're simply dismal for a president in the first month of a freshly elected administration.

What IS unprecedented is the media's attitude.

The media is reacting the same way anyone does to someone uttering serial untruths. As Shepard Smith of Fox News said yesterday, Trump "keeps repeating ridiculous throwaway lines that are not true at all."

I know about Twitter from trustworthy sources.

What trustworthy sources? Oh, wait a minute, you answer that question next:

But in my opinion anyone who is half conscious ought to know such things are rigged because we know he's very popular.

And you know he's very popular how?

Actually I agree with you. Trump is very popular. 45% approval is nearly half the country. Presidential approval ratings spend most of their time between 35% and 70%.

Whether someone wants to call an average 45% approval rating good or bad is a personal choice, but you can't argue with the number. It's a fact.

You don't need to "hack" Twitter. The people who run Twitter only have to set the program to put the negative responses at the top. Google does the same kind of thing. It's not that hard to bury the views they dislike and bring their favored views to Page One.

And you know this is happening how?

Yes, I forget that there are people watching and waiting to pounce and went ahead and added a response to another post from the Presidency thread. Sorry about that. I can move that part to another post but that might just add to the confusion.

Please do not foster more confusion by moving text around between posts. No one should be significantly editing messages after they've been posted. The edit feature is for minor fixes/changes, not for wholesale rewrites or addendums. Abusers of the edit privilege can lose it.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 10:35 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 5:47 PM Percy has responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1024
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 21 of 710 (799907)
02-17-2017 3:59 PM


Some issues are interesting like Russian financing of nationalistic groups.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=russia+anti+eu+finan...

Lots of real issues, from respected sources, to look at though.

Perhaps Russia did prefer Trump?

Perhaps Russia is afraid of NATO expansion?

Perhaps Russia was afraid of Hillary?

The outrage at everything Trump is simplistic and counterproductive, but there are some real issues fogged by all the (mainstream media)muddied waters.

What to make of them I don't know.


    
nwr
Member
Posts: 5544
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 22 of 710 (799908)
02-17-2017 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by ooh-child
02-17-2017 12:19 PM


Re: Questioning Faith
Percy, do you think Faith is for real? Sometimes I get the feeling she's just posting this political stuff for grins & giggles.

Yes, she's for real.

There's a sense in which she is completely unreal. But, in the sense that you were asking, she is for real. And there a whole bunch of other Trump supporters who think the same way.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by ooh-child, posted 02-17-2017 12:19 PM ooh-child has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26721
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 23 of 710 (799909)
02-17-2017 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Diomedes
02-17-2017 1:24 PM


Re: Questioning Faith
You've read the Drudge Report "before?"

What's needed is regularly checking out such sites as an antidote to Leftist propaganda.

I'm a Christian, I know Satan is real and that there are people into witchcraft -- there are lots of levels of witchcraft and I've unfortunately had some experience of it myself -- so if someone says Lady Gaga is, or Hillary etc., I know it's possible and I don't dismiss it. I also didn't watch the halftime show to see if I recognize it in the act, so I don't know for sure.

But that's SUCH a small part of Infowars' reports, you pick on that and dismiss the whole show? Typical.

Yes, there are huge conspiracy theories too. Lots of people with lots of money working together. Did you ever listen to the Norman Dodd interview at YouTube on the conspiracy by the big foundations to teach Communism to Americans, that I've mentioned a number of times?

It doesn't take all that security you mention though; all it takes is ridiculing the idea of conspiracies to the point that people like you won't take them seriously.

None of that is what I have in mind in this thread though. Infowars focuses on NEWS STORIES found in a huge variety of sources, NEWS stories; they don't make it up, they take their stuff from the published accounts of the MSM among others. They also have a bunch of good reporters who discuss the news and never mention conspiracies and witchcraft, and a lot of guests with political expertise.

What's even rarer than conspiracies is a delusional mindset. You guys sling that around to explain anything you've been brainwashed into dismissing.

You really need to check in frequently with the sources I listed if you want to understand how Trump supporters think. If you don't like Infowars pick some of the others. Remember, I brought this up because ooh-child accused me of being a troll who is misrepresenting the "alt right," and laughing about it. I know what they think and I agree with the MAIN stuff they say -- I don't agree with EVERYTHING anybody says. And I meant it when I said this stuff makes me cry a lot. What the LEFT says makes me cry every day.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Diomedes, posted 02-17-2017 1:24 PM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Diomedes, posted 02-17-2017 5:50 PM Faith has responded
 Message 30 by Modulous, posted 02-17-2017 6:57 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26721
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 24 of 710 (799910)
02-17-2017 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by caffeine
02-17-2017 1:41 PM


A lot of people in my circle are liberals and leftists too, but that's because they live in blue parts of California. I know Trump supporters but they aren't the closest people in my life, so I have to find my "friends" on the internet and other public sources.

I'm not arguing from my own personal circle of family and friends, I'm arguing from what I see in those public venues, the HUGE support for Trump. Sure it's "plausible" that Trump supporters are in the minority but I know from the election that they aren't. When I see a poll that puts his popularity below 50% I know it's fake. Yes, I just know it. The same way you believe the lower percentages I believe they're fake. You can't prove it, you have to resort to the convoluted reasoning in your post that amounts to nothing. No evidence, no facts. We're both trusting in our intuition.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by caffeine, posted 02-17-2017 1:41 PM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by caffeine, posted 02-18-2017 5:38 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26721
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 25 of 710 (799911)
02-17-2017 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by NoNukes
02-17-2017 1:44 PM


Funny how people here who demand evidence from me can just go on and on about my "[in]ability to separate the chaff from the wheat" as if that were an objective judgment rather than your jaundiced opinion.

Go fly a kite.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by NoNukes, posted 02-17-2017 1:44 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by NoNukes, posted 02-17-2017 7:26 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26721
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 26 of 710 (799912)
02-17-2017 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Percy
02-17-2017 2:42 PM


The 45% is the fake news. We on Trump's side knew it even if the rest of you bought it.

And you know this how?

Exactly the same way YOU "know" it's 45% or less. You trust those sources, I don't trust them. Intuition, personal judgment, who we find believable. You have no evidence, so don't ask me for evidence.

As I said, I agree with you that Trump's approval ratings are not "in the toilet."

So you did. I disagree. I consider 45% ridiculously fake.

Whether someone wants to call an average 45% approval rating good or bad is a personal choice, but you can't argue with the number. It's a fact.

Ha ha. Just as I said. After all the polls saying Hillary was going to win even as Trump racked up the electoral votes on election night, you still believe what the MSM says is "fact?" The MSM has NO credibility with me. The way they spin stories about Trump is so obviously disgustingly biased and you all just eat it up. It's so blatant I am amazed that even liberals swallow it uncritically. No, Trump is right to call them out in his press conferences. They ARE the enemy. Oh yes there is a big conspiracy out there to defeat Trump no matter what they have to resort to, and the media are the major part of it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Percy, posted 02-17-2017 2:42 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Percy, posted 02-18-2017 8:21 AM Faith has responded

    
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 669
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 27 of 710 (799913)
02-17-2017 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
02-17-2017 5:04 PM


Re: Questioning Faith
What's needed is regularly checking out such sites as an antidote to Leftist propaganda.

There is no 'leftist propaganda'. There is only the dissemination of information.

And I am curious: do you watch MSNBC on a regular basis to ensure you are receiving an effective 'antidote' to right wing propaganda?

I'm a Christian, I know Satan is real and that there are people into witchcraft -- there are lots of levels of witchcraft and I've unfortunately had some experience of it myself -- so if someone says Lady Gaga is, or Hillary etc., I know it's possible and I don't dismiss it. I also didn't watch the halftime show to see if I recognize it in the act, so I don't know for sure.

You 'experienced' witchcraft? What happened? Did a Harry Potter enthusiast scare you on Halloween? Or did somebody actually cast a spell on you?

But that's SUCH a small part of Infowars' reports, you pick on that and dismiss the whole show? Typical.

Actually, its a large part. Alex Jones has mentioned it on numerous occasions. And the point is to look at ALL their positions in their entirety. If you refer to some and ignore the others, it is actually you that is cherry picking.

Yes, there are huge conspiracy theories too. Lots of people with lots of money working together. Did you ever listen to the Norman Dodd interview at YouTube on the conspiracy by the big foundations to teach Communism to Americans, that I've mentioned a number of times?

I actually have seen it. I have also seen similar conspiracies relating to the moon landing, 9/11 being an inside job, vaccines causing autism, the New World Order, the Roswell alien landing, the power of crystals and pyramids. And a slew of others. You know what they all have in common? They are horseshit.

Infowars focuses on NEWS STORIES found in a huge variety of sources, NEWS stories; they don't make it up, they take their stuff from the published accounts of the MSM among others

So the inter-dimensional lizard people really are running the New World Order?

What's even rarer than conspiracies is a delusional mindset. You guys sling that around to explain anything you've been brainwashed into dismissing.

quote:
Psychological Projection

Is a defense mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions. Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings.


You really need to check in frequently with the sources I listed if you want to understand how Trump supporters think.

I actually know several Trump supporters. A neighbor of mine is one. You want to know something? They don't think anything like you. In fact, most admit that one of their primary reasons for voting was simply being dis-illusioned by both political parties and they wanted to try something different. They don't believe in sinister plots. They don't believe in conspiracies. They simply were not enamored with the establishment and they viewed Hillary as a flawed candidate. Which by the way, many of us 'liberals' also agreed with.

know what they think and I agree with the MAIN stuff they say -- I don't agree with EVERYTHING anybody says. And I meant it when I said this stuff makes me cry a lot. What the LEFT says makes me cry every day.

May I offer a bit of advice that may come across as being harsh but I am merely stating based on what I am reading between the lines? If you cry 'a lot' and now cry 'every day', please seek professional help because what I suspect is that you are suffering from some form of clinical depression. Once again, I am not saying this to be harsh or judgemental. I am saying this as someone who is pretty perceptive and is seeing evidence of a behavior that I do not believe is healthy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 5:04 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 6:24 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26721
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 28 of 710 (799916)
02-17-2017 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Diomedes
02-17-2017 5:50 PM


Re: Questioning Faith
There is no 'leftist propaganda'. There is only the dissemination of information.

Well, there you have it, sheer fantasy declared to be fact. Whoee.

Witchcraft is a version of Satanism. I've experienced demonic activity. Saul Alinsky dedicated a book to Lucifer. You think that's a joke? I wish it was.

And I am curious: do you watch MSNBC on a regular basis to ensure you are receiving an effective 'antidote' to right wing propaganda?

Oh brother. How does one AVOID MSNBC or any of the leftist media? Google anything you get a liberal source. Yes I follow lots of those headlines. Yes I get PLENTY of leftist input. And I hang out at EvC for pete's sake.

You would dismiss Norman Dodd's testimony as similar to conspiracies about the moon landing? You are NOT worth talking to. Your opinions are worth nothing, and your advice to me is beyond insulting. There is so much in this world to cry about if you don't cry there's something very wrong with you.

Go fly kites with NN.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Diomedes, posted 02-17-2017 5:50 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by NoNukes, posted 02-18-2017 3:11 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26721
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 29 of 710 (799917)
02-17-2017 6:48 PM


Fake news about lawsuits
I can't post on the Trump Presidency thread but sometimes something has to be answered, fake news of course:

jar writes:

Trump named in over fifty lawsuits so far

So far Donald Trump has been named in over 50 Federal case lawsuits in 17 States between being sworn in on January 20th and February 1st.

For Obama the number was 3 while Bill Clinton and G.W. Bush were named in 4.

That is a HUGE number.

Tremendous evidence of how hard the Enemy is working to bring him down.


Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 02-17-2017 8:10 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7537
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 30 of 710 (799918)
02-17-2017 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
02-17-2017 5:04 PM


Re: Questioning Faith
What's even rarer than conspiracies is a delusional mindset. You guys sling that around to explain anything you've been brainwashed into dismissing.

Delusional mindsets are actually quite common. Perhaps 1 in 20 people will suffer psychosis up to about 1 in a 100 who would be categorized as schizophrenic. Add that to the number of delusional for other reasons such as stroke, alcohol abuse, head injury and the frequency goes up. When you consider anorexia the frequency goes up.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 5:04 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 7:01 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

    
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