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Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 361 of 710 (800588)
02-26-2017 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 359 by Faith
02-26-2017 8:19 AM


Videos are inferior to written communication for providing details. They also consume far more bandwidth. The visuals may provide additional information - but this is rarely an advantage.
But if you feel that videos are so good why don't you post the major points from the videos? It isn't unusual for quotes from written sources to be provided with links.
quote:
The videos I've put up are from good sources it seems to me.
Your record is against you on that point. Let us note that when I asked you could provide no reason to think that your sources were any good bringing it down to your own hopelessly poor judgement.
quote:
What motive could anyone have for pretending things are worse than they are?
It is hardly unusual for the Right to blame problems on immigrants - the far Right in particular. Or for them to indulge in dishonesty to do so. It's been pretty much a constant feature for as long as I've known it.
And then we have people trying to stir up hate against Muslims. And people who want to keep refugees out.
So there are pretty obvious motives - and we should expect the Right to indulge them.

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


(3)
Message 362 of 710 (800590)
02-26-2017 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 359 by Faith
02-26-2017 8:19 AM


Faith writes:
There is no good reason to dismiss video evidence as inferior. It can be true or faked just as written evidence can be, and so can statistics.
That is just wrong. Flat out wrong.
Statistics have to be statistically valid. Government statistics are not just random sets of numbers, they're objective and gathered in a scientific way such that their error rates are known and can verified by third parties.
Youtube videos are no better than anecdotes produced by people with agendas.
There is no equivalence at all. None. If you can't tell the difference, you're part of the damn problem.
The reverse has been asked and I gave good reasons; I don't see any good reasons in answer to the opposite question.
You're kidding? Trump got to be president of the USA by lying and making stuff up like the Swedish rapes and the non-existing UK no-go areas. How much more evidence do you need? It's propganda that appeals to the hard of thinking and the bigots that don't know the difference between a story and a fact.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18308
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 363 of 710 (800592)
02-26-2017 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 362 by Tangle
02-26-2017 8:54 AM


Trump and the Authoritarian Christian
Tangle writes:
Trump got to be president of the USA by lying and making stuff up like the Swedish rapes and the non-existing UK no-go areas. How much more evidence do you need? It's propaganda that appeals to the hard of thinking and the bigots that don't know the difference between a story and a fact.
How else do you think Trump got to be president? Analyze the people that voted for him.
The Atlantic writes:
An American strand of authoritarianism may help explain why the thrice-married, foul-mouthed Donald Trump should prove to be so attractive to white Christian evangelicals. As Jerry Falwell Jr. told The New York Times in February, All the social issuestraditional family values, abortionare moot if isis blows up some of our cities or if the borders are not fortified. Rank-and-file evangelicals are trying to save the country, Falwell said. Being saved has a special resonance among evangelicalssaved from sin and damnation, of course, but also saved from the threats and impurities of a corrupt and dangerous world.
This article in The Atlantic is hardly fake journalism. I recommend reading it.
The Mind Of Donald Trump

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


(5)
Message 364 of 710 (800594)
02-26-2017 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by Phat
02-26-2017 9:33 AM


Re: Trump and the Authoritarian Christian
Phat writes:
This article in The Atlantic is hardly fake journalism. I recommend reading it.
The Mind Of Donald Trump
The article, written back in June, has this about 40% of the way down predicting what Trump might be like as president:
quote:
In sum, Donald Trump’s basic personality traits suggest a presidency that could be highly combustible. One possible yield is an energetic, activist president who has a less than cordial relationship with the truth. He could be a daring and ruthlessly aggressive decision maker who desperately desires to create the strongest, tallest, shiniest, and most awesome resultand who never thinks twice about the collateral damage he will leave behind. Tough. Bellicose. Threatening. Explosive.
Bullseye.
--Percy

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18308
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 365 of 710 (800598)
02-26-2017 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 364 by Percy
02-26-2017 9:58 AM


Re: Trump and the Authoritarian Christian
The author of that article, Dan P. McAdams, was interviewed just last month in a followup article. 'He's Going to Continue to Create Chaos'
Some quotes from the second article:
  • I have to admit that when I wrote the piece I did not think he would win the election. If I were writing it today, though, I would stick pretty much with what I wrote, but I would emphasize two things more than I did.
    The first is that I would double down even more on the idea that what you see is what you get when it comes to Trump. The piece starts off with this uneasy sense that Donald Trump is playing a role. I wanted to get behind the mask, but by the end I’m frustrated because there’s a lot less behind the mask than you expect.
  • The second thing I would emphasize more is the theme of authoritarianism. I think what we have seen in the last six monthsand now that he is presidentis that Trump really doesn’t know how, or want, to work within the typical institutional structures of democracy. Like an authoritarian leader, he wants to transcend that and connect directly to the people. He does that through Twitter, by going around the press, or by making it sound as though the world is an extraordinarily dangerous place and positioning himself as a sort of authoritarian leader, savior and strong man who will deliver the country from carnage, to use a word he used in his inaugural address.
    The upcoming State Of The Union address on Tuesday will tell us a bit more of what we (don't) want to know about this populist leader who some equate with Andrew Jackson.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

  • This message is a reply to:
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    jar
    Member (Idle past 416 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    (1)
    Message 366 of 710 (800603)
    02-26-2017 10:56 AM
    Reply to: Message 365 by Phat
    02-26-2017 10:38 AM


    Re: Trump and the Authoritarian Christian
    Phat writes:
    The upcoming State Of The Union address on Tuesday will tell us a bit more of what we (don't) want to know about this populist leader who some equate with Andrew Jackson.
    We need to remember that Andrew Jackson directly disobeyed orders from Congress and the President when he was in the Military, invaded another country without authorization, executed foreign diplomats without due process and while President helped implement a policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide.
    Not sure that is an admirable rsum .

    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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    RAZD
    Member (Idle past 1427 days)
    Posts: 20714
    From: the other end of the sidewalk
    Joined: 03-14-2004


    (1)
    Message 367 of 710 (800605)
    02-26-2017 11:01 AM
    Reply to: Message 359 by Faith
    02-26-2017 8:19 AM


    More violence with immigrants in Germany
    quote:
    Germany hate crime: Nearly 10 attacks a day on migrants in 2016
    Arson attacks on shelters used by asylum seekers are common in Germany
    Nearly 10 attacks were made on migrants in Germany every day in 2016, the interior ministry says.
    A total of 560 people were injured in the violence, including 43 children.
    Three-quarters of the attacks targeted migrants outside of their accommodation, while nearly 1,000 attacks were on housing.
    Chancellor Angela Merkel's decision to open up Germany to people fleeing conflict and persecution has polarised the country and boosted hate crime.
    Germany is struggling with a backlog of asylum applications and there are fears about security following a series of terrorist attacks across Europe.
    But the number of asylum seekers arriving in Germany in 2016 was 280,000, a drop of more than 600,000 from the previous year, following the closure of the Balkan migrant route and an EU deal with Turkey.
    So it seems that immigrants are more in danger than a danger. Similar findings in Sweden, where immigrants are being attacked.
    Do your news sources report these incidents or do they hide them because of some conspiracy agenda?
    Just askin

    we are limited in our ability to understand
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    PaulK
    Member
    Posts: 17825
    Joined: 01-10-2003
    Member Rating: 2.2


    Message 368 of 710 (800609)
    02-26-2017 11:34 AM
    Reply to: Message 359 by Faith
    02-26-2017 8:19 AM


    Videos
    May well be worse than I thought
    How YouTube Serves As The Content Engine Of The Internet’s Dark Side
    And yet there is a mammoth social platform, a cornerstone of the modern internet with more than a billion active users every month, which hosts and even pays for a fathomless stock of bad information, including viral fake news, conspiracy theories, and hate speech of every kind and it’s been held up to virtually no scrutiny: YouTube
    I think that it is quite reasonable to be a little suspicious of YouTube videos, if that is even close to true. A video coming from a responsible news agency might be worth more. But I still prefer text for it's ability to communicate relevant detail and for ease of reference.

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    JonF
    Member (Idle past 190 days)
    Posts: 6174
    Joined: 06-23-2003


    Message 369 of 710 (800611)
    02-26-2017 12:23 PM
    Reply to: Message 348 by Faith
    02-26-2017 5:46 AM


    Re: Galloping disinformation as usual
    It's like the question of why so many here don't seem to object to illegal immigration, or accepting huge numbers of Muslim refugees.
    I. and I suspect everyone else here, object to illegal immigration, or accepting huge numbers of Muslim refugees. Which does not preclude accepting a number of Muslim refugees or showing Christian compassion.
    You are addressing your made-up fantasy.

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    JonF
    Member (Idle past 190 days)
    Posts: 6174
    Joined: 06-23-2003


    (1)
    Message 370 of 710 (800612)
    02-26-2017 12:26 PM
    Reply to: Message 348 by Faith
    02-26-2017 5:46 AM


    Re: Galloping disinformation as usual
    Anecdotes are not statistics.

    This message is a reply to:
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    JonF
    Member (Idle past 190 days)
    Posts: 6174
    Joined: 06-23-2003


    (1)
    Message 371 of 710 (800613)
    02-26-2017 12:26 PM
    Reply to: Message 349 by Faith
    02-26-2017 6:24 AM


    Re: Galloping disinformation as usual
    Anecdotes are not statistics.

    This message is a reply to:
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    JonF
    Member (Idle past 190 days)
    Posts: 6174
    Joined: 06-23-2003


    Message 372 of 710 (800614)
    02-26-2017 12:27 PM
    Reply to: Message 353 by Faith
    02-26-2017 6:57 AM


    Re: Galloping disinformation as usual
    Did you hear the part on that second video where the narrator says There have been been cases where wealthy families have had to give up their homes for refugees?
    a
    Interesting. I didn't see any evidence or specifics. What wealthy families have had to give up their homes for refugees?
    I suspect it's not true.

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    JonF
    Member (Idle past 190 days)
    Posts: 6174
    Joined: 06-23-2003


    Message 373 of 710 (800615)
    02-26-2017 12:29 PM
    Reply to: Message 359 by Faith
    02-26-2017 8:19 AM


    There is no good reason to dismiss video evidence as inferior. It can be true or faked just as written evidence can be, and so can statistics.
    Anecdotes are not statistics.
    Unsupported assertions of unlikely events aare not evidence.

    This message is a reply to:
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    JonF
    Member (Idle past 190 days)
    Posts: 6174
    Joined: 06-23-2003


    Message 374 of 710 (800616)
    02-26-2017 12:31 PM
    Reply to: Message 359 by Faith
    02-26-2017 8:19 AM


    What motive could anyone have for pretending things are worse than they are?
    It's a standard authoritairion technique. Trump uses it all the time. Convince the people that only he can save you from a terrible fate... just give up a few things such as our civil rights.

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    JonF
    Member (Idle past 190 days)
    Posts: 6174
    Joined: 06-23-2003


    (1)
    Message 375 of 710 (800617)
    02-26-2017 12:34 PM
    Reply to: Message 355 by Faith
    02-26-2017 7:02 AM


    Re: Conspiracy theories are rarely reasonable
    I don't doubt there are those even among illegal aliens, but their illegality is still illegality, and there are others who are not so well behaved, which are the ones Trump wants to deport
    That's what he says.
    He's deporting lots of bad people and lots of good people indiscriminately.
    There are laws to be followed to become legal. Why not support those instead of championing the undermining of the nation?
    I have no problem with supporting those laws.
    But there is no evidence of any undermining.
    As for Sweden you're just another of the lying disinformation network.
    Reality is not affected by your opinions.
    Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

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