Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 916,387 Year: 3,644/9,624 Month: 515/974 Week: 128/276 Day: 2/23 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
JonF
Member (Idle past 188 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(2)
Message 376 of 710 (800618)
02-26-2017 12:39 PM


The Shallow State: Forget the conspiracy theories. Something much more dangerous is seeking to gut our government and change the character of our society.
quote:
The shallow state, on the other hand, is unsettling because not only are the signs of it ever more visible but because its influence is clearly growing. It is made scarier still because it not only actively eschews experience, knowledge, relationships, insight, craft, special skills, tradition, and shared values but because it celebrates its ignorance of and disdain for those things. Donald Trump, champion and avatar of the shallow state, has won power because his supporters are threatened by what they don’t understand, and what they don’t understand is almost everything. Indeed, from evolution to data about our economy to the science of vaccines to the threats we face in the world, they reject vast subjects rooted in fact in order to have reality conform to their worldviews. They don’t dig for truth; they skim the media for anything that makes them feel better about themselves. To many of them, knowledge is not a useful tool but a cunning barrier elites have created to keep power from the average man and woman. The same is true for experience, skills, and know-how. These things require time and work and study and often challenge our systems of belief. Truth is hard; shallowness is easy.
Remind you of anybody?

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1425 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(4)
Message 377 of 710 (800620)
02-26-2017 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Faith
02-26-2017 8:19 AM


This might be more down your alley
quote:
DHS Uncovers Massive Plot To Immigrate Here, Establish Multi-Generation Families, ...

It's terrible what they are doing, such long range planning.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Faith, posted 02-26-2017 8:19 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by Porosity, posted 02-26-2017 2:16 PM RAZD has replied

  
Porosity
Member (Idle past 2114 days)
Posts: 158
From: MT, USA
Joined: 06-15-2013


Message 378 of 710 (800621)
02-26-2017 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 377 by RAZD
02-26-2017 1:54 PM


Re: This might be more down your alley
WTF? They could have done the same video with the Irish, Italians, Jews, Chine's..etc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by RAZD, posted 02-26-2017 1:54 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by RAZD, posted 02-26-2017 3:49 PM Porosity has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 379 of 710 (800622)
02-26-2017 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Faith
02-26-2017 8:19 AM


There is no good reason to dismiss video evidence as inferior.
A few people saying some things is probably of less value than the collated statements from all law enforcement. The latter results in statistics. The former is prone to an individual's bias.
Given the fact that there is too much good reason for the statistics to be faked to save face for Sweden, I would take that as weight added to my side.
Given the fact there is too much good reason for the videos to be faked to validate the right-wing narrative over fears of immigration, it's at best a wash.
The videos I've put up are from good sources it seems to me.
Let's take a look again then, shall we?
"Sweden Before And After Mass Immigration" by Blot-Sven Odenskarl
It shows peaceful traditional practices contrasted with scenes of violence. It doesn't give any idea on how many scenes of violence there were before, nor does it comment on the peaceful traditional practices that still go on today in Sweden. It has no probative value.
"The Rape of Sweden", Feminist Infrequency
Cites '55' areas so bad they are on a black list. They're poor areas which are high crime rates.
Calls Peter Larsson a 'police chief' when in fact, he's a beat officer.
Lars Frstell, police spokesman says there is 'nothing special about right now', dismisses as unevidenced that this is related to refugees and indeed, points to gang violence in Sweden going back to 2008 - even back to the 90s.
There is no such thing {as no go zones}, says Erik kerlund - an actual police chief - there are areas where the police focus their efforts due to high crime.
Strangely he says most applicants are young unmarried unaccompanied males, not the women and children the 'media' would have you believe - but then shows images of refugees who are largely women and children.
The name of his channel gives away his origins. The channel being created to 'counter' Anita Sarkeesian of Feminist Frequency. Why are so many of these videos associated with misogynists and gamer-gate bros?
"Welcome to Sweden" - Angry Foreigner
'Angry Foreigner' is a Bosnian immigrant - he came to Sweden when his Muslim parents moved there with him as a child in the 90s. He also hates feminists. Enough said.
"The Truth About Sweden" - Paul Joseph Watson
Issues a challenge to lefties to visit Sweden themselves. I haven't, but I've had one friend who has been there 3 times this year, and another who goes there every other year or. They say it's lovely.
Paul Joseph Watson is the credulous gullible fool that swallowed Fake News a while back, and published it on InfoWars - without asking for any evidence or validating his source (who admits it was a prank).
He also released a video called 'The Male Backlash Against Toxic Women' about a 'lifestyle optimisation program' that
1) Understanding 'game' and the true nature of women
2) Self-improvement - to be more independent to 'boost their sexual market value' making it easier to attract women
3) Weightlifting
3) {Yes there are two number 3s} - Lifestyle optimisation
3) {actually there three number 3s} Rejecting dependency
This requires 'high levels of testosterone'. You see women don't need men because of the welfare state. Women have become like men and 'sleep around' with 'bad boys' instead of committing to a 'nice guy'. This explains why neomasculinists have to manipulate women which is why 'pick up artists' are more popular than ever before.
Basically he's bitter because he's an arsehole that thinks he isn't an arsehole and women don't like him.
So what about his video on Sweden? It regurgitates many of the same claims already made a dozen times. It mentions Malmo as the 'Chicago of Sweden' and how its murder rate is higher than....Paris. Oh. And its also less than 1/7th of Chicago. Hrm. Yeah, this guy is...an unreliable reporter.
"What They're NOT Telling You About Sweden " - Paul Joseph Watson
Same guy so not wasting too much time on this one
"Sweden's Migrant Rape Epidemic" - Gatestone Institute
Gatestone Institute of course has been linked to numerous false fear-mongering about Islam. What do they say? Apparently they don't have access to the numbers, but there must be a rape epidemic caused by immigrants because the Daily Mail says so. That's it? Oh no, the Daily Caller too.
Yeah, there may be truths about what is happening in Sweden, but these sources are not the kind of analysts I'll rely on to get at them, I think.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Faith, posted 02-26-2017 8:19 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 380 of 710 (800624)
02-26-2017 3:33 PM


Not an honest fair assessment from the lot of you.
There is enough information in the videos to make a STRONG SUGGESTION that immigration is causing huge problems, to put it as conservatively as I can.
The people making the videos are very credible. It takes some kind of poisoned prejudice to see them otherwise. (Paul Joseph Watson by the way gets millions of views of his video reports, not what you'd expect from a conspiracy thinker. Infowars gets almost as many)/
I for one would be greatly relieved to think immigration was NOT a big problem and if I feel that way I think other pro-Trumpers must also. There is no need to feed our fears with propaganda. And it's so CLEARLY NOT what is being done you all just prove again, as you always do, that it's the Leftist "narrative" that has you captivated, truth be hanged. Not one word in favor from any of you. Truly an alternate universe is EvC.
I do have to wonder: Is all this Leftist claptrap "the great delusion" the Bible promises us in the last days?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 381 by PaulK, posted 02-26-2017 3:47 PM Faith has replied
 Message 384 by JonF, posted 02-26-2017 3:51 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 389 by JonF, posted 02-26-2017 4:00 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 397 by Modulous, posted 02-26-2017 4:37 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 381 of 710 (800628)
02-26-2017 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 380 by Faith
02-26-2017 3:33 PM


quote:
Not an honest fair assessment from the lot of you.
By which you mean that you don't like honest fair assessments.
quote:
The people making the videos are very credible. It takes some kind of poisoned prejudice to see them otherwise. (Paul Joseph Watson by the way gets millions of views of his video reports, not what you'd expect from a conspiracy thinker. Infowars gets almost as many)/
Infowars IS a conspiracy theory site so your argument is rather self-defeating. Anyway there is no reason why conspiracy theories can't get lots of views.
quote:
I for one would be greatly relieved to think immigration was NOT a big problem and if I feel that way I think other pro-Trumpers must also.
Then why are you swallowing these videos hook line and sinker - to the point of making up conspiracy theories to explain away the evidence to the contrary ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by Faith, posted 02-26-2017 3:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 383 by Faith, posted 02-26-2017 3:50 PM PaulK has replied
 Message 385 by Faith, posted 02-26-2017 3:55 PM PaulK has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1425 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 382 of 710 (800630)
02-26-2017 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by Porosity
02-26-2017 2:16 PM


Re: This might be more down your alley
he he
it's the onion ... proving once again that it is difficult to mock conservatives without seeming like a believable conservative argument some wingnut endorses.
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Porosity, posted 02-26-2017 2:16 PM Porosity has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 383 of 710 (800631)
02-26-2017 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 381 by PaulK
02-26-2017 3:47 PM


Why do you think videos are my only source of information? They happen to be handy things to post. But I get the basic information from at least half a dozen audio sources and even some print sources although my eyes suffer from that. You guys are under a terrible spell. I hope you come out of it, but there isn't much sign of such a wonderful possibility.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by PaulK, posted 02-26-2017 3:47 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 386 by JonF, posted 02-26-2017 3:57 PM Faith has replied
 Message 390 by PaulK, posted 02-26-2017 4:02 PM Faith has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 188 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 384 of 710 (800632)
02-26-2017 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 380 by Faith
02-26-2017 3:33 PM


Not an honest fair assessment from the lot of you.
Not a shred of evidence of dishonesty from you.
If that's all the information we had they would be. But we have lots of more reliable and scientific information. For which you have no response except for the standard giant conspiracy that is so secretive there is no reason whatsoever to believe it exists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by Faith, posted 02-26-2017 3:33 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 385 of 710 (800635)
02-26-2017 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 381 by PaulK
02-26-2017 3:47 PM


Infowars is a great source of true information, including some of the conspiracies. Not all of them, I disagree with some of them. Not that you care. And they are mostly libertarians, which I'm not. You just wipe it all out because one or two topics bug you. They have great reporters,l great interviews and great topics. Alex Jones himself can be a wild man sometimes but I like him too, even though I would probably choose to post others from his site because they are less wild.l
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by PaulK, posted 02-26-2017 3:47 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 387 by PaulK, posted 02-26-2017 3:58 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 394 by RAZD, posted 02-26-2017 4:08 PM Faith has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 188 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 386 of 710 (800636)
02-26-2017 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 383 by Faith
02-26-2017 3:50 PM


Why do you think videos are my only source of information?
Because you have not mentioned any other sources in thousands of words you've written.
But, sure, present your other sources. Claiming you have evidence but not presenting it is pointless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by Faith, posted 02-26-2017 3:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 388 by Faith, posted 02-26-2017 3:59 PM JonF has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 387 of 710 (800637)
02-26-2017 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 385 by Faith
02-26-2017 3:55 PM


quote:
Infowars is a great source of true information, including some of the conspiracies. Not all of them, I disagree with some of them.
As we have seen it is a hopelessly unreliable site. They carried that silly "inventor of email" story for one more.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 385 by Faith, posted 02-26-2017 3:55 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 388 of 710 (800638)
02-26-2017 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 386 by JonF
02-26-2017 3:57 PM


That wasn't the point. Sigh. ALL OF IT adds up to the same information, that was the point.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by JonF, posted 02-26-2017 3:57 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 392 by JonF, posted 02-26-2017 4:05 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 188 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 389 of 710 (800639)
02-26-2017 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 380 by Faith
02-26-2017 3:33 PM


Paul Joseph Watson by the way gets millions of views of his video reports, not what you'd expect from a conspiracy thinker. Infowars gets almost as many)
Number of views is not evidence for truth or falsehood. Personally I am not surprised that looney-tunes sites are garnering millions of hits in today's climate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by Faith, posted 02-26-2017 3:33 PM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 390 of 710 (800640)
02-26-2017 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 383 by Faith
02-26-2017 3:50 PM


quote:
Why do you think videos are my only source of information?
I have no idea why you would ask that question. I certainly haven't made any such claim. The fact is, however, that the videos are the only thing you are offering as evidence and they are pretty poor. (I know you object to that, but as I said - you don't like fair honest assessments of your sources)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by Faith, posted 02-26-2017 3:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 391 by Faith, posted 02-26-2017 4:04 PM PaulK has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024