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Author Topic:   Extremism. Where is the logic?
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


(1)
Message 5 of 24 (800928)
03-02-2017 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
03-02-2017 3:29 AM


Re: I Stand For The Working Class...
Phat writes:
quote:
The reason I oppose the far left is because I disagree with forced government regulation to an excessive degree.
Couple of things:
1) You have an unstated assumption: That you're being forced.
You're not. You agreed to the social contract when you accepted citizenship in this country. If you don't like the social contract, you have many options: You can change your mind and learn to like it, you can dislike it and merely gripe about it, you can work to change it (we have these things called "elections"...perhaps you've heard of them?) you can ignore them and pay the penalty for doing so, or you can leave.
But you are not being "forced" in any way. You agreed to the constitutional mandate our government has to engage in these programs when you agreed to be a citizen.
This is Libertarian claptrap and that way lies madness.
2) You seem to want all the benefits without any of the responsibilities. You want the feels of doing right by others without actually having to do anything to, you know, do right by them. Notice how quickly you dismiss this very point:
a case could be made that its the only way that adequate charity for the poor will ever occur.
Social Security is the most successful anti-poverty program this country has ever seen. It is proof positive that government action is sometimes the only thing that works.
Again, this is Libertarian claptrap and that way lies madness.
quote:
I'll decide whether or not to rebuild the infrastructure
No, WE will decide whether or not to rebuild the infrastructure. You seem to be confused, thinking that you are an island and that you and you alone get to choose. Instead, we live in a democracy and we get to determine how we will support our collective needs. It's right there in that Constitution that you hear so many people claiming to revere: We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
What did you think that meant? Again, going back to my first point: If you don't like the social contract that you signed by accepting citizenship, you have many options: You can work to change it, ignore it and accept the consequences, or leave.
quote:
I am against excessive inheritance taxes, but would not mind seeing them on estates over one million dollars.
You do understand that the current amount for which tax on inheritance starts is $5.45M, yes? That it will be $5.49M next year? That the average rate is only 16.5%?
And that this affects only about 11,000 estates? Of which only about 5,200 are taxable? And that of those 11,000, only about 1,000 are regarding businesses/farms of which only about 370 are taxable?
This leads to a question: Why is this such a prominent issue? Who told you that it was a problem? I'm reminded of a similar question: Who told you that you were naked? The current tax policy only affects people earning more than 5 times what you think should be the threshold and affects a miniscule portion of the population.
But to your original question: It's just a variation on tribalism.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 03-02-2017 3:29 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


(2)
Message 12 of 24 (801287)
03-04-2017 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
03-03-2017 11:14 AM


Re: I Stand For The Working Class...
Faith writes:
quote:
wealth is actually created by people who build enterprises.
And who do you think those people are?
People like Trump who simply owns a name?
Or the people who actually built the hotel that has his name on it?
Wealth is created by labor, not capital. Capital needs labor in order to be used to create wealth.
Labor, in the end, doesn't need capital. Oh, capital makes it easier, yes, but labor is all that is required.
quote:
The more that gets created the more there is to go around in the shole society
Not if the people who have it don't spend it. That's the stupidity of thinking tax cuts will help the economy. For the past 30+ years, the Reaganite philosophy that the wealthy will "trickle down" the wealth has been shown to be false: Despite the fact that productivity has tripled, all of the gains from that increase in productivity has gone to the wealthiest. Wages are flat and wealth has not increased for the bottom.
They were the ones who created the wealth.
And it was stolen from them by those who didn't create it.
quote:
that's why America became so prosperous in the first place
No, American didn't really become prosperous until after the Great Depression when we started implementing "socialist" economic policies like unions, Social Security, Medicare, etc. It's why the poverty rate for the elderly was 90% until then.
quote:
And generally those who have a lot give a lot.
Showing a severe lack of understanding regarding economics.
And your own Bible that you claim to hold so dear:
Mark 12:
12:41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
12:42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
12:43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
12:44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
Your own holy man contradicts you regarding this, Faith. The fact that you "give a lot" means nothing if you already have a lot. The question is not the mere amount of what you give.
It's whether your are giving "enough."
quote:
One major problem with socialism is that it stifles the motivation to build enterprises and create wealth
So England, Germany, Japan, and France are all "stifled"? Strange how their economies seem to be doing fairly well.
How can that be given their socialistic economic policies?
Did you just confuse socialism for communism?
quote:
it makes everybody poor.
Strange how Scandinavia, one of the most "socialist" regions on the planet, is so wealthy.
Maybe you should stop reading all those conservative books on economics.
They are lying to you.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 03-03-2017 11:14 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 03-04-2017 9:53 PM Rrhain has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 23 of 24 (801428)
03-06-2017 6:22 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
03-04-2017 9:53 PM


Re: LaRe: I Stand For The Working Class...
Faith responds to me:
quote:
quote:
Did you just confuse socialism for communism?
...
Scandinavia is of course an unusual case. Go with the USSR or Communist China.
So yes, you did. You just confused socialism for communism and despite that warning that the two are not the same, you did it again.
No, Scandinavia is not unusual. It's actually typical. It's why the socialist countries have better standards of living for their populations than we do. They have better healthcare, longer lifespans, better education, less crime, etc., etc.
That said, do you not read your own words?
quote:
I said I don't understand a lot about money
And that fact hasn't guided you on whether or not you should speak on the subject? You know you are ignorant on the subject and you think you have something useful to say? After all, you are not merely trying to learn. You are making declarations and refusing to pay attention to reality because it contradicts the false information you hold dear.
For example:
quote:
it is the enterprise that creates the wealth
Nope.
It's labor.
Capital and enterprise help to make the labor easier and more efficient, they help to make the fruits of that labor more valuable, but they don't create wealth. The only thing that creates wealth is labor.
You can have a beautiful piece of canvas, the finest paints and brushes, and an amazing model, but the only way the picture is going to get painted is for the artist to use their labor to paint it.
quote:
Wage-earners can't create wealth
On the contrary. They are the only ones who can.
quote:
Good employers take good care of their workers.
Yep. Can you think of why?
Hint: What would happen to the employer if all the employees left? Exactly how does the company survive if there is nobody to do the work?

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 03-04-2017 9:53 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by RAZD, posted 03-06-2017 8:17 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
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