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Author Topic:   Extremism. Where is the logic?
jar
Member
Posts: 29017
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 16 of 24 (801324)
03-05-2017 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
03-05-2017 7:11 AM


Re: LaRe: I Stand For The Working Class...
Faith writes:

But wasn't the wealth before capitalism all in the hands of feudal lords, who didn't get it by enterprise but by conquest? Capitalism does benefit the whole society in a way the feudal system of course did not. I'm certainly not arguing that capitalism is some kind of perfection if completely uncontrolled by law because it can be exploitative too, and it can be used against the people too, as Soros' billions are being used.

In one short period that was the case. Then the Capitalists replaced the feudal lords and hired armed thugs to support their efforts to acquire the wealth.

BUT there was wealth before all that as well.

But so far no one has shown any examples of Soros using his billions against the people. That is just made up.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 03-05-2017 7:11 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 03-05-2017 7:31 AM jar has responded
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 03-05-2017 8:17 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25265
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 17 of 24 (801326)
03-05-2017 7:31 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
03-05-2017 7:26 AM


Re: LaRe: I Stand For The Working Class...
Please be more specific. I don't recall a period of Capitalism defended by Thugs. When and where was that? And all the wealth created prior to modern times seems to me fits the feudal model, at least the model of the wealth all belonging to the ruling class and the rest of the tribe or nation living in poverty.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 03-05-2017 7:26 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29017
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 18 of 24 (801330)
03-05-2017 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
03-05-2017 7:31 AM


Re: LaRe: I Stand For The Working Class...
Faith writes:

Please be more specific. I don't recall a period of Capitalism defended by Thugs. When and where was that? And all the wealth created prior to modern times seems to me fits the feudal model, at least the model of the wealth all belonging to the ruling class and the rest of the tribe or nation living in poverty.

Sheesh. Have you ever read the Bible Faith? Did folk not own flocks, have gardens, was there not trade between nations?

And do you really know nothing about US history? Didn't you even study the Battle of Blair Mountain or the Ford Massacre or the Greensboro Massacre or the Honea Path Massacre or any of the literally hundreds of such examples in the US alone when you were in grade school.

Why are these things not commonly taught in school? Asking why Extremism and right there is the answer.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Faith
Member
Posts: 25265
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 19 of 24 (801334)
03-05-2017 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
03-05-2017 7:26 AM


Soros superfunder of Leftist Politics
Soros' political manipulations are well known, the evidence being mostly the causes he funds, the political issues and the politicians he donates to. He's considered by some to be the owner of the Democratic Party.

Obama's master George Soros supporting America's Enemies At Home and Abroad

defense cuts 4 and was instrumental in the Obama policy change permitting open homosexuals in the Armed Forces of the United States. Our analysis shows that CAP is one of the top 15 organizations supported financially by the Soros-funded Open Society Institute (OSI).

The leading recipient of Soros money is the ACLU, which is so extreme that it favors the legalization of all drugs, even heroin and crack cocaine, and opposes virtually all measures taken to curtail drug use. In another example of its extremist approach, the group has rejected funds from the Ford and Rockefeller Foundations, and participation in the Combined Federal Campaign, because acceptance of the money would require adopting measures to make sure it does not employ terrorists or support terrorist activity.

Soros hired Aryeh Neier as president of his Open Society Institute (OSI) in 1993. Neier had worked for the ACLU for 15 years, including eight as national director.

In his book, Taking Liberties: Four Decades in the Struggle for Rights, Neier talks about his role in creating the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), the same group that would eventually spawn the terrorist Weather Underground...

This is one of those sites that get hard on my eyes after some reading so I'm not able to read it carefully but I got through most of it. Here's another section:

Financing the Progressive Movement
Soros is, in the jargon of the left, a “fat cat” — perhaps the biggest fat cat of all time. And his funding recipients constitute a who’s who of the left, including the extreme left. These are the forces in society that want to see more government control over the private sector. However, their agenda is economic, social, and global.

This “fat cat” supports the causes embraced by the organizations he bankrolls. These include drug legalization, strengthening the United Nations, opposition to the death penalty, euthanasia, tax increases (including a global tax), immigrant rights, prisoner rights, feminism, abortion rights, and homosexual rights.

One notices that Soros finances the establishment of a number of “rights” that have never been self-evident or God-given rights under the American system. This reflects the influence of Soros’s mentor, philosopher Karl Popper, a communist in his youth who writings were later adopted as a basis for “democratic socialism” and the notion that government can bestow rights and manipulate the transformation of society on a gradual basis. Popper thought this approach would make Marxism’s emphasis on the alleged inevitable historical process and violent revolution unnecessary.

One right that he does not favor — the right to life from conception to natural death — is neutralized and undermined by his financial support for “abortion rights” and the “right to die.” His now-defunct $45 million “Project on Death in America” was used to promote euthanasia and assisted suicide.

Calvina Fay of the Drug Free America Foundation calls Soros an “extremely evil person” because of his support for and financing of drug legalization groups. Writer Jeffrey Kuhner called him the “21st Century Lenin” because of his extreme left-wing agenda.
Soros ignored most of the attacks until, in November 2010, Glenn Beck used his Fox News channel program to present an in-depth look at “the Puppet Master” and “one of the most powerful forces in the Progressive Movement.” The scrutiny led to a backlash against Fox News from Soros and his supporters, leading to Beck’s departure from the channel. One of the groups attacking Beck was Media Matters, recipient of $1 million from Soros.

Soros had justified his money to Media Matters by saying in an October 20, 2010 statement:

Media Matters is one of the few groups that attempts to hold Fox News accountable for the false and misleading information they so often broadcast. I am supporting Media Matters in an effort to more widely publicize the challenge Fox News poses to civil and informed discourse in our democracy.

Interestingly this talks about his financing of Media Matters, which I'd said somewhere recently I'd read belonged to him. It may not belong to him but clearly he is behind it with his money.

I hadn't known Popper was a Communist, so that was interesting to me.

I consider Soros' use of his billions for leftist and globalist causes to be using it "against the people."

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 03-05-2017 7:26 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 03-05-2017 9:02 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 21 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-05-2017 9:11 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29017
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 20 of 24 (801336)
03-05-2017 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
03-05-2017 8:17 AM


Re: Soros superfunder of Leftist Politics
Faith writes:

I consider Soros' use of his billions for leftist and globalist causes to be using it "against the people."

No one doubts that you consider things that way however that has absolutely nothing to do with reality.

This is the US Faith and the Super Conservative Supreme Court we have all been living under until the recent death created a neutral court has decreed that money is a form of Free Speech. Therefore what you describe can not only not be against the people it is a Constitutionally Protected Act.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15934
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 21 of 24 (801340)
03-05-2017 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
03-05-2017 8:17 AM


Re: Soros superfunder of Leftist Politics
So, all this whining about the Evil Jew and his Jew Gold is supported by what actual evidence, please?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 03-05-2017 8:17 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Modulous
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Posts: 7407
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 22 of 24 (801341)
03-05-2017 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
03-05-2017 7:11 AM


Re: LaRe: I Stand For The Working Class...
But wasn't the wealth before capitalism all in the hands of feudal lords, who didn't get it by enterprise but by conquest?

No. Conquest was expensive at best paid for itself through theft or 'sacking', often that was insufficient. The peasants and artisans would produce food and goods, sell them in trade, and Feudal Lords would tax them in exchange for infrastructure investments, keeping the peace, protecting trade routes etc.

It was the people making things that created the wealth. They took raw materials (seeds and soil, metal, wood etc) and turned them into something more valuable than they were before the labour was added.

Feudal Lords added value by inhibiting banditry, raiding and thus stabilising trade etc. They did this, in part, by paying a specialist who didn't create or make anything - the soldier.

Capitalism does benefit the whole society in a way the feudal system of course did not.

Capitalism was born when people who were Feudal Lords in name, decided to start lending money and borrowing money tactically for investments (such as purchasing bulk raw materials from overseas such as silk) and ignoring usury regulations which the Christian and Muslim Feudal Lords were constraining themselves with.

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6098
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 23 of 24 (801428)
03-06-2017 6:22 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
03-04-2017 9:53 PM


Re: LaRe: I Stand For The Working Class...
Faith responds to me:

quote:
quote:
Did you just confuse socialism for communism?

...
Scandinavia is of course an unusual case. Go with the USSR or Communist China.

So yes, you did. You just confused socialism for communism and despite that warning that the two are not the same, you did it again.

No, Scandinavia is not unusual. It's actually typical. It's why the socialist countries have better standards of living for their populations than we do. They have better healthcare, longer lifespans, better education, less crime, etc., etc.

That said, do you not read your own words?

quote:
I said I don't understand a lot about money

And that fact hasn't guided you on whether or not you should speak on the subject? You know you are ignorant on the subject and you think you have something useful to say? After all, you are not merely trying to learn. You are making declarations and refusing to pay attention to reality because it contradicts the false information you hold dear.

For example:

quote:
it is the enterprise that creates the wealth

Nope.

It's labor.

Capital and enterprise help to make the labor easier and more efficient, they help to make the fruits of that labor more valuable, but they don't create wealth. The only thing that creates wealth is labor.

You can have a beautiful piece of canvas, the finest paints and brushes, and an amazing model, but the only way the picture is going to get painted is for the artist to use their labor to paint it.

quote:
Wage-earners can't create wealth

On the contrary. They are the only ones who can.

quote:
Good employers take good care of their workers.

Yep. Can you think of why?

Hint: What would happen to the employer if all the employees left? Exactly how does the company survive if there is nobody to do the work?


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 03-04-2017 9:53 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 18653
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


(2)
Message 24 of 24 (801440)
03-06-2017 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Rrhain
03-06-2017 6:22 AM


Co-op companies Stand For The Working Class...
Hint: What would happen to the employer if all the employees left? Exactly how does the company survive if there is nobody to do the work?

Hint #2: What would happen if the employer left and the employees elected managers?

quote:
Meet Bob & Charlee
They founded Bob’s Red Mill together as a labor of love.

Proudly Employee-Owned

Just imagine showing up for work one day as a company employee and leaving as an owner. That dream came true for the employees at Bob’s Red Mill on Bob’s 81st birthday. Rather than receiving gifts, he decided to give his greatest gift away—his business. Bob surprised all his employees by giving them total ownership of Bob's Red Mill through an Employee Stock Ownership Program (ESOP).


OMG the workers own the means of production .... it's a Marxist commie plot!!!!! RUN!!!

There are lots of successful employee owned companies.

This is actually a logical end to unions, and to democracy being implemented throughout society, replacing the aristocratic/feudal model of management with a democratic model of management.

We fought a revolutionary war to end the aristocratic/feudal government of this country. Why should we tolerate businesses operating like aristocratic/feudal governments?

Enjoy


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This message is a reply to:
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