Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 107 (8805 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 12-11-2017 8:17 AM
348 online now:
frako, Joe T, kjsimons, PaulK, Percy (Admin), Pressie, RAZD, Tangle (8 members, 340 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: jaufre
Post Volume:
Total: 824,009 Year: 28,615/21,208 Month: 681/1,847 Week: 56/475 Day: 3/53 Hour: 0/1

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
2425
26
2728
...
64NextFF
Author Topic:   The Totalitarian Leftist Tactics against the Right
Phat
Member
Posts: 10222
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 376 of 960 (802667)
03-19-2017 4:16 AM
Reply to: Message 374 by Faith
03-19-2017 2:20 AM


Re: Rapture
faith writes:

Here's the thing: It has come to look like living through the worsening times we live in could be as bad as going through the Tribulation. I can't wish either on anybody, but choosing between them has become difficult.

The main difference being that there will be no Holy Spirit around during the tribulation, while we DO have that blessing now.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by Faith, posted 03-19-2017 2:20 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 386 by Faith, posted 03-19-2017 11:51 AM Phat has responded

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6208
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 377 of 960 (802693)
03-19-2017 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 343 by New Cat's Eye
03-16-2017 10:28 AM


Re: The racism is all coming from the Left
New Cat's Eye responds to me:

quote:
quote:
Why bring up "bigoted thoughts"?

I was saying that's what the law is *not* for.


And nobody ever said or even implied that it was. In fact, those who fight for the law go out of their way to denounce any attempt to use the law to police anybody's thoughts.

So why bring up "bigoted thoughts"?

You're the one who brought it up. You're the one who needs to explain why you did. Suppose we're having a discussion about quantum physics. You then complain that it doesn't explain the use of the preterit in Spanish.

Well, of course it doesn't. Nobody said it did. Nobody even implied that it did. So why would you bring it up if you didn't think it had something to do with it?

Nobody brought up "bigoted thoughts." Nobody said the law could do anything about them. Nobody even implied that it did. So why would you bring it up if you didn't think it had something to do with it?

quote:
There I was talking about the Obama guidelines for Title IX.

Ah, you misquote yourself. Here's what you said:

I think looking to the feds to provide you with how to think about something is pretty totalitarian.

Emphasis added.

You will note that whether or not you were discussing Title IX is irrelevant since Title IX doesn't have anything to do with how you think. And yet, here you are complaining about how the government is "providing you with how to think."

So once again, we have to wonder: Why did you bring it up? Nothing in Title IX is about how you think. It doesn't even hint that it has anything to do with it. It avoids the topic of thought altogether. So why would you bring it up unless you thought it had something to do with it?

quote:
That people were freaking out when they were rescinded looks like they were upset that the feds weren't telling them how to think anymore.

No, it didn't.

It looked like they were upset that people like Gavin Grimm would no longer have the protection of the law. And, indeed, there is a very real chance that he won't. The SCOTUS just kicked his case back down to the lower court precisely and specifically because of the new guidelines.

The guidelines didn't tell anybody how to think. It said that Title IX includes transgender individuals with regard to protections based on sex.

Now, you say that Title IX does that already. How is that not telling people how to think while an express statement that Title IX applies to trans is?

quote:
That, to me, seems totalitarian in nature.

Huh? If we just assume it to be true, it's not "totalitarian" but if we expressly describe what we mean, it is?

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

So, rather than me being "so wrong about what you think that it's too much," the reality is that I have you pegged.

So, of course, you run away, trying to say that when you talked about the government "providing you with how to think," you weren't talking about the government, you know, "providing you with how to think."

Keep digging.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-16-2017 10:28 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 392 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2017 2:37 PM Rrhain has not yet responded

    
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6208
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 378 of 960 (802694)
03-19-2017 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 346 by New Cat's Eye
03-17-2017 9:25 AM


Re: The racism is all coming from the Left
New Cat's Eye writes:

quote:
It's like if we were coworkers and every time we had a minor disagreement about something you ran to the boss to get them to implement a decision so you could force me to comply with your way.

That's how adults behave.

If there's a conflict, we seek to have it resolved, yes? After all, we shouldn't resort to violence, right? We need to have some sort of way to adjudicate which one of us shall prevail.

And if we as a society don't like the way that decision came down, we can petition the government to change the way such conflicts are resolved.

Of course, this leads to the question: Was Trump also "totalitarian" in his rescinding of the guidance that Title IX applies to trans people? After all, it was because of those guidelines that Grimm's case was likely to prevail...at which time the bigots "ran to the boss to get them to implement a decision so they could force us to comply with their way."

Shouldn't you be upset that Trump rescinded the guidelines?

quote:
It's that approach of running to and using an authority to force your dissenters into compliance rather than working with them and coming to an agreement that I find distasteful.

Libertarian claptrap, as usual.

So you don't like democracy. Because you've just described how democracy works: We as a society make a decision. If you don't like that decision, you are free to try and persuade others so that we can use that authority to change our minds.

Exactly how do you think you can resolve a conflict without at some point "forcing a dissenter into compliance"?

We can't both eat the cookie. Someone's going to have to be "forced" to give it up and let the other eat it.

Who makes that decision when neither is willing to relent? What do we do when we see that our guidelines for making that decision violate other principles that we hold dear?

Or do you not have any responsibilities under the social contract you purposefully and willfully signed when you agreed to citizenship?


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-17-2017 9:25 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10222
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


(2)
Message 379 of 960 (802696)
03-19-2017 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by jar
03-06-2017 9:40 AM


Re: Political Correctness
A country is judged by its leader. Whenever I think of N.Korea I think of that little fat dictator who used to like NBA Basketball.....so I judge the collective attitude of the people through that lens. When I judged Iraq, I looked at Saddam Hussein...same with Iran and Abdojenadab. Russia and Putin....forgive my ignorance...this is how I see these countries...because the people follow the leader.

Obama was a great leader for America...politics notwithstanding. People all over the world began to see some hope that our nation was progressing towards better treatment of all people...granted we sent too many drones and fought too many wars, but the attitude was helped due to Obama. Trump, in contrast, represents the worst possible stereotype that oppressed people see---a rich, white,arrogant narcissist who wants to make the empire great again.

He is a bad advertisement not only for business but for peace.

Thats my take on it all, anyway.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by jar, posted 03-06-2017 9:40 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16293
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(3)
Message 380 of 960 (802698)
03-19-2017 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by Faith
03-19-2017 1:47 AM


Re: witchcraft among other attacks on Trump
Faith writes:

...the way Trump has been treated since he took office is absolutely unprecedented in American politics.

It might well be unprecedented. The absence of any honeymoon period is certainly unprecedented in my memory, which goes back to Nixon. But Trump has brought it all upon himself:

  • He accused the mainstream press of being "fake news" at his very first press conference.
  • He insulted the Australian prime minister.
  • He claimed his inauguration crowds were the largest ever then fought with the press about it.
  • He caused chaos around the world with an ill-thought out and conceived refugee travel ban.
  • He disparaged NATO.
  • He withdrew from trade agreements and is threatening free trade around the globe.
  • He removed LBGT protections.
  • He frightened non-citizens around the country, green card or not. Illegals are fleeing.
  • He's is in the process of taking away health insurance from millions.
  • He's rolling back environmental protections.
  • He tweeted unsupported allegations about wiretapping by his predecessor and refused to drop the claim.

And this is just what I can remember at the moment. Naturally any president acting so much like a noxious nut case is going to forfeit his honeymoon period.

By the way, what happened to that claim about the size of the inauguration crowds? No more mention of that. Trump feels safe in making one outrageous and untrue claim after another because he knows he can bury them just by making more outrageous and untrue claims.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Faith, posted 03-19-2017 1:47 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 381 by jar, posted 03-19-2017 9:50 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 390 by NoNukes, posted 03-20-2017 1:22 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29748
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 381 of 960 (802699)
03-19-2017 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 380 by Percy
03-19-2017 9:40 AM


Re: witchcraft among other attacks on Trump
Percy writes:

By the way, what happened to that claim about the size of the inauguration crowds? No more mention of that. Trump feels safe in making one outrageous and untrue claim after another because he knows he can bury them just by making more outrageous and untrue claims.

Trump fully and accurately understands his support base. As he said way back in January, "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters." He understands that his support base is totally disconnected with reality when it comes to evaluating his performance. He can lie with impunity and take away their health care and their on the job safety and destroy the air they breath and the water they drink and the schools their kids attend and they will still support him.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by Percy, posted 03-19-2017 9:40 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10115
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 382 of 960 (802703)
03-19-2017 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 373 by Faith
03-19-2017 1:56 AM


Re: Rapture
The book is about what the Bible says. What else could it be about?

The book is about what some person thinks the Bible means. As most people are doubtless aware, the entire Rapture doctrine is pieced together out of minimal Bible support. The doctrine is probably wrong.

Nobody can read the Bible and completely understand it; that's why God tgives us teachers and preachers who can bring out meanings we miss.

Uh, there is an obvious contradiction here.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by Faith, posted 03-19-2017 1:56 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 384 by jar, posted 03-19-2017 10:36 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10115
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 383 of 960 (802705)
03-19-2017 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by Faith
03-19-2017 1:47 AM


Re: witchcraft among other attacks on Trump
Witchcraft is silly claptrap. Small wonder you believe in it.

Beyond that, we've all peeped your cards. Apparently your own belief is that it is okay to pray for, say a democratic president's death as long as you do it according to Psalms. So not only are your beliefs idiotic, they are the height of hypocrisy.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Faith, posted 03-19-2017 1:47 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29748
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


(3)
Message 384 of 960 (802708)
03-19-2017 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 382 by NoNukes
03-19-2017 10:23 AM


Re: Rapture
Faith writes:

Nobody can read the Bible and completely understand it; that's why God tgives us teachers and preachers who can bring out meanings we miss.

Wasn't that the very same reason the Roman Catholic Church used to explain why the Bible should only be written in Latin? God gave Christians Priests who can bring out meanings the laity misses.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by NoNukes, posted 03-19-2017 10:23 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5544
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 385 of 960 (802712)
03-19-2017 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by Faith
03-19-2017 1:47 AM


Re: witchcraft among other attacks on Trump
You guys -- nwr, NoNukes -- really ought to keep up JUST A LITTLE with the conservative side of things, a few minutes of a few radio talk shows now and then maybe, check in with Drudge or Breitbart maybe, or at least WND or Newsmax, just once in a while, because all you know is the leftist side of it.

Oh, I have done that. Those sites have made dishonesty and misrepresentation into an art form.

The court challenges are unprecedented and illegal too.

If they were illegal, the courts would have rejected them.

It is also unprecedented that the previous President would stay in Washington, as Obama has, just a short distance from the White House, and that we hear his opinions on what Trump is doing from time to time.

And yet I hardly ever hear from Obama. He seems to be trying to keep out of the public eye.

In 1985, I was working in Chicago. I took a job 60 miles west of there. I kept the house in Chicago and commuted to the job, because I did not want to interrupt my children's education. I eventually moved house after the youngest graduated from high school. Obama is just doing the same sort of thing for his children.

What really bothers me, is that you call yourself a Christian. Yet you have a total disregard for truth and honesty.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Faith, posted 03-19-2017 1:47 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26701
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 386 of 960 (802714)
03-19-2017 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 376 by Phat
03-19-2017 4:16 AM


Re: Rapture
Here's the thing: It has come to look like living through the worsening times we live in could be as bad as going through the Tribulation. I can't wish either on anybody, but choosing between them has become difficult.

The main difference being that there will be no Holy Spirit around during the tribulation, while we DO have that blessing now.

This book, The Rapture: Don't Be Deceived, by pastor Billy Crone, argues, effectively I think, that the Holy Spirit can't be taken away, but His work through the Church can be when Christians are raptured off the earth. So people can still be saved, still pray, still have the Holy Spirit, but they're going to have to do it all from scratch as it were, and in an extraordinarly inhospitable environment. It is very encouraging to read in the Book of Revelation about the uncountable multitude who come through the Tribulation saved.

The thing about where we're headed now is into deeper and deeper sinfulness' as the world abandons God. That has to happen I suppose, before the end comes, but would it be better for, say, my grandsons to be subjected to that increasing pollution of their souls or just have to deal with the physical sufferings in the Tribulation?: I AM happy, however, that the elder grandson, thanks to my efforts, knows enough about the gospel to be interested, in spite of the anti-Christian influences that also surround him. So I pray he'll be saved, and his little brother too when he's old enough to understand it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by Phat, posted 03-19-2017 4:16 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 387 by Phat, posted 03-20-2017 7:48 AM Faith has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10222
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 387 of 960 (802783)
03-20-2017 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 386 by Faith
03-19-2017 11:51 AM


Re: Rapture
Faith writes:

I AM happy, however, that the elder grandson, thanks to my efforts, knows enough about the gospel to be interested, in spite of the anti-Christian influences that also surround him. So I pray he'll be saved, and his little brother too when he's old enough to understand it.

I have a question for you.

Jesus says the following:

John 15:18 writes:

“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.

Do you believe that the more people who disagree with and say hateful things to you confirms that you are spreading the right message?

Do you feel personally responsible for defending your views even in light of tremendous opposition?

Is it inevitable that all true Christians will be hated and laughed at before the rapture---as Noah was laughed at?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by Faith, posted 03-19-2017 11:51 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 388 by Faith, posted 03-20-2017 7:56 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 389 by ringo, posted 03-20-2017 12:23 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26701
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 388 of 960 (802784)
03-20-2017 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 387 by Phat
03-20-2017 7:48 AM


Re: Rapture
You are implying that I enjoy being hated or even seek it. As a matter of fact every time I write a post I think I'll finally get through to somebody. I'm always wrong, it's always a slap in the face. I keep being amazed by that.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by Phat, posted 03-20-2017 7:48 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 391 by NoNukes, posted 03-20-2017 1:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13963
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 389 of 960 (802808)
03-20-2017 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 387 by Phat
03-20-2017 7:48 AM


Re: Rapture
Phat writes:

Is it inevitable that all true Christians will be hated and laughed at before the rapture---as Noah was laughed at?


Noah wasn't laughed at. That's a fundie fiction.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by Phat, posted 03-20-2017 7:48 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10115
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 390 of 960 (802811)
03-20-2017 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 380 by Percy
03-19-2017 9:40 AM


Re: witchcraft among other attacks on Trump
quote:
He accused the mainstream press of being "fake news" at his very first press conference.
He insulted the Australian prime minister.
He claimed his inauguration crowds were the largest ever then fought with the press about it.
He caused chaos around the world with an ill-thought out and conceived refugee travel ban.
He disparaged NATO.
He withdrew from trade agreements and is threatening free trade around the globe.
He removed LBGT protections.
He frightened non-citizens around the country, green card or not. Illegals are fleeing.
He's is in the process of taking away health insurance from millions.
He's rolling back environmental protections.
He tweeted unsupported allegations about wiretapping by his predecessor and refused to drop the claim.

Your list wouldn't scare a single wingnut. In fact many of them are down-right ecstatic and would celebrate each item.

You can add to this list:

Accused Obama of enlisting Britain to spy on him because the US would not do it.
Submitted a bunch to Congress stripping money away from things like "Meals on Wheels"; disaster assistance; aid for poor college students, nutritional support for pregnant and nursing women; and clean air and water.
Proposed to separate children from their parents when they enter the US to request asylum.

Again, those seemingly horrible things are ideas that "right" minded folks are all cheering for.

In the minds of folks who would cheer a military vet being left to die if he could not afford health care, right leaning folks aren't the villains the list above makes them appear to be. They have philosophical reasons why we shouldn't help the most unfortunate among us. Faith says the Bible is not for nations despite verses easily found that command nations to do things. Other folks want to shrink government and claim to want individuals or the free market to pick up tasks like regulating the amount of lead in the water by taste. None of that smacks of sincerity to me at least.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by Percy, posted 03-19-2017 9:40 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
RewPrev1
...
2425
26
2728
...
64NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017