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Author Topic:   The Totalitarian Leftist Tactics against the Right
Faith
Member
Posts: 25796
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 676 of 960 (812320)
06-16-2017 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 675 by PaulK
06-15-2017 11:55 PM


Re: Hate speech
You expect you and your side to be exempt from criticism - even truthful criticism - while retaining the right to criticise your opponents without regard for the truth. And you find it "unbelievable" that your opponents won't accept that ?

Well there we have the party line again. Can't point out the utterly insanely egregious attacks on Trump and his supporters without being accused of refusing to accept criticism ourselves, which is nothing but a distraction from the point, a change of subject. The Left is out of control, there has never been anything before like the Left's attack on President Trump, by the media, by political leaders, by entertainment people, all the Leftists out there. There has never been such a refusal to accept the results of an election before, no matter how bitter the loss. Never. That's the subject here.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 675 by PaulK, posted 06-15-2017 11:55 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 677 by PaulK, posted 06-16-2017 12:41 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 687 by ringo, posted 06-16-2017 11:54 AM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12960
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 677 of 960 (812323)
06-16-2017 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 676 by Faith
06-16-2017 12:28 AM


Re: Hate speech
quote:

Well there we have the party line again.

It's not a party line - it is personal observation. And we have clear examples in this thread.

quote:

Can't point out the utterly insanely egregious attacks on Trump and his supporters without being accused of refusing to accept criticism ourselves, which is nothing but a distraction from the point, a change of subject.

Might I point out that someone who claimed that Trump could sort out health care but the Democrats were somehow stopping him (how? have they hidden his magic wand?) is hardly in a position to accurately assess what is going on. Or even what is sane.

And you have admitted that you are fine with egregious attacks on "liberals".

quote:

The Left is out of control, there has never been anything before like the Left's attack on President Trump, by the media, by political leaders, by entertainment people, all the Leftists out there.

And of course you can't accept the fact that much of these "attacks" are perfectly valid criticism. As opposed to, say, the insanity of "Pizzagate". Or even the hounding of Bill Clinton after the Whitewater investigation failed to find cause to prosecute.

quote:

There has never been such a refusal to accept the results of an election before, no matter how bitter the loss. Never. That's the subject here.

And yet a lot of it Trump brings upon himself. If Obama had been as bad as Trump there would have been far more criticism of him. There wasn't because he wasn't that bad.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 676 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 12:28 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
vimesey
Member
Posts: 888
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 678 of 960 (812338)
06-16-2017 4:23 AM
Reply to: Message 671 by New Cat's Eye
06-15-2017 9:09 PM


Re: Hate speech
I'm snowed under at work today, and can't respond as fully as I'd like to, but when you say:

If you're going to go "above and beyond", you should take extra care. Secial punishments, should you decide they exist, should not only be accurate, but very precise.

I completely agree, which is the reason the expression "hate speech" is a specific term, with specific implications - certainly in the UK, where you can be prosecuted for it. (The actual offences are called incitement to racial hatred etc, dependent upon the group being protected, but hate speech is used as the umbrella term).

I've got busy days ahead with a house move, so I'm afraid I won't be free to respond much in the near future. I'll come back to this if we're still debating it when I surface again.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 671 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-15-2017 9:09 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 685 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-16-2017 10:48 AM vimesey has not yet responded

    
Huntard
Member
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 679 of 960 (812342)
06-16-2017 4:55 AM
Reply to: Message 673 by Faith
06-15-2017 11:08 PM


Re: Hate speech
Faith writes:

It's crossed my mind that we may have to go back to the methods of medieval times and start dotting the landscape with fortified castles to protect ourselves from each other.

A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure, permanently, half "Right" and half "Left". I do not expect the Union to be dissolved — I do not expect the house to fall — but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other. Either the opponents of hate will arrest the further spread of it, and place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate extinction; or its advocates will push it forward, till it shall become lawful in all the States, old as well as new — "Right" as well as "Left".

To paraphrase perhaps the best President you lot ever had.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 673 by Faith, posted 06-15-2017 11:08 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Genomicus
Member
Posts: 846
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 680 of 960 (812382)
06-16-2017 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 600 by Faith
06-15-2017 1:43 AM


Re: more of the same
You'd think I'd be happy that we got Trump who represents my view of a secure and prosperous America, but the Left isn't going to let the rest of us enjoy our victory. They actually have a Resistance movement to thwart our will, the will of the other half of the voting population that disagree with them. What has happened to civility, to our vaunted freedoms?

These "vaunted freedoms" you speak of only existed for a specific subset of individuals in the United States. Trump's supporters wants to reinforce that exclusion. That's the problem.

Where are the voices decrying a comedian's holding up the severed head of OUR chosen President?

If you had more concern for the plight of undocumented immigrants -- which is an actual humanitarian concern -- then maybe you'd understand why a comedian holding up a severed head pales in comparison to what the right-wing is doing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 600 by Faith, posted 06-15-2017 1:43 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 681 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 9:52 AM Genomicus has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25796
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 681 of 960 (812384)
06-16-2017 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 680 by Genomicus
06-16-2017 9:47 AM


Re: more of the same
Neither Trump nor his supporters are for restricting freedoms of anybody. That is one of the biggest lies the left has been laying on him.

As for "undocumented" aliens I'm sure there are more or less humane ways of dealing with the problem and I'm sure all us Trump supporters are for the most humane ways. But it IS a problem which the Left seems determined to deny. Illegal entry into the US IS illegal, and the Leftist opposition to doing something about it borders on treason.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 680 by Genomicus, posted 06-16-2017 9:47 AM Genomicus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 682 by Genomicus, posted 06-16-2017 10:04 AM Faith has responded

    
Genomicus
Member
Posts: 846
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 3.3


(4)
Message 682 of 960 (812386)
06-16-2017 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 681 by Faith
06-16-2017 9:52 AM


Re: more of the same
Neither Trump nor his supporters are for restricting freedoms of anybody.

They are all for restricting the freedoms of undocumented immigrants.

As for "undocumented" aliens I'm sure there are more or less humane ways of dealing with the problem and I'm sure all us Trump supporters are for the most humane ways.

I mean not all of you Trump supporters. I was having a discussion on Quora the other day where this Trump supporter proposed rounding up all undocumented immigrants and forcing them to do free labor. You fundamentally do not understand the degree of vitriol that undocumented immigrants face on the regular from many Trump supporters.

But it IS a problem which the Left seems determined to deny.

What is the problem, exactly, of granting a pathway to citizenship to someone who was brought here at 2 years of age and has been in the United States ever since and has been thoroughly "Americanized"?

Illegal entry into the US IS illegal, and the Leftist opposition to doing something about it borders on treason.

And the rightist opposition to understanding the plight of undocumented immigrants and what systems create that plight borders on inhumanity.

Could care less about treason if it means doing something that's actually humane and fosters a respect for human dignity.

Edited by Genomicus, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 681 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 9:52 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 683 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 10:41 AM Genomicus has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25796
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 683 of 960 (812391)
06-16-2017 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 682 by Genomicus
06-16-2017 10:04 AM


Re: more of the same
Neither Trump nor his supporters are for restricting freedoms of anybody.

They are all for restricting the freedoms of undocumented immigrants.

OK, excuse my inexactness. All sane societies restrict the freedoms of people who commit criminal acts. Illegal entry into the country is illegal.. They have no right to be here and though we are to treat them as humanely as possible we have the right to deport them, and especially those among them who have committed crimes while here, and those should be the first to go. I'm for considering all kinds of mitigating circumstances and making allowances where warranted, but this idea that people who did not enter the country legally have some kind of right to be here is some sort of mental aberration and probably treason.

As for "undocumented" aliens I'm sure there are more or less humane ways of dealing with the problem and I'm sure all us Trump supporters are for the most humane ways.

I mean not all of you Trump supporters. I was having a discussion on Quora the other day where this Trump supporter proposed rounding up all undocumented immigrants and forcing them to do free labor.

Perhaps that would be a fair solution, something to think about.

You fundamentally do not understand the degree of vitriol that undocumented immigrants face on the regular from many Trump supporters.

Perhaps I don't but the situation of having people given rights they don't deserve forced on the rest of us is probably too much for some to take. Why is the Left always soft on lawbreakers and against the rights of rightful citizens? Where is your head? How do you justify such inequity? Nevertheless, a humane SOLUTION to the problem would no doubt be welcomed by even the Trump supporters who otherwise get righteously angry at how they are being mistreated. There is something seriously wrong with the liberal/leftist mindset. Do you have the clarity of thought to see the problem here? Can you explain this irrationality on your part?

But it IS a problem which the Left seems determined to deny.

What is the problem, exactly, of granting a pathway to citizenship to someone who was brought here at 2 years of age and has been in the United States ever since and has been thoroughly "Americanized"?

Aw, pick the most heartwrenching case you can find and ignore the big picture, of course. The problem is that it was never dealt with years ago. I'm sure this sort of case requires special consideration which I've said I'm for, although the illegality of the original act is something I'd rather not let the Left sweep under the rug even in these cases. All sorts of delicate situations should be dealt with delicately where possible. But you need to get your head out of the clouds and recognize that there is a real problem here that your Leftist viewpoint is whitewashing.

ry into the US IS illegal, and the Leftist opposition to doing something about it borders on treason.

And the rightist opposition to understanding the plight of undocumented immigrants and what systems create borders on inhumanity.

It's the Leftist support of illegality that has caused the problems you are trying to blame on the right. You need to acknowledge the rights of those average ordinary American citizens who are rightfully angry at your tolerance of lawbreakers -- their "inhumanity" is really just righteous anger and it's because of the insanity of the Left that it exists at all. The amazing thing is that it's as restrained as it is.

Could care less about treason if it means doing something that's actually humane and fosters a respect for human dignity.

You are of course very selective about what constitutes human dignity. You could not care less about the rights of the legal American citizens or THEIR dignity. Of course you don't care about treason, you don't care about anything except your narrow Leftist definition of humanity which for some reason always favors lawbreakers over the righteous. Any thoughts about why that is? Twisted Marxist indoctrination in the halls of academe would be where I would start to track it down.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 682 by Genomicus, posted 06-16-2017 10:04 AM Genomicus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 701 by Genomicus, posted 06-16-2017 2:41 PM Faith has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11650
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 684 of 960 (812392)
06-16-2017 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 672 by Chiroptera
06-15-2017 9:37 PM


Re: Who will be the first A-hole
Or they reported it because that's their job as journalists; they felt the information is important and they felt it's their professional duty to get this news out to the people.

You're joking, right!?

They're selling ad space - that is all.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 672 by Chiroptera, posted 06-15-2017 9:37 PM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 686 by Chiroptera, posted 06-16-2017 11:41 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11650
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 685 of 960 (812394)
06-16-2017 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 678 by vimesey
06-16-2017 4:23 AM


Re: Hate speech
Right on. If you find the time, I'd like to hear about what you meant by targeting someone "for" their vulnerability.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 678 by vimesey, posted 06-16-2017 4:23 AM vimesey has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6392
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 686 of 960 (812407)
06-16-2017 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 684 by New Cat's Eye
06-16-2017 10:44 AM


Not joking, but...
They're selling ad space - that is all.

At least what you say makes more sense than this weird fever dream that the contemporary American right wing is some poor persecuted minority and that the mainstream media is part of a vast "Leftist" conspiracy to destroy them and everything good about America.

Edited by Chiroptera, : Clarity.


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. – Billy Bragg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 684 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-16-2017 10:44 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13424
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(3)
Message 687 of 960 (812413)
06-16-2017 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 676 by Faith
06-16-2017 12:28 AM


Re: Hate speech
Faith writes:

Can't point out the utterly insanely egregious attacks on Trump and his supporters without being accused of refusing to accept criticism ourselves....


Maybe if you didn't use such insanely egregious hyperbole you'd be taken more seriously. Anybody who says, "there has never been anything before like...." needs to read some history.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 676 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 12:28 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 688 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 12:00 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25796
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 688 of 960 (812416)
06-16-2017 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 687 by ringo
06-16-2017 11:54 AM


Re: Hate speech
Anybody who doesn't see that the current attacks on Trump are absolutely unprecedented in American history is blind as a bat.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 687 by ringo, posted 06-16-2017 11:54 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 690 by Chiroptera, posted 06-16-2017 12:07 PM Faith has responded
 Message 692 by ringo, posted 06-16-2017 12:13 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 695 by JonF, posted 06-16-2017 1:03 PM Faith has responded
 Message 697 by ringo, posted 06-16-2017 1:15 PM Faith has responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6392
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 689 of 960 (812418)
06-16-2017 12:05 PM


Boy, Democrats and Republicans sure do dislike each other!
At the risk of derailing this thread even further, the vitriol in the current discussions make this article from this morning's New York Times relevant:

How We Became Bitter Political Enemies

Democratic and Republican voters don’t just disagree about the right way to reform health care or the true intentions of President Trump. Many despise each other, and to a degree that political scientists and pollsters say has gotten significantly worse over the last 50 years.
...
Mr. Iyengar doesn’t mean that the typical Democratic or Republican voter has adopted more extreme ideological views (although it is the case that elected officials in Congress have moved further apart). Rather, Democrats and Republicans truly think worse of each other, a trend that isn’t really about policy preferences. Members of the two parties are more likely today to describe each other unfavorably, as selfish, as threats to the nation, even as unsuitable marriage material.

As I said, mostly for informational purposes. Someone can start a New Topic if they think this is worth discussing in more detail.

Added by edit: Oops. I thought this was the Muslim thread. I guess this may not be as far off topic as I was thinking.

Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. – Billy Bragg

Replies to this message:
 Message 694 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 12:34 PM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6392
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 6.3


(5)
Message 690 of 960 (812419)
06-16-2017 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 688 by Faith
06-16-2017 12:00 PM


Re: Hate speech
... is blind as a bat.

Hey!


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. – Billy Bragg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 688 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 12:00 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 691 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 12:13 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
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