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Author Topic:   Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity
nwr
Member
Posts: 5531
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 931 of 1017 (803769)
04-04-2017 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 924 by Faith
04-04-2017 2:41 PM


Re: This should sum up this topic
WEDDING business, nwr, weddings, not any other kind of service.

It doesn't matter.

If you run a service business, and the law requires you to serve all customers without discrimination, then you serve all customers. If you are not willing to do that, then don't run a service business.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 924 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 2:41 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 932 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 4:33 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

Faith
Member
Posts: 25830
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 932 of 1017 (803770)
04-04-2017 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 931 by nwr
04-04-2017 4:32 PM


Re: This should sum up this topic
Uh huh, thank you for stating the obvious for the zillionth time. We really really needed to hear that.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 931 by nwr, posted 04-04-2017 4:32 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5625
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 933 of 1017 (803773)
04-04-2017 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 929 by Faith
04-04-2017 3:48 PM


Re: Your Roman Empire Council "church" Faith?
Hi Faith,

I hate to get involved in a thread of this nature but after reading a few posts I feel I must express my opinion on the matter.

Faith writes:

You could say your piece a lot more simply I think: you're in favor of secular government with no religious influence, as so many others here are; you are in favor of gay marriage, as so many others here are. I'm opposed to gay marriage because of what the Bible says about marriage and about homosexuality and there really doesn't need to be any of this pseudohistorical carrying on that you are doing to explain it.

But they all believe in a Government that does have a religious influence.

There is not a person here that supports abortion or gay rights that does not believe in the Government dictating religious beliefs.

When the Government starts dictating religious beliefs that I must obey with penalty of law, the Government has violated my freedom of religion, as it is dictating Church doctrine.

When the Government dictates Church doctrine it has established a religion.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 929 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 3:48 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 934 by NoNukes, posted 04-04-2017 6:49 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 935 by jar, posted 04-04-2017 6:53 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 937 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 8:53 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 934 of 1017 (803774)
04-04-2017 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 933 by ICANT
04-04-2017 6:30 PM


Re: Your Roman Empire Council "church" Faith?
There is not a person here that supports abortion or gay rights that does not believe in the Government dictating religious beliefs

Describe a position on abortion that does not result in dictating religious beliefs on someone. Once again you've gotten to the armpit of the matter while looking for its heart.

ABE:

Once people figure out that having religious beliefs does not allow you to change the behavior of others, these seeming conundrums go away.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 933 by ICANT, posted 04-04-2017 6:30 PM ICANT has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 29183
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(4)
Message 935 of 1017 (803775)
04-04-2017 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 933 by ICANT
04-04-2017 6:30 PM


ICANTs concept of establishing a religion
ICANT writes:

But they all believe in a Government that does have a religious influence.

There is not a person here that supports abortion or gay rights that does not believe in the Government dictating religious beliefs.

When the Government starts dictating religious beliefs that I must obey with penalty of law, the Government has violated my freedom of religion, as it is dictating Church doctrine.

When the Government dictates Church doctrine it has established a religion.

God Bless,

Bullshit.

Sorry but that is simply utter nonsense and yet another attempt at a theistic con job.

No law mandates that anyone have an abortion.

No law mandates anyone must marry someone of the same sex.

You position is not just dishonest it is absurd.

AbE: The government does not dictate doctrine. Those who believe abortion is wrong are absolutely free to not get abortions.

Those who believe same-sex marriages are wrong are absolutely free to not marry someone of the same sex.

Tell a religion that it cannot force it's beliefs on those who believe differently is not establishing a religion.

Edited by jar, : see AbE and fix the sub-title


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 933 by ICANT, posted 04-04-2017 6:30 PM ICANT has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 936 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 8:51 PM jar has responded

Faith
Member
Posts: 25830
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 936 of 1017 (803777)
04-04-2017 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 935 by jar
04-04-2017 6:53 PM


Re: ICANTs concept of establishing a religion
AbE: The government does not dictate doctrine. Those who believe abortion is wrong are absolutely free to not get abortions.

Those who believe same-sex marriages are wrong are absolutely free to not marry someone of the same sex.

This is probably the silliest least relevant point that gets made on this subject. Silly straw man, ridiculous.

As for abortion, we aren't free to withhold our tax support for the murdering of babies though, are we? We are FORCED to fund this evil "service."

And, what this thread IS about, we aren't free to refuse to accept gay marriage by refusing to serve a gay wedding either, we are subject to penalties for acting on our religious belief.

"Freedom," ha!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 935 by jar, posted 04-04-2017 6:53 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 938 by jar, posted 04-04-2017 8:56 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25830
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 937 of 1017 (803778)
04-04-2017 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 933 by ICANT
04-04-2017 6:30 PM


Re: Your Roman Empire Council "church" Faith?
Your point is way way too sophisticated for this thread, ICANT. We are back in kindergarten on the subject of American freedoms, and even at that level it's impossible to keep the topic straight. But thanks for the effort.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 933 by ICANT, posted 04-04-2017 6:30 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29183
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 938 of 1017 (803779)
04-04-2017 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 936 by Faith
04-04-2017 8:51 PM


Re: ICANTs concept of establishing a religion
Faith writes:

And, what this thread IS about, we aren't free to refuse to accept gay marriage by refusing to serve a gay wedding either, we are subject to penalties for acting on our religious belief.

Correct, no religious belief justifies breaking the law.

It really is that simple Faith, Thank God!

Faith writes:

As for abortion, we aren't free to withhold our tax support for the murdering of babies though, are we? We are FORCED to fund this evil "service."

Fortunately in the US Faith, the only tax dollars used to murder babies is called the military budget and even there it is stupid to call it murder. Abortion in the US is not murder and those that use that term are at best ignorant, possibly deluded but most likely just lying.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 936 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 8:51 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 939 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 9:08 PM jar has responded

Faith
Member
Posts: 25830
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 939 of 1017 (803781)
04-04-2017 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 938 by jar
04-04-2017 8:56 PM


Re: ICANTs concept of establishing a religion
Sure, well I guess we COULD call a beheading tickling the throat," or violent gang rape "the hokey pokey," or The Rack a medical treatment? Why not, word magic is really very effective at denying freedoms and covering up crimes and the like.

And of course we mustn't ever break the law by for instance saving a Jew from the concentration camp?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 938 by jar, posted 04-04-2017 8:56 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 940 by jar, posted 04-04-2017 9:16 PM Faith has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29183
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 940 of 1017 (803782)
04-04-2017 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 939 by Faith
04-04-2017 9:08 PM


Re: ICANTs concept of establishing a religion
Faith writes:

Sure, well I guess we COULD call a beheading tickling the throat," or violent gang rape "the hokey pokey," or The Rack a medical treatment? Why not, word magic is really very effective at denying freedoms and covering up crimes and the like.

Yes, in the US you are free to say things as stupid as that, but it does not alter the fact that while beheading (in most cases; there can be accidental beheadings) and rape are identified as crimes and torture is illegal, abortion is still not murder.

Reality once again says you are wrong Faith.

AbE:

Faith writes:

And of course we mustn't ever break the law by for instance saving a Jew from the concentration camp?

Once again Faith, it has been said that no one's religious beliefs justify breaking the law. There can be simple humanitarian reasons to save Jews, particularly from Christian pogroms.

Edited by jar, : see AbE

Edited by jar, : appalin grammre

Edited by jar, : add space


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 939 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 9:08 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 941 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 9:23 PM jar has responded

Faith
Member
Posts: 25830
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 941 of 1017 (803785)
04-04-2017 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 940 by jar
04-04-2017 9:16 PM


Re: ICANTs concept of establishing a religion
There are simple humanitarian reasons for saving unborn babies from the abortion slaughterhouse.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 940 by jar, posted 04-04-2017 9:16 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 942 by jar, posted 04-04-2017 9:31 PM Faith has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29183
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 942 of 1017 (803786)
04-04-2017 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 941 by Faith
04-04-2017 9:23 PM


Re: ICANTs concept of establishing a religion
Faith writes:

There are simple humanitarian reasons for saving unborn babies from the abortion slaughterhouse.

Once again Faith, it seems that language is another thing you need to learn. Abortions are not performed on unborn babies or in a slaughterhouse.

BUT... the nut jobs that are Right To Lifer have yet to propose the reasonable solution; to step up and adopt and raise and support those fetuses that might get aborted.

It really is that simple Faith.

Edited by jar, : left out "that are"


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 941 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 9:23 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 943 by NoNukes, posted 04-04-2017 11:04 PM jar has acknowledged this reply
 Message 944 by dwise1, posted 04-04-2017 11:27 PM jar has not yet responded
 Message 945 by Faith, posted 04-05-2017 2:28 AM jar has responded

NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 943 of 1017 (803791)
04-04-2017 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 942 by jar
04-04-2017 9:31 PM


Re: ICANTs concept of establishing a religion
It really is that simple Faith.

Legally aborted fetuses are generally not viable with the exception of those few folks who are unfortunate enough (i.e. about to die) so that they qualify for a late term abortion.

The real point is that there is no way to make abortion murder without some particular reason to declare a fetus a human being. The science does not cause us to do that; the ultimate reasons are religious.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 942 by jar, posted 04-04-2017 9:31 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 965 by Dredge, posted 04-06-2017 6:00 AM NoNukes has responded

dwise1
Member
Posts: 2912
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 944 of 1017 (803792)
04-04-2017 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 942 by jar
04-04-2017 9:31 PM


Re: ICANTs concept of establishing a religion
BUT... the nut jobs that are Right To Lifer have yet to propose the reasonable solution; to step up and adopt and raise and support those fetuses that might get aborted.

I heard this offered as a slightly humorous response to the so-called "Pro-Lifers" by one of their opponents, who I believe was an atheist:

quote:
I am also Pro-Life. However, unlike you who only believes in life before birth and after death, I believe in life after birth and before death.

He does make a definite point about the so-called "Pro-Lifers" having their priorities all screwed up.

An opinion piece I read points out that all this "pro-life" noise is just a smoke screen for what really motivated the Religious Right to organize: school desegregation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 942 by jar, posted 04-04-2017 9:31 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 25830
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 945 of 1017 (803797)
04-05-2017 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 942 by jar
04-04-2017 9:31 PM


weird accusations of pro-lifers etc
So if I'm unable to adopt a child due to my age and my physical problems I'm not allowed to object to the murder of the unborn? And I'm also therefore somehow morally responsible for its murder in the womb? What kind of nonsense is that? I also wouldn't force my single status on a child, I think children need a father and a mother, but actually if I could I think I would adopt a child or three. I love babies. If I had the means, the situation, the physical health, the money, I think I'd do it.

As a matter of fact I have the impression that Christians and conservatives do quite a bit of adopting of children. Often they adopt the older "unadoptables" but there's no reason they wouldn't adopt infants. Do you even have any idea at what rate they adopt or is this just a fun way to call pro-lifers hypocrites? This is a pretty weird accusation.

Seems to me in a rational world objecting to abortion wouldn't be a "religious" thing, it would be common sense. All those pushing for the murder of the unborn COULD spend their time more usefully engaged in the problem of taking care of unwanted children one way or another-- start a campaign on behalf of having children or something like that. Why don't YOU ALL step up to the plate instead of rationalizing murder?

And quite frankly it also seems to me that common sense would tell a person that marriage is for a man and a woman not two of the same sex -- why is this only an issue for "religious" people? This shouldn't prevent sympathy for gay people, it could even stimulate creative solutions, but my impression is that the leftists don't want to DO anything useful, they just like to accuse conservatives and Christians of whatever they can think up. It's SO much fun.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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