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Author Topic:   Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity
Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1336 of 1358 (841478)
10-13-2018 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1335 by ringo
10-13-2018 12:23 PM


Re: gay marriage not gays
Use your head. How do you think the Christian baker would respond to that?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1335 by ringo, posted 10-13-2018 12:23 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1337 by ringo, posted 10-13-2018 3:30 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1337 of 1358 (841484)
10-13-2018 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1336 by Faith
10-13-2018 2:47 PM


Re: gay marriage not gays
Faith writes:

Use your head. How do you think the Christian baker would respond to that?


He ought to laugh.

How do you think he would respond? How would you respond?

You gay-haters really need to lighten up.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1336 by Faith, posted 10-13-2018 2:47 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1338 by Faith, posted 10-13-2018 3:53 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1338 of 1358 (841485)
10-13-2018 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1337 by ringo
10-13-2018 3:30 PM


Re: gay marriage not gays
You lying accusers really need to grow a brain.

God ordained marriage for a man and a woman, period. Any other use of it is a violation of His ordinance.

Now use that one brain cell to figure out what the Christian baker would do.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1337 by ringo, posted 10-13-2018 3:30 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1339 by ringo, posted 10-13-2018 4:01 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1339 of 1358 (841486)
10-13-2018 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1338 by Faith
10-13-2018 3:53 PM


Re: gay marriage not gays
Faith writes:

God ordained marriage for a man and a woman, period.


No He didn't. He didn't say anything about marriage. Marriage is strictly a human invention.

Faith writes:

Now use that one brain cell to figure out what the Christian baker would do.


I've already said what a normal human being would do - he'd laugh at the idea of a bride with a big moustache. How do you think a Lord! Lord! Christian would respond? How would you respond?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1338 by Faith, posted 10-13-2018 3:53 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1340 by Faith, posted 10-13-2018 4:22 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1340 of 1358 (841487)
10-13-2018 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1339 by ringo
10-13-2018 4:01 PM


What God said about Marriage
God ordained marriage for a man and a woman, period.

No He didn't. He didn't say anything about marriage. Marriage is strictly a human invention.

Liar.

Gen 2:24 writes:

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Jesus in Mat 19:4-5 writes:

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh...

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1339 by ringo, posted 10-13-2018 4:01 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1342 by ringo, posted 10-14-2018 2:13 PM Faith has responded
 Message 1346 by Faith, posted 10-15-2018 3:12 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6531
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 1341 of 1358 (841512)
10-14-2018 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1325 by Hyroglyphx
10-11-2018 11:03 PM


Sorry for the late reply, Hyro. Since the semester began in August, I've been bouncing between too busy to do much more than lurk, or so sleep deprived to do much more than lurk.

It's been an enjoyable semester, though.

I hope you've been well.

-

Then why on earth would you willingly want to give them your hard-earned money?

I kind of understand that. But then that goes to the heart of why we have anti-discrimination laws. After all, why would African Americans want to give a restaurant that discriminates their hard earned money? Why would women want to work for an employer who discriminates?

The problem is that without anti-discrimination laws, there may be no businesses that will cater to the discriminated class. Having anti-discrimination laws that are enforced prevents that type of situation from arising.

Sometimes a business owner may want to do the right thing and let African Americans eat in their fine dining establishment. However, they know that if they do that then they'd be out of business because the majority white customers will go else where. Or worse, rocks will be thrown through their windows at home in the middle of the night. By forcing everyone to serve the discriminated classes, it gives cover to those who would want to do the right thing.

Finally, being in all the majority demographics, I can't imagine the constant indignity that members of the discriminated classes must endure every single day of their lives. Being told by a public accommodation that they won't be served must be one more indignity in a constant stream, and I feel that it is just that the law will, in this case, allow them to get some justice.

-

... last time I checked, money is still green whether its coming from straight or gay patrons.

I definitely understand this one; I've used it myself.

But I suppose that it's possible that Phillips has maxed out his wedding cake baking capacity and can afford to be choosy.

Also, even though I understand that business owners need to make a living, I never bought into the notion that making as much money as possible in any way possible is really a legitimate way to behave. I think that business owners should sometimes put values and ethics above making that next dollar.

I'm just disappointed that Phillips chose the wrong side of this issue to engage that principle.


We weaken our greatness when we confuse our patriotism with tribal rivalries that have sown resentment and hatred and violence in all the corners of the globe. -- John McCain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1325 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-11-2018 11:03 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1345 by Faith, posted 10-14-2018 2:54 PM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1342 of 1358 (841516)
10-14-2018 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1340 by Faith
10-13-2018 4:22 PM


Re: What God said about Marriage
Faith writes:

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.


That isn't a "prescription" for marriage. It isn't a commandment. It's, "It shall happen." It isn't, "Thou shalt not." It's just a description of a marriage bond.

Faith writes:

Matthew 19:4-5 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh...


Same as above. It doesn't preclude other forms of bonding.

Faith writes:

Liar.


Illiterate.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1340 by Faith, posted 10-13-2018 4:22 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1343 by Faith, posted 10-14-2018 2:52 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1343 of 1358 (841522)
10-14-2018 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1342 by ringo
10-14-2018 2:13 PM


Re: What God said about Marriage
You really should start your own cult based on your weird readings of the Bible. No Christian has any reason to listen to you.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1342 by ringo, posted 10-14-2018 2:13 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1344 by ringo, posted 10-14-2018 2:53 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1344 of 1358 (841523)
10-14-2018 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1343 by Faith
10-14-2018 2:52 PM


Re: What God said about Marriage
Faith writes:

No Christian has any reason to listen to you.


And yet you do.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1343 by Faith, posted 10-14-2018 2:52 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1345 of 1358 (841524)
10-14-2018 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1341 by Chiroptera
10-14-2018 10:22 AM


chiroptera writes:

I think that business owners should sometimes put values and ethics above making that next dollar.

I'm just disappointed that Phillips chose the wrong side of this issue to engage that principle.

He chose God's truth over any other principle, as a Christian must do, no matter what the consequences from people who can't understand such a choice.

But once again, let's try to be clear that this is about an objection to gay marriage, and not in any way is it discrimination against gay people as such, who are welcome to any other product the store offers, welcome to sit down and have a pastry and coffee, welcome to anything but the baker's endorsement of gay marriage.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1341 by Chiroptera, posted 10-14-2018 10:22 AM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1346 of 1358 (841539)
10-15-2018 3:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1340 by Faith
10-13-2018 4:22 PM


Re: What God said about Marriage
I don't want this to get lost. The following is the biblical reason Christians reject gay marriage, no matter what ringo says about it:

Gen 2:24 writes:

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.


Jesus in Mat 19:4-5 writes:

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1340 by Faith, posted 10-13-2018 4:22 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1347 by Tangle, posted 10-15-2018 3:39 AM Faith has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6344
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 1347 of 1358 (841541)
10-15-2018 3:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1346 by Faith
10-15-2018 3:12 AM


Re: What God said about Marriage
Nothing there about gay marriage, either banning it or endorsing it. Nor is it terribly surprising that men will cleave unto their wives.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1346 by Faith, posted 10-15-2018 3:12 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1348 by Faith, posted 10-15-2018 3:56 AM Tangle has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1348 of 1358 (841545)
10-15-2018 3:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1347 by Tangle
10-15-2018 3:39 AM


Re: What God said about Marriage
But of course what you think about it is totally irrelevant. Christians know it means God ordained marriage between a man and a woman and anything else is against His ordinance. Whatever you think, this is what these business owners are acting on. I guess you can refuse to accept it and punish them for it, but it's still what they are going to act on whatever you say or do about it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1347 by Tangle, posted 10-15-2018 3:39 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1355 by Tangle, posted 10-15-2018 6:11 AM Faith has responded

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1551
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1349 of 1358 (841547)
10-15-2018 5:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1331 by Faith
10-13-2018 4:03 AM


Re: gay marriage not gays
This has been argued to death for years already. If the baker feels he or she is being put in the position of giving endorsement to gay marriage, whatever circumstances bring that about, they will refuse to do it. If the court thinks that is discrimination against gay people rather than an objection to gay marriage I would consider the court to be wrong, but in any case they will punish the baker and possibly put the baker out of business. If that's the way it goes, then that's the way it goes.

Having just reread the Equality Act, the judges would unquestionably be correct. It's the law itself you consider to be wrong, since it's pretty explicit - refusal to provide a service for a gay wedding that you would provide for a straight wedding is illegal; unless you're a religious organisation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1331 by Faith, posted 10-13-2018 4:03 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1350 by Faith, posted 10-15-2018 5:02 AM caffeine has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1350 of 1358 (841548)
10-15-2018 5:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1349 by caffeine
10-15-2018 5:01 AM


Re: gay marriage not gays
OK, so the law is against our religion. That is indeed how it has seemed. So much for not prohibiting "the free exercise thereof..."

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1349 by caffeine, posted 10-15-2018 5:01 AM caffeine has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1351 by PaulK, posted 10-15-2018 5:22 AM Faith has responded

    
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