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Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
Faith
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Posts: 24487
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 46 of 85 (804042)
04-06-2017 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by New Cat's Eye
04-06-2017 3:12 PM


Re: Real world evidence
Your straw man is more pathetic than most. End of conversation.
This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
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Posts: 11251
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 47 of 85 (804043)
04-06-2017 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Faith
04-05-2017 9:03 PM


Proving a negative?

How would I ever know that I need to go buy more beer if I cannot prove that there is no beer in the fridge?

The evidence for the Flood is gargantuan, worldwide, starting with the sedimentary strata that were laid down one on top of another across huge spans of geography, obviously deposited by water, showing very tight contacts between them, razor sharp in many cases.

How could one stratum get smooshed down on top of another stratum without there being a tight contact line between them? They can't float!

Then there was the amount of time erosion would have had since then to carve various figures out of the deposited sedimentary rock. 4500 years just about exactly the right amount of time to carve the hoodoos and the monuments and the Grand Staircase and so on.

Yeah right. I don't believe you.


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 Message 4 by Faith, posted 04-05-2017 9:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

caffeine
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Posts: 1252
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 48 of 85 (804044)
04-06-2017 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Davidjay
04-06-2017 10:34 AM


Re: No way the strata represent great eras of time
But lets get at the exact year of the Flood and the numerous and multiple ways a true scientist and researcher can find out when it happened. No billions or trillions of years, and new estimates and new projections and guesses like with your folks, just simple math, simple measurements, obvious connections with historical landmarks etc etc.

Excellent! I've been looking forward to discovering what your 'exact maths' involved ever since you started blethering about it.

But first HERE are the basic articles from my research

http://www.davidjayjordan.com/NoahsArk.html

...and then you don't show us any maths. You just tell us to look at your website.

Worse, you don't even link to a page with maths on it. The only number on that page is a Bible chapter reference.

I clicked on a couple of links but the closest I found to maths was arithmetic - the adding of generation lengths in Genesis. I was hoping for something more interesting but don't intend to click on every article to find where this maths is hiding. Let's see where you direct us.

http://www.davidjayjordan.com/GreatPyramidProphecy.html

There's an obscure (unconscious) reference to medieval Islamic myths about the Great Pyramid; then the (probably false) claim that the pasageway to the King's Chamber is 6007 inches long. Therefore, the length of the passageway is equal to the length of history!... if you use a unit defined in 1930.... and if it's 2004.

Again confirming the Biblical exact year of 2348 BC

Neither that year nor the flood are mentioned in the page linked to. I can only handle so much disappointment in one evening, so I'm not clicking aimlessly through the linked articles to find where this is supposed to be demonstrated.

If this is the 'exact maths' you prefer to statistics, then I am distinctly unimpressed.


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Tangle
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Posts: 4550
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 49 of 85 (804046)
04-06-2017 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Faith
04-06-2017 3:09 PM


Re: Real world evidence
Faith writes:

Deal with the evidence given. I'm describing real world facts. You have to address those facts not your prejudices about religion.

The diference between us Faith, is that I am very willing to follow the evidence. I would be overjoyed to find evidence that destroyed extant science - no matter what it is. I'm a bit of an iconoclast, I enjoy disruptive change and new ideas. How fabulous it would be to find real evidence of a God. It would be the biggest thing to have happened to humanity ever. Why wouldn't anyone want to know that?

You, on the other hand, tell us that your beliefs are absolutely correct; just can't be wrong. You can't therefore follow evidence, you are required by your beliefs to deny evidence that contradicts them. You simply can not accept counter-biblical ideas. That's a fact isn't it? You told us so yourself.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


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Faith
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Posts: 24487
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 50 of 85 (804048)
04-06-2017 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Tangle
04-06-2017 3:45 PM


Re: Real world evidence
This is a huge waste of time. Just deal with the evidence I've given. I've described the strata, answer the descdription. The description suggests a young earth. I have not referred to the Bible. Yes the bible is infallible, but it doesn't dictate the eviddnece. Deal with the evidence. Thanik you.
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jar
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Posts: 28694
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 51 of 85 (804050)
04-06-2017 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Faith
04-06-2017 3:55 PM


Re: Real world evidence
Faith writes:

I've described the strata, answer the descdription.

Actually Faith, no you have not. What you have done is describe your made up strata.

Faith writes:

The description suggests a young earth.

Actually Faith, no it does not. YOU make up the fantasy of a young Earth based on your perversion of the Bible.

Faith writes:

Yes the bible is infallible, but it doesn't dictate the eviddnece.

Actually Faith, no it is not. Once gain the reality is that the Bible is filled with factual errors and contradictions. What you claim is infallible is your fantasy.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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Faith
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Posts: 24487
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 52 of 85 (804055)
04-06-2017 4:36 PM


Evidence please?
Only PaulK has addressed the evidence I've given at all, everybody else has engaged in one form of evasion or another. There is no point discussing all the extra-evidential comments and I'm sorry I've done that.

By which I mean Coyote's refusal to address the evidence I've given because his dating methods are enough for him'
Tangle's refusal to address the evidence because I get my inspiration from the Bible;
CatsEye's refusal to address the evidence because I've never taken a pickaxe to a rock;
and jar's refusal to address the evidence because he prefers to make unfounded accusations based on his prejudices about my beliefs.

But for anyone who might like to think about the evidence itself, here are four posts of mine about the evidence:

Message 10
Message 18
Message 20
Message 36

There are other briefer remarks on the evidence besides these.


Replies to this message:
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Admin
Director
Posts: 12439
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 53 of 85 (804057)
04-06-2017 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Davidjay
04-06-2017 10:34 AM


Re: No way the strata represent great eras of time
From the Forum Guidelines:

  1. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
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Admin
Director
Posts: 12439
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 54 of 85 (804058)
04-06-2017 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Faith
04-06-2017 4:36 PM


Re: Evidence please?
This thread is for Davidjay to present his views on the flood. Since his Message 24 contained no evidence, arguments or descriptions, only bare links to his website, he has yet to present them. Your views have other threads where they have been and can be discussed.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11251
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 55 of 85 (804061)
04-06-2017 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Faith
04-06-2017 4:36 PM


Re: Evidence please?
CatsEye's refusal to address the evidence because I've never taken a pickaxe to a rock;

Not true, that was for clarity.

Here's me addressing what you are calling evidence:

quote:
Since these observations call the Old Earth model into question, they also call the dating methods into question, so you can't just keep pointing to those methods as if they trump everything else.

Well, it is a science thread. Where's the scientific evidence that doesn't fit the old model?


quote:
The evidence for the Flood is gargantuan, worldwide, starting with the sedimentary strata that were laid down one on top of another across huge spans of geography, obviously deposited by water, showing very tight contacts between them, razor sharp in many cases.

How could one stratum get smooshed down on top of another stratum without there being a tight contact line between them? They can't float!


I still don't know the answers to those questions.

If you'll answer them, we can move on and I'll keep addressing.


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 Message 52 by Faith, posted 04-06-2017 4:36 PM Faith has not yet responded

New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11251
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 56 of 85 (804062)
04-06-2017 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
04-05-2017 9:46 PM


The receding water would have scoured off those huge plateaus.

How do you know?

What properties of the plateaus indicate them being scoured off by receding Flood waters?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 04-05-2017 9:46 PM Faith has not yet responded

New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11251
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 57 of 85 (804063)
04-06-2017 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
04-06-2017 1:33 AM


Re: No way the strata represent great eras of time
It's commonly believed here but the actual observed facts of the strata don't fit that long-term scenario but are best explained by rapid deposition. The strata are laid one on top of another quite straight and flat, there is nothing about them to suggest there was ever anything like a normal earth surface to any of them, they are flat as a pancake stretching over huge distances and stacked to huge depths.

The densities of the strata, and the arrangements of their molecules, indicate that they have been compacted and we're not laid down in the form that they are in today.

How does your model account for that?


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Davidjay
Member
Posts: 460
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 58 of 85 (804082)
04-07-2017 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by New Cat's Eye
04-06-2017 7:32 PM


Re: FIRST ABSOLUTE EXACT PROOF
Settle down folks, count to ten ! Take a deep breath, and get mathematical rather than hysterical.

My links are exact and if you followed any of the different methods of deducing and finding out the exact year of the Great Flood, your scientific mind would be opened. Just use honesty as your quide.

Lets take the easiest one first to get you on the base line. It takes maybe Grade Six math, and I know for sure all of you out there have grade six math abilities.

The Lord said, Be fruitful and MULTIPLY, but all you have to do in this case is ADD. Just use simple addition from the exact years given in Genesis from one generation to the next. Come on folks you can do it, its not hard, dont fight it, be honest and do the math.

Go to Genesis write down the years to the birth of the next generation.

Adam to Seth 130 years from Creation
Seth to his son Enos 105 years

Start your column of addition,

And it turns into this exact dating of years

http://www.davidjayjordan.com/ForeFathersGraphic.html

How many years until the Flood ..... 1646 years. Thats your product RIGHT ? RIGHT ? The genesis or Biblical history says that exactly 1646 years after Creation there was a worldwide flood.

Now dont throw a fit and start writing the words, myth, lies etc etc...

Mathematically you cant deny the addition of these years. Its easy, its a basic, a cornerstone, its EXACT. Its not billions and trillions of years, changed with every new theory of a new theory of an old theory. Its a standard.

The number of years is 1646.

From there you will have to follow historical markers, to work backwards to find out the year of Creation. Oh my God (Jesus) that will take another skill called subtraction....... but you can do it if honest.

After you admit this simple addition, or run away screaming or gnashing some teeth. When you settle down, or if you simply keep a scientific open mind, I shall prove that this 2348 year, is further proven by the Great Prophecy Marker exactly, and by Time itself.

So just do the addition first, and be honest.

(PS..I know your lives are on the line HERE evolutionists... but have integrity and just do the math)

Afterwards, I shall have installment Proof NUMBER 2
and head that post accordingly.. Wait for it, do your homework for now and then youll be prepared for PROOF NUMBER 2

.

OCS ( abbreviatioons for Onward Christian Soldiers also known as Onward Christian Scientists)

David

Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.


.
Evolution is not science and is pure religion, forced upon the young to ensure their faith in luck and chance rather than mathematics and design.

The Lord created science and all things. Laws did not create themselves. Nothing happened by chance and accident.


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Replies to this message:
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Davidjay
Member
Posts: 460
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 59 of 85 (804083)
04-07-2017 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Davidjay
04-07-2017 12:36 AM


Re: FIRST ABSOLUTE EXACT PROOF
And after The SECOND Confirmation Proof

We shall go to the time, I mean seconds and weeks corelation again showing the absolute exactness of 2348 BC. This can be the
3rd Absolute Proof.....

And then maybe we shall put them all together and give the mathematical DESIGN PROOF of History in the thousand year periods of the Lord. Im sorry, as Hes actually called the Lord of Lords, as many of you presently must have your own lord or lords. Anyway can I suggest to you after all these various mathematical exact confirmations, that Jesus is the ********. I know many of you will hate this, but sorry, a truth is a truth. If you differ so be it, your choice.

Anyway, deal with ABSOLUTE PROOF ONE above...straight from Genesis.

ATBIJ (Abbreviations for all the best in Jesus)

DAVID

So theres more bullets in the chambers and arrows in the quill and absolute mathematical proofs to absolutely confirm the **** of *****.
(Figure out the ****'s and you will have His Name, start figuring out mysteries.. OCS)


.
Evolution is not science and is pure religion, forced upon the young to ensure their faith in luck and chance rather than mathematics and design.

The Lord created science and all things. Laws did not create themselves. Nothing happened by chance and accident.


This message is a reply to:
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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3768
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 60 of 85 (804085)
04-07-2017 1:11 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Davidjay
04-07-2017 12:45 AM


Admin warning - Give us some evidence that the flood happened
This is a rather mixed non-admin mode/admin mode message.

You are giving a Biblical chronology of a scientifically dubious (to say the least) event, combined with some other blather. All of this seems to be irrelevant to any evidence that "the flood" happened.

You were mighty close to a 24 hour suspension.

So, why should the non-creationist side have a "belief" that the flood happened? We're talking worldly evidence, not that "the Bible said so".

Minnemooseus/Adminnemooseus


Or something like that.

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