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Author Topic:   Immigrants good for me and you? Bad? How to make a good answer that is accurate?
RAZD
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Posts: 19544
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 16 of 156 (837804)
08-09-2018 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Faith
08-09-2018 1:40 PM


Re: Standards versus chaos
... What is this big push for having no standards at all?
... when sensible nations have always had immigration standards?

The US originally had no standards. The Statue of Liberty does not qualify it's open door statement with standards. We are (supposedly) "the land of the free and the home of the brave" and we pledge allegiance to "one nation ... indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" and finally, there is no mention of standards in the constitution for new immigrants (having been written by recent immigrants who came with standards applied). This is (or was) our national persona.

... but even if illegal uncontrolled immigration has some positive effects why support such a chaotic nonsystem ...

So make it simple.

A simple standard is: if you get arrested and then convicted of a crime you get deported.

A simple standard for citizenship is: if you earn a GED (high school -- including english language and american history) then you can take the test.

And of course I object to this kneejerk PC leftist accusation of racism of anyone who supports such standards. The standards usually have to do with level of education and shared cultural values, NOT racism. ...

That depends a lot on what "shared cultural values" means. Maybe not racism per se but certainly open to bias and bigotry (anti-muslim for instance).

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Faith, posted 08-09-2018 1:40 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 08-09-2018 2:38 PM RAZD has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30718
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 17 of 156 (837805)
08-09-2018 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Faith
08-09-2018 1:40 PM


Re: Standards versus chaos
Faith writes:

What is this big push for having no standards at all?

No one has suggested having no standards at all except YOU.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Faith, posted 08-09-2018 1:40 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 08-09-2018 2:36 PM jar has responded

  
Faith
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Posts: 29188
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 18 of 156 (837806)
08-09-2018 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
08-09-2018 2:30 PM


Re: Standards versus chaos
Open Borders is having no standards.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 08-09-2018 2:30 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 08-09-2018 2:45 PM Faith has responded
 Message 23 by jar, posted 08-09-2018 3:55 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29188
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 19 of 156 (837807)
08-09-2018 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by RAZD
08-09-2018 2:29 PM


Re: Standards versus chaos
I'm for bias and bigotry if it means excluding criminals, jihadists and leftists/communists/ and people who poop on sidewalks..

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by RAZD, posted 08-09-2018 2:29 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by RAZD, posted 08-09-2018 3:55 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 25 by jar, posted 08-09-2018 3:58 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 08-09-2018 4:25 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 30 by Taq, posted 08-09-2018 4:46 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 32 by NoNukes, posted 08-09-2018 6:49 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 14920
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 20 of 156 (837809)
08-09-2018 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
08-09-2018 2:36 PM


Re: Standards versus chaos
Faith writes:

Open Borders is having no standards.


If somebody says, "My door is always open," that doesn't mean you can go in and steal his stapler. It still implies a certain standard of courtesy is expected.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 08-09-2018 2:36 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Faith, posted 08-09-2018 2:48 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 29188
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 21 of 156 (837810)
08-09-2018 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by ringo
08-09-2018 2:45 PM


Re: Standards versus chaos
How about if a hundred people want to camp in your living room?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 08-09-2018 2:45 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 14920
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 22 of 156 (837813)
08-09-2018 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Faith
08-09-2018 2:48 PM


Re: Standards versus chaos
Faith writes:

How about if a hundred people want to camp in your living room?


After the first dozen or so, their enthusiasm will probably start to wane.

Do you really think people would try to jam themseves in where there's no room? Populations tend to be self-regulating. That's what causes migration in the first place.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Faith, posted 08-09-2018 2:48 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30718
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 23 of 156 (837820)
08-09-2018 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
08-09-2018 2:36 PM


Re: Standards versus chaos
Faith writes:

Open Borders is having no standards.

Only in the mind of the Cult of Ignorance and those totally disconnected from reality.

All of our laws sill stand as well as all of our societal norms.

The standards are still there and that was the norm for most of my life; you arrived at a border and when leaving they waved at you and when entering they asked you a few questions. The same process in reverse happened when you returned. No passports were needed in either direction and the system worked.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 08-09-2018 2:36 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by RAZD, posted 08-09-2018 3:59 PM jar has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19544
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 24 of 156 (837821)
08-09-2018 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
08-09-2018 2:38 PM


Re: Standards versus chaos
I'm for bias and bigotry ...

We know. Just don't call it racist, even though it is just as bad ... kind of the litmus test for bias and bigotry in the US these days.

But that's your "shared cultural values" ...

if it means excluding criminals, ...

Anyone with a criminal record gets deported, unless they can show they qualify for amnesty.

... jihadists ...

Who always identify themselves at the border ... isolating them is no different than isolating "home grown" terrorists and hate group members.

... and leftists ...

That's you with your bias and bigotry again, laughable this one, and again there are "home grown" Americans that are leftist (which is no crime last time I looked ... it's just political leaning, the kind of politics that brought you 8 hour days, weekends and vacations ...).

... communists ...

Again, politics, and lots of Americans are members already ... home grown ... and it too is not a crime ...

... and people who poop on sidewalks.

Now you're just being facetious ...


The point I would make is that if there are immigrants that are essentially no different than current Americans, by what "standard" are they to be excluded?

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 08-09-2018 2:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30718
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 25 of 156 (837822)
08-09-2018 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
08-09-2018 2:38 PM


Re: Standards versus chaos
Faith writes:

I'm for bias and bigotry if it means excluding criminals, jihadists and leftists/communists/ and people who poop on sidewalks..

Too funny.

You certainly are worthy of a chuckle or three.

Open borders does not mean it becomes legal to commit crimes in the US and being a leftist or communist is not illegal in the US anyway.

But your bigotry does shine through.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 08-09-2018 2:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19544
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 26 of 156 (837823)
08-09-2018 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
08-09-2018 3:55 PM


lucky they didn't lock me up ...
The standards are still there and that was the norm for most of my life; you arrived at a border and when leaving they waved at you and when entering they asked you a few questions. The same process in reverse happened when you returned. No passports were needed in either direction and the system worked.

Similar for us crossing the border to Canada. We even used Canadian coins at par value. I was amused when I went to North Carolina and was buying some food, and the cashier stopped, looked down, picked up the Canadian penny I had put down and said "I'm sorry sir, we do not take foreign currency here" ... a penny.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 08-09-2018 3:55 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 08-09-2018 4:06 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30718
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 27 of 156 (837824)
08-09-2018 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by RAZD
08-09-2018 3:59 PM


Re: lucky they didn't lock me up ...
And speaking of Jhadists; all of the 9-11 terrorists entered the US with valid Visas. None of them waded the Rio Grande or wandered through the scrub or suffered the 100+ temperatures for a hike of tens of miles without water or supplies.

Faith is simply totally disconnected from reality.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by RAZD, posted 08-09-2018 3:59 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14920
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 28 of 156 (837825)
08-09-2018 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
08-09-2018 2:38 PM


Re: Standards versus chaos
Faith writes:

I'm for bias and bigotry if it means excluding... leftists/communists....


It does, but I bet I could get in.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 08-09-2018 2:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 08-09-2018 4:35 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30718
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 29 of 156 (837826)
08-09-2018 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by ringo
08-09-2018 4:25 PM


Re: Standards versus chaos
I wonder if Faith supports letting in the Rightist/Fascists?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 08-09-2018 4:25 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
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Posts: 7519
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 30 of 156 (837827)
08-09-2018 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
08-09-2018 2:38 PM


Re: Standards versus chaos
Faith writes:

I'm for bias and bigotry if it means excluding criminals, jihadists and leftists/communists/ and people who poop on sidewalks..

If that is the case, then there wouldn't be a President Donald Trump. The first Trump to immigrate to the US (Frederick Trump) started a restaurant that included "female companionship", otherwise known as prostitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Trump


This message is a reply to:
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