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Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
Faith
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Posts: 24398
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 286 of 517 (805611)
04-19-2017 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Dr Adequate
04-19-2017 3:03 PM


Re: Re::Grand Canyon is the result of Noah's Flood
I'm not talking about the shape of the walls, I'm talking about the width of the canyon.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-19-2017 3:03 PM Dr Adequate has responded

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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15753
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 287 of 517 (805617)
04-19-2017 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by Faith
04-19-2017 1:30 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
All that broken-up strata flowing downhill could be described as violent in its effects in some places, as huge amounts of debris-laden water flows back to its former sea level.

Once again, it wouldn't flow downhill. There wouldn't be a downhill.

The prevailing idea that the strata represent time periods is truly absurd. Separated sediments for starters would be a very unlikely result of millions of years of life on earth. Then their lying horizontally one on top of another with no signs of anything similar to what is seen on the earth's surface today, just flatness, plus their containing an abundance of dead things, is NOT what the surface of the earth normally does, but exactly what the Flood would have done. That was its purpose, after all, to wipe out all living things on the land. A lot of sea life died too, of course.

You remember how you sometimes claim to have read my geology textbook?

I suggest that you do so.

Oh I see. It's your training as a psychoanalyst that tells you the fault is in my personality, we don't need to consider my actual arguments.

But you do object when we look too closely. This is not a question of psychoanalysis, this is just what you do.

Apparently you, like too many other so-called Christians, don't care a fig whether the Bible is treated as a myth and Christians as delusional believers in a fake "sky wizard." I don't understand that attitude. Defending the faith as well s we can is our calling.

Painting a red clown nose on the face of Christ crucified does not defend the faith.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 1:30 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15753
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 288 of 517 (805618)
04-19-2017 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Faith
04-19-2017 3:04 PM


Re: Re::Grand Canyon is the result of Noah's Flood
I'm not talking about the shape of the walls, I'm talking about the width of the canyon.

A distinction without a difference.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 3:04 PM Faith has not yet responded

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jar
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Posts: 28667
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 289 of 517 (805619)
04-19-2017 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by Faith
04-19-2017 1:30 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
Faith writes:

Apparently you, like too many other so-called Christians, don't care a fig whether the Bible is treated as a myth and Christians as delusional believers in a fake "sky wizard." I don't understand that attitude. Defending the faith as well s we can is our calling.

I agree Faith which is why I point out when you pervert and misrepresent what the Bible says or try to pretend it is inerrant and without error or not simply written by humans and reflect the beliefs of their time and culture.

I try to defend the faith against those who try to make Christians look ignorant and Christianity look stupid.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 1:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 3:36 PM jar has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28667
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 290 of 517 (805621)
04-19-2017 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Dr Adequate
04-19-2017 3:14 PM


Re: Re::Grand Canyon is the result of Noah's Flood
DrA writes:

I'm not talking about the shape of the walls, I'm talking about the width of the canyon.

A distinction without a difference.

What is the shape of a canyon without walls? It is a prairie. Not exactly the image of the Grand Canyon.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-19-2017 3:14 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

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Faith
Member
Posts: 24398
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 291 of 517 (805625)
04-19-2017 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by jar
04-19-2017 3:18 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
Yes I should have anticipated that twist. Amazing how many ways there are to destroy the truth.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by jar, posted 04-19-2017 3:18 PM jar has not yet responded

    
Faith
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Posts: 24398
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 292 of 517 (805626)
04-19-2017 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by jar
04-19-2017 3:21 PM


Re: Re::Grand Canyon is the result of Noah's Flood
And amazing how many ways there are to misunderstand what one would think was a simple point. The shape of the walls means their widening toward the top, not their nonexistence. Sigh.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by jar, posted 04-19-2017 3:21 PM jar has responded

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 Message 293 by jar, posted 04-19-2017 3:44 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28667
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 293 of 517 (805629)
04-19-2017 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Faith
04-19-2017 3:37 PM


Re: Re::Grand Canyon is the result of Noah's Flood
Faith writes:

And amazing how many ways there are to misunderstand what one would think was a simple point. The shape of the walls means their widening toward the top, not their nonexistence. Sigh.

Exactly Faith. The shape seen at the Grand Canyon is a classic example of what a relatively slow moving river creates over long periods of time as opposed to what is created by either a flood or glacier.

Changes leave evidence and that evidence is the witness to what happened in the past.

The Grand canyon is simply yet more evidence there was never a Biblical Flood at least during the time the canyon existed.

But of course the Bible itself is great evidence that neither of the Biblical Flood myths were ever to be taken as literal since there are two different mutually exclusive folktales as well as absurdities like the green olive branch or the idea that 40 days and 40 nights of rain could actually flood much of anything other than a plain.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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NoNukes
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Posts: 9431
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.8


(4)
Message 294 of 517 (805632)
04-19-2017 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by Faith
04-19-2017 1:30 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
The Bible doesn't say much at all to allow us to conclude just how quiet it was or wasn't.

I would suggest that we can draw some conclusions, but let's take your statements at face value. If we cannot conclude anything about the force of the Flood, when you talk about carving the Grand Canyon in less than one year, by your own admission, you are speculating well beyond the words of the Bible. When you claim that some caves in France and Spain were carved by the Flood without citing a single geological feature, and without any description whatsoever of what France or Spain looked like before the flood, you are talking even more trash.

Yes, I understand that you can draw some stuff from the Bible and extrapolate, but given that when talking about regions of the world well outside of the middle east, on which the Bible is utterly silent regarding the pre-flood terrain, you are not extrapolating at all. You are simply making up stuff out of whole cloth based merely on the Bible saying there was a flood.

If this is a Bible study forum in which real science is off topic, then certainly made up BS, commonly know as Creation Science, particularly the stuff you make up on your own, isn't really germane either. You ought at least to point to some commentary etc.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 1:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 6:42 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9431
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 295 of 517 (805633)
04-19-2017 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by Faith
04-19-2017 1:17 AM


Re: On "opinions"
It ought to be unarguable that a written document describing events in the past, that has lots of agreement from account to account, gives clues to how to date the events, mentions historical real-world kings and leaders that can be tracked extrabiblically

We might say the same thing about the Illiad.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 1:17 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 6:39 PM NoNukes has responded

    
Astrophile
Member
Posts: 58
From: United Kingdom
Joined: 02-10-2014


Message 296 of 517 (805642)
04-19-2017 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Dr Adequate
04-19-2017 1:34 AM


Re: On "opinions"
No it should not. I could write such a document myself. I could put in lots of real kings and battles and dates, and also a bit about how the world was vomited up 10000 years ago by a mutant space goat. And the true bits wouldn't verify the made-up bit.

Or I could simply compile together everything that some nation other than the Jews (let's say the ancient Greeks) wrote about their history and the history of the world. I could bind all that stuff together into one book and call it the Biblos. And none of the verifiable bits that turned out to be good history would add one shred of confirmation to the myth of Prometheus.

The fact that King Hygelac's raid into Frisia, described in Beowulf, is a historical event of the early 6th century doesn't mean that the monster Grendel and his mother actually existed.


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Faith
Member
Posts: 24398
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 297 of 517 (805643)
04-19-2017 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Astrophile
04-19-2017 5:34 PM


Re: On "opinions"
Nobody treats Beowulf as a historical document to live your life by. And it only has one author unlike the Bible which was written by many different authors over about 1500 years all agreeing with each other and teaching the same doctrine through different historical events. It's so silly to make such comparisons.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 24398
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 298 of 517 (805644)
04-19-2017 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by NoNukes
04-19-2017 3:55 PM


Re: On "opinions"
To the extent that it is historical then I would assume its dates are useful for tracking historical events. That doesn't make it anything at all like the Bibble. See previous post on Beowulf.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by NoNukes, posted 04-19-2017 3:55 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 24398
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 299 of 517 (805645)
04-19-2017 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by NoNukes
04-19-2017 3:51 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
I do happen to think my extrapolations about what the Flood would have done, which are pretty much in line with most creationist thinking, make your silly thoughts hardly worth reading.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by NoNukes, posted 04-19-2017 3:51 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28667
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 300 of 517 (805646)
04-19-2017 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by Faith
04-19-2017 6:37 PM


more just plain not true assertions
Faith writes:

Nobody treats Beowulf as a historical document to live your life by. And it only has one author unlike the Bible which was written by many different authors over about 1500 years all agreeing with each other and teaching the same doctrine through different historical events. It's so silly to make such comparisons.

Except of course, that is simply not true Faith. Not all the authors of the Bible stories agreed with each other or taught the same doctrine. The fact that there are at least two different flood myths and two different creation myths including two entirely different descriptions of the God Character are clear and compelling evidence that the authors certainly did not agree with each other.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 6:37 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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