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Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
Tanypteryx
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Posts: 1577
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 826 of 1352 (808309)
05-10-2017 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 825 by Faith
05-09-2017 11:54 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
And about mudslides, if you can figure out how it could rain for forty days and nights without producing prodigious mudslides, please enlighten.

Magic.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 827 of 1352 (808326)
05-10-2017 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 825 by Faith
05-09-2017 11:54 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Faith writes:

And about mudslides, if you can figure out how it could rain for forty days and nights without producing prodigious mudslides, please enlighten.

There is nothing to figure out Faith; we simply need to look at what is happening now.

Mudslides only happen in limited places.

Forty days and forty nights of rain will not dissolve rock.

No mudslide has ever scoured the land flat.

Hell, even the Bible can't get the details of the supposed flood straight; either one or both of the stories has to be false.

Yet that small detail (that the Bible itself refutes the Biblical flood having happened) pales in the face of several facts:

The Pando tree has been around for tens of thousands of years and never spent a year under water.

The Jurupa Oak has been around over ten thousand years and never spent a year under water.

Old Tikko has been around since before the Garden of Eden without ever spending a year under water.

And Lomatia tasmanica has been cloning itself now for at least 40 thousand years.

And there are Bristlecone pines that have been living for over 5000 years.

The Flood never happened.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Replies to this message:
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Admin
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Posts: 12527
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 828 of 1352 (808342)
05-10-2017 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 821 by Faith
05-09-2017 8:41 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Just a quick correction, since no one else caught this:

Faith writes:

Well there are places with no geological column, but you do seem to be forgetting the oceans, where there is also no geological column.

The geologic column also exists beneath the oceans. Most of the sea floor has a maximum age of only a couple hundred million years because the ultimate fate of most sea floor is subduction into the mantle.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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Replies to this message:
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Faith
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Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 829 of 1352 (808348)
05-10-2017 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 828 by Admin
05-10-2017 10:32 AM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
OK fine but ringo was talking about whales swimming over the land as if he'd forgotten there was an ocean.
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Faith
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Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 830 of 1352 (808350)
05-10-2017 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 827 by jar
05-10-2017 7:02 AM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Forty days and nights of constant rain all over the entire earth would cause mudslides whether or not there were also rocks.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 827 by jar, posted 05-10-2017 7:02 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 831 of 1352 (808357)
05-10-2017 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 824 by edge
05-09-2017 11:06 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
It's just wonderful how good you are at ignoring the obvious fact that a stack of sedimentary rocks is the highly unlikely outcome of time periods in which creatures supposedly lived. Do you really expect our own "time period," with all its mountains and valleys and so on, to ultimately reduce down to a few flat 0layers of sediment spread over hundreds or thousands of square miles, just like all the others supposedly did? I don't know why this isn't screamingly obvious to you or anybody else. Perhaps it is but you can't give up the status quo? All that intellectual stimulation and so on? So much for scientific objectivity.

And the idea that the sediments would mix together, natural and commonsensical though the idea would seem to be, is contradicted by all kinds of experiments: even water at high velocity sorts out sediments into layers, as Berthault's flume experiments show, plus his observation of a high stack of layers produced by a flooding river; and when water is simply standing sediments also precipitate out into layers.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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Coyote
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Posts: 5988
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 832 of 1352 (808367)
05-10-2017 11:30 AM


Davidjay: "Notice how I always answer queries"
I posted this to Davidjay a couple of times (see Message 3) and prodded him for an answer a dozen times. He has never come up with a meaningful reply.

Coyote writes:

My own archaeological research disproves the global flood ca. 4500 years ago. Research by my colleagues disproves it thousands of times over.

In my research I have continuity of human cultures from before to after the date of the flood, and most importantly I have mitochondrial DNA of the same type extending from before to after that date. If there was such a flood, the earlier mtDNA haplotype would be eliminated, to be replaced by a type from the Middle East.

A few other little details: there is no evidence of the erosional or depositional features that would necessarily associate with such a flood in the area I study.

But if you truly want to see the features left by flood erosion, google "channeled scablands" and look at the images. Some notable examples are from central and eastern Washington:

The nice thing about the flood evidence in Washington is that we can date the events and we know the cause! They occurred between 18,000 and 13,000 years ago, and resulted from formation and breakage of ice dams upstream.

Oh, and this evidence is about three or four times older than the purported global flood. How is it that we see the evidence of those older floods but not evidence of a much larger and much more recent flood?

(Answer: it didn't happen.)

So, don't be claiming that the flood is TRVE history. It is a belief, not a fact.

So, Davidjay, here's your big chance to "prove" the global flood ca. 4500 years ago. But you should be aware that all the mathematical models you can concoct won't overturn the huge amounts of real-world evidence that shows there was no such flood.

Maybe you could also address my archaeological research, cited above--which you ignored on the previous thread?

Your continual avoidance of this evidence shows that your claim, "Notice how I always answer queries" is as bogus as the rest of your posts.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


  
jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 833 of 1352 (808369)
05-10-2017 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 830 by Faith
05-10-2017 10:53 AM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Faith writes:

Forty days and nights of constant rain all over the entire earth would cause mudslides whether or not there were also rocks.

And we know what such mudslides would look like. They would not scour the land flat.

Faith, change leaves evidence. What has not ever been found is any evidence of some world-wide flood. It does not matter how many times you claim the evidence is the strata the strata say you are wrong.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 830 by Faith, posted 05-10-2017 10:53 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 834 of 1352 (808390)
05-10-2017 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 833 by jar
05-10-2017 11:40 AM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Faith, change leaves evidence. What has not ever been found is any evidence of some world-wide flood. It does not matter how many times you claim the evidence is the strata the strata say you are wrong.

This is really hilarious the way this obvious denial of reality is clung to by everybody here. The strata full of dead things are IN-YOUR-FACE EVIDENCE both for a worldwide Flood and against the preposterous idea that they represent time periods that then all collapsed down into stratified rock.

I know it would cost all the sophisticated evos here enormously to just pry open one eye to a slit and take a squint at this obvious fact because it could threaten your whole worldview, your livelihood, and especially your egos to consider it for half a second.

I sympathize, I really do because it happened to me when I became a Christian, and later a creationist as well, that I lost most of my friends, all really in the end, have to tolerate from nonChristian family and even some Christian friends a pretty total void in acknowledgement of all the things that matter most to me, all for the sake of continuing to have any kind of relationship at all, and then of course I also have to put up with being treated like the village idiot at EvC and so on. Who wants it?

But the strata/fossils is such obvious evidence for the Flood and against the Geo Time Scale I have to imagine some such reason for refusing to recognize it. Paradigmosis will do up to a point but I think we're beyond that point.


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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
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Posts: 13110
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 835 of 1352 (808391)
05-10-2017 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 834 by Faith
05-10-2017 1:48 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
quote:

This is really hilarious the way this obvious denial of reality is clung to by everybody here

The obvious reality is that the Flood cannot explain geology.

You have no viable explanation for the results of radiometric dating - or any of the other dating methods that might apply.

You have no viable explanation for the order of the fossil record.

You have no viable explanation for angular unconformities.

While you attempt to explain away evidence of buried terrain features they still kill your claim that such evidence does not exist. Massive monadnocks, buried canyons, river courses, forests.

That is reality and you are the one who denies it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 834 by Faith, posted 05-10-2017 1:48 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 836 of 1352 (808392)
05-10-2017 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 835 by PaulK
05-10-2017 1:58 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
The reality of the strata and fossils trumps all of that.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 835 by PaulK, posted 05-10-2017 1:58 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 13110
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 837 of 1352 (808394)
05-10-2017 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 836 by Faith
05-10-2017 2:02 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
The order of the fossil record is a major part of the reality of the fossils. Not something you can just discard because it proves you wrong. And there is much more to the starts than you will admit to - much of it again confirming old ages and disconfirmimg your Flood geology.

The reality of the strata and the fossils is not just cherry-picked impressions - it's all of it, everything that is actually there, even the things you want suppressed.

The reality of the strata and the fossils trumps your opinions. And THAT is why we disagree with you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 836 by Faith, posted 05-10-2017 2:02 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 838 by Faith, posted 05-10-2017 2:20 PM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 838 of 1352 (808395)
05-10-2017 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 837 by PaulK
05-10-2017 2:12 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Righto, all the bits and pieces of this and that found within a layer of sedimentary rock tell you that the rock itself or a few layers of rock, were once a whole earth scenario of living things that collapsed down in the end to the rock spanning thousands of square miles on which nothing at all could live. That's SO reasonable.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1577
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 839 of 1352 (808397)
05-10-2017 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 836 by Faith
05-10-2017 2:02 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
The reality of the strata and fossils trumps all of that.

The reality of the strata and fossils trumps magic and your magic flood. That's all you have....magic.

Every thread where this discussion has gone on with you, that is what your argument depends on, magic, not evidence.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 836 by Faith, posted 05-10-2017 2:02 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13110
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 840 of 1352 (808406)
05-10-2017 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 838 by Faith
05-10-2017 2:20 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
quote:

Righto, all the bits and pieces of this and that found within a layer of sedimentary rock tell you that the rock itself or a few layers of rock, were once a whole earth scenario of living things that collapsed down in the end to the rock spanning thousands of square miles on which nothing at all could live. That's SO reasonable.

Even your attempted parodies are no worse than some of your crazy rationalisations.

Let us first note that you are -again - ignoring the reality of buried terrain features.

Suppose I find an area of limestone cleared by quarrying, and it is full of small shells - and occasionally large ones - fragments of sea urchin spine and test, bits of crinoid stem sometimes even pieces of coral. Why should I assume that a flood created that, rather than normal deposition on a shallow sea bed ?

Or with the Yellowstone forests, why should we assume a flood when the burying material is volcanic and the trees appear to be rooted in - what was - a developing soil ?

Reality, Faith, trumps your opinions.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 838 by Faith, posted 05-10-2017 2:20 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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