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Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
Faith
Member
Posts: 26300
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 871 of 1352 (808535)
05-11-2017 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 865 by Taq
05-11-2017 10:35 AM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Taq writes:

Faith writes:

The strata that make up what is traditionally called the Geological Column, that also is the basis of the Geological Time Scale, covers HUGE amounts of territory, huge, some of them whole continents -- such as the layer called St. Peter Sandstone -- climbing two miles in some cases.

But that's not true. The St. Peter Sandstone does not cover the entire NA continent. Why lie about it?

You are the one lying if anyone is. I've quoted the source of this on this thread before and mentioned it a number of times. What, it didn't cover some part of the continent so I can't say "all?" It stretches across the entire continent and is also found in the UK.

Here is the source. And before you complain that it's a creationist source let me tell you that it was edge who first used it as a source, I think on this thread:

John Morris writes:

On the entire continent, no mountain remained, for the St. Peter Sandstone covers essentially the entire continent with a sheet of sand roughly three thousand miles by one thousand miles in area, yet less than 300 feet thick!

Taq writes:

There are no worldwide flood layers. There aren't even flood layers that cover a single landmass.

Where did I say there were? What do you mean by "cover?" The four strata/time periods on the NA continent in the maps that HBD posted some time ago that I've linked to many times already on this thread cover a HUGE amount of the continent.

And that's all I said.

Obviously you are the liar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 865 by Taq, posted 05-11-2017 10:35 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
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Posts: 13117
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 872 of 1352 (808540)
05-11-2017 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 871 by Faith
05-11-2017 12:36 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
quote:

Where did I say there were? What do you mean by "cover?" The four strata/time periods on the NA continent in the maps that HBD posted some time ago that I've linked to many times already on this thread cover a HUGE amount of the continent.

Can you please stop misrepresenting those diagrams ? All they show is that rocks of the appropriate age exist at those locations (and if they are at the surface).

They do NOT show the extent of any formation (let alone the extent of strata within that formation). That information is simply not present.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 871 by Faith, posted 05-11-2017 12:36 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 26300
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 873 of 1352 (808542)
05-11-2017 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 872 by PaulK
05-11-2017 12:44 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
In that case they obviously cover MORE territory than the maps show.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 13117
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 874 of 1352 (808543)
05-11-2017 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 873 by Faith
05-11-2017 12:47 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
quote:

In that case they obviously cover MORE territory than the maps show.

Would you like to explain that ? Starting with what "they" refers to.


This message is a reply to:
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Taq
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Posts: 7140
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 875 of 1352 (808545)
05-11-2017 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 871 by Faith
05-11-2017 12:36 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Faith writes:

What, it didn't cover some part of the continent so I can't say "all?"

That's correct. You are claiming that a worldwide flood is evidence by worldwide sedimentary layers. If a sedimentary layer only covers part of the world, THEN YOU CONCLUSION IS FALSIFIED. It's that simple.

It stretches across the entire continent and is also found in the UK.

By that measure, the Mississippi river covers the entire North American continent.

Where did I say there were?

"The strata that make up what is traditionally called the Geological Column, that also is the basis of the Geological Time Scale, covers HUGE amounts of territory, huge, some of them whole continents"

There is not a single sedimentary layer that covers an entire continent.


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 Message 871 by Faith, posted 05-11-2017 12:36 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 878 by Faith, posted 05-11-2017 4:40 PM Taq has responded

  
JonF
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Posts: 3961
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


(3)
Message 876 of 1352 (808546)
05-11-2017 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 869 by edge
05-11-2017 11:33 AM


Re: Six "Flood" Arguments Creationists Can't Answer
FWIW and considering you are unlikely to get an answer, the pollen is probably the old PRATT about the incompetent Clifford Burdick. See Chadwick's PRECAMBRIAN POLLEN IN THE GRAND CANYON A REEXAMINATION.

There is evidence of grasses in the Cretaceous. Dinosaurs Dined on Grass, Dinosaur Coprolites and the Early Evolution of Grasses and Grazers. Don't see how this gives anyt comfort to creationists.


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edge
Member
Posts: 3967
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 877 of 1352 (808591)
05-11-2017 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 873 by Faith
05-11-2017 12:47 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
In that case they obviously cover MORE territory than the maps show.

True enough. However, one of those places where it is not shown is to the north, on the Canadian Shield, from the Iowa-Minnesota state line to the north.

It turns out that this is where the sand for the Saint Peters Sandstone came from. It was an area that was actively being eroded with the sand being deposited on a shoreline along a southerly sea. In fact, some of the grains came from the older Potsdam Formation, a sandstone that formed during the first Paleozoic transgression that we call the Sauk Sequence. It is also noted that some of the smaller grains are wind-abraded.

What this means is that there was a land mass to the north. In other words, there was dry land in that area, therefor, no global flood.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/30063593?seq=3#page_scan_tab...

Care to discuss?

Edited by edge, : No reason given.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Removed url from subtitle. I presume it got inserted there accidentally. Such has caused problems in the past.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 26300
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 878 of 1352 (808620)
05-11-2017 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 875 by Taq
05-11-2017 12:51 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Good GREEEEEEEEF.

The Flood wouldn't have had to cover every square inch of land with a sediment layer. Surely there would have been gaps in the load carried in the water, suirely there would have been areas eroded away after deposition.

Somebody shoot me. Lethally please.


This message is a reply to:
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Taq
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Posts: 7140
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 879 of 1352 (808623)
05-11-2017 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 878 by Faith
05-11-2017 4:40 PM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Faith writes:

The Flood wouldn't have had to cover every square inch of land with a sediment layer. Surely there would have been gaps in the load carried in the water, suirely there would have been areas eroded away after deposition.

Then The Flood is completely unfalsifiable. No matter what the pattern of sedimentation is, you will claim that it is consistent with a global flood.

Worldwide sedimentary layer? The flood.

Patchy quiltwork of different sedimentary layers? The flood.

A complete mixing of all types of fossils? The flood.

A worldwide correlation of specifically sorted fossils? The flood.

Do you see the problem?


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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 880 of 1352 (808625)
05-11-2017 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 879 by Taq
05-11-2017 4:51 PM


The Flood Explains NOTHING except that some people are gullible.
What Faith can't explain using the imaginary flood is what actually exists. She cannot explain the White Cliffs of Dover.

She cannot explain the things that were alive before the flood (many before the Garden of Eden) yest have never been under water for a year.

She cannot explain the paintings and petroglyphs from before the flood (many from before the Garden of Eden) that were never under water for a year.

She cannot explain the cities that existed before and after the flood yet were not flooded.

She cannot explain the civilizations (many in the Middle East) that existed before and after the flood but never even noticed it.

Reality says that the Biblical flood never happened.

The Bible shows that the Biblical Flood never happened.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 881 of 1352 (808627)
05-11-2017 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 880 by jar
05-11-2017 5:39 PM


Re: The Flood Explains NOTHING except that some people are gullible.
Reality says that the Biblical flood never happened.

Yeah, but what about magic? Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it isn't magic.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 882 of 1352 (808631)
05-11-2017 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 881 by Tanypteryx
05-11-2017 6:00 PM


Re: The Flood Explains NOTHING except that some people are gullible.
Tanypteryx writes:

Yeah, but what about magic? Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it isn't magic.

And if Faith claimed "Magic" I'd certainly have to admit that was possible.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3537
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 883 of 1352 (808638)
05-11-2017 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 877 by edge
05-11-2017 3:15 PM


Rather trivial comment about St. Peter Sandstone
Referring to the St. Peter Sandstone:

True enough. However, one of those places where it is not shown is to the north, on the Canadian Shield, from the Iowa-Minnesota state line to the north.

Your greater point probably stands just fine, but I had to comment on your saying "no St. Peter Sandstone in Minnesota". The type locality of the St. Peter Sandstone is in Minnesota.

Offhand, I think the Paleozoic ends about half way north in Minnesota. I'm pretty sure that there are some limited Mesozoic age deposits in the iron range area, to the northwest of Lake Superior.

No reply needed.

Moose


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edge
Member
Posts: 3967
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 884 of 1352 (808641)
05-11-2017 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 883 by Minnemooseus
05-11-2017 8:14 PM


Re: Rather trivial comment about St. Peter Sandstone
Your greater point probably stands just fine, but I had to comment on your saying "no St. Peter Sandstone in Minnesota". The type locality of the St. Peter Sandstone is in Minnesota.

Offhand, I think the Paleozoic ends about half way north in Minnesota. I'm pretty sure that there are some limited Mesozoic age deposits in the iron range area, to the northwest of Lake Superior.


I reread the article to see where I went awry on that one.

It says that the shoreline fluctuated across southern Minnesota and some wholly terrestrial deposits occur there. South of the state line the sands are all marine.

Thanks for the catch.


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ICANT
Member
Posts: 5625
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 885 of 1352 (809056)
05-16-2017 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 862 by Faith
05-11-2017 1:36 AM


Re: The Flood Explains ... most things geological
Hi Faith,

Faith writes:

YEC is not based on Ellen G White. I never read White but I've read plenty of creationism and none of it refers to E G White or SDA or any of that..

Walt Brown the Director of the Center for Scientific Creation proposed the Hydroplate Theory. In this theory rocks and water is blasted into space. A 5 mile thick llayer of rock is blown apart and into space and returned to earth and formed the layers we have in the earth today. This had to take place in less than a year and be compacted to withstand 22,000 psi that oil is under that is in the deep wells such as Verizon.

But since he was born in 1937 his theory is relatively young.

Ellen Gould Harmond White was born November 26, 1827 and died July 16, 1915. Her and her husband along with others formed what became known as the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

At the age of nine, she was severely injured in the face by a stone and was unconscious, for three weeks. From the time she was 17 until she was 70 she claimed God gave her near 2,000 dreams and visions. She wrote 5,000 periodical articles and 40 books. From her manuscripts another 60+ books have been compiled.

quote:
Then "the fountains of the great deep" were "broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." Water appeared to come from the clouds in mighty cataracts. Rivers broke away from their boundaries, and overflowed the valleys. Jets of water burst from the earth with indescribable force, throwing massive rocks hundreds of feet into the air, and these, in falling, buried themselves deep in the ground.

The people first beheld the destruction of the works of their own hands. Their splendid buildings, and the beautiful gardens and groves where they had placed their idols, were destroyed by lightning from heaven, and the ruins were scattered far and wide. The altars on which human sacrifices had been offered were torn down, and the worshipers were made to tremble at the power of the living God, and to know that it was their corruption and idolatry which had called down their destruction.

As the violence of the storm increased, trees, buildings, rocks, and earth were hurled in every direction. The terror of man and beast was beyond description. Above the roar of the tempest was heard the wailing of a people that had despised the authority of God. Satan himself, who was compelled to remain in the midst of the warring elements, feared for his own existence. He had delighted to control so powerful a race, and desired them to live to practice their abominations and continue their rebellion against the Ruler of heaven. He now uttered imprecations against God,



Patriarchs and Prophets written 1866 Chapter 7 Page 99 The Flood found here http://www.whiteestate.org/books/pp/pp.asp

Now if you can find evidence of such a description of the flood prior to 1866 I will stop mentioning Ellen G. White as the original source of the catastrophic flood story.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
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