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Author Topic:   Laws happened by accident ? and did Laws evolve ?
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15753
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 16 of 91 (804833)
04-13-2017 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Davidjay
04-13-2017 11:31 AM


Re: Inadequate Response Adequate
Do explain adequately, Dr. Adequate how the Big Bang explosion was directed in its explosion... or was not an explosion.

Was it a nice quiet bang, was it an organized focused designed bang by Mother Nature in outer space ?

I am very interested in your statement that the Big Bang was not an explosion.

Do explain yourself adequately.

Which part of "not an explosion" is giving you difficulty?

And do see if you can get other evolutionists to agree with you.

Ask Percy, I would think he would disagree with you.

And you are as usual ridiculously wrong.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Davidjay, posted 04-13-2017 11:31 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
Percy
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Posts: 15560
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 17 of 91 (804842)
04-13-2017 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Davidjay
04-13-2017 11:26 AM


Re: Verry Good Percy,
Davidjay writes:

Their theory is that a Big Bang Explosion caused the laws of the Universe,...

Physics doesn't actually know if the Big Bang caused the laws of the universe. They may or may not have predated the Big Bang.

Their theory is that a Big Bang Explosion caused the laws of the Universe, and then their theory states that by chance or luck thereafter, maybe an eon or two chemicals just magically created life.
...
I agree evolutionists do not know and have no answer for amazing laws and chemicals that just so called happened to be created with a magic Big Bang Explosion.

Evolution is neither a theory of cosmology nor of the origin of life.

So again Percy admits that evolution is sheerly by luck and chance.

Evolution is descent with modification and natural selection. Descent with modification can include random changes, but selection is not random.

Well first, this assumes there is such a thing as a magical lucky mutation or roll of the dice that actually benefits an organism. Secondly, if this magically produced mutation actually works then it proves that selection is not at random.

Whether a mutation is successful or not, whether it was selected for or against, selection is a non-random process imposed by the environment. The degree of successful adaptation governs the degree of success of a species.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Davidjay, posted 04-13-2017 11:26 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Davidjay, posted 04-14-2017 11:35 AM Percy has responded

    
Percy
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Posts: 15560
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 18 of 91 (804847)
04-13-2017 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Davidjay
04-13-2017 11:31 AM


Re: Inadequate Response Adequate
Davidjay writes:

I am very interested in your statement that the Big Bang was not an explosion.
...
Ask Percy, I would think he would disagree with you.

The Big Bang, the term originating as one of ridicule by Fred Hoyle, was not an explosion but a very rapid expansion, especially the period of inflation. (Hoyle preferred a steady state theory of the universe.)

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Davidjay, posted 04-13-2017 11:31 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 04-13-2017 12:06 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 43 by Davidjay, posted 04-17-2017 10:25 AM Percy has responded

    
Percy
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Posts: 15560
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(3)
Message 19 of 91 (804849)
04-13-2017 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Davidjay
04-13-2017 11:34 AM


Re: Percy, there were no laws before the Big Bang ?
Davidjay writes:

According to you Percy, the Big Bang created the laws of the Universe.

Physics does not know if the laws of the universe predated the Big Bang.

Then logically, there were no laws before the Big Bang. Right or Wrong.

We don't know what came before the Big Bang, though there are some hypotheses. Keep in mind that there was no time in our universe before the Big Bang, so concepts like "before the Big Bang" do not have much meaning.

If wrong, and if in your opinion there were laws before the Big Bang, and then the Big Bang made some more laws, then new laws would have been created afterwards.... and you could state that laws evolved in your theory.

What say ye, or what theorize ye ?

I you're asking me personally, then I don't know. Observational evidence indicates that the laws of the universe have remained unchanged since the Big Bang. Concerning the laws of the universe, there is no evidence indicating a process of descent with modification and natural selection, so evolution wouldn't apply.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 12912
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 20 of 91 (804850)
04-13-2017 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Percy
04-13-2017 11:58 AM


Re: Inadequate Response Adequate
Percy writes:

The Big Bang... was not an explosion but a very rapid expansion....


I'm not very happy with that distinction. According to Wikipedia:
quote:
An explosion is a rapid increase in volume and release of energy in an extreme manner, usually with the generation of high temperatures and the release of gases. link

Sounds fairly big-bangish to me.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Percy, posted 04-13-2017 11:58 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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ramoss
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Posts: 3016
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 6.5


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Message 21 of 91 (804852)
04-13-2017 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by ringo
04-13-2017 12:06 PM


Re: Inadequate Response Adequate
Except, there isn't any 'release of energy' in the big bang. There isn't anyplace for the energy to be released to. There is a dissipation of energy that is there, but that is just because there is more space for that energy to fill up.

However, one issue I have with the whole 'laws of nature' discussion about 'created'.. the so called 'laws of nature' are not prohibitive, but rather descriptive. IT isn't 'THis is what can't happened' but rather 'this is what we observe happening'.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 04-13-2017 12:06 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 12912
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 22 of 91 (804854)
04-13-2017 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by ramoss
04-13-2017 12:11 PM


Re: Inadequate Response Adequate
ramoss writes:

Except, there isn't any 'release of energy' in the big bang.


Fair enough - but it's a pretty nit-picky distinction. The Big Bang was a one-off, after all, so I see no problem with calling it a "unique explosion".
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jar
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Posts: 28667
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 23 of 91 (804855)
04-13-2017 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by ramoss
04-13-2017 12:11 PM


Re: Inadequate Response Adequate
And there is evidence for those things happening.

Yet no evidence of any creator.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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NoNukes
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Posts: 9431
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 24 of 91 (804856)
04-13-2017 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Davidjay
04-13-2017 11:26 AM


Re: Verry Good Percy,
Percy evolutionists can have no opinion as they say, there is no connection between evolution or the origins of life with the creation of elements and laws at the start of Creation with the Big Bang Explosion.

I have an opinion, and you have an opinion. Neither of us have proof. You just assert your opinion and then complain that others have not offered any proof.

You are are a sham.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


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JonF
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Posts: 3512
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 25 of 91 (804857)
04-13-2017 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Davidjay
04-13-2017 11:31 AM


Re: Inadequate Response Adequate
Do explain adequately, Dr. Adequate how the Big Bang explosion was directed in its explosion... or was not an explosion.

The name does not indicate what it describes. "Big Bang" was a pejorative name for the theory coined by Sir Fred Hoyle, and then widely adopted. An explosion is matter and energy moving through space, the Big Bang was an expansion of space.

Big Bang: Expansion, NOT Explosion

And man other easily found explanations.

And do see if you can get other evolutionists to agree with you.

We all do.

Ask Percy, I would think he would disagree with you.

I haven't looked yet but he doesn't disagree.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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JonF
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Posts: 3512
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 26 of 91 (804858)
04-13-2017 12:54 PM



  
New Cat's Eye
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Posts: 11236
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


(2)
Message 27 of 91 (804859)
04-13-2017 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Davidjay
04-13-2017 11:26 AM


Re: Verry Good Percy,
To exist, intelligence has to come from an intelligent non random source.

According to that logic, God cannot be intelligent if he didn't come from an intelligent non random source.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Davidjay, posted 04-13-2017 11:26 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Davidjay, posted 04-14-2017 11:41 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Davidjay
Member
Posts: 366
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 28 of 91 (804939)
04-14-2017 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Percy
04-13-2017 11:52 AM


Re: Evolution doesnt deal with origins of laws or life !
Selection ONLY works if there is a magic beneficial mutation.

It is therefore totally null and void if there is not amazing enough shakes of the dice, with tranistion phases of no help retained after one mutation to another. Hence, in adding to your impossible probability of supposed beneficial minor changes, a whole system change or organ change, etc etc would take the retension of mutations that are not signifcant nor selected magically even though being valueless, to all add up eventually to a signifcant so called beneficial mutation change. An absolute miracle by any standard. And without even viable transition species that failed in their organ mutational so called change again, no evidence exists of these magical random beneficial changes, that so called evolved living organisms.

But let me get back to the TOPIC, its laws. And honest Percy admits evolution hasn;t a clue about the origin of life, nor about what or who created the laws.

Hence I would suggest, He is RIGHT evolution doesnt have anything to do with the origins of life, or the origins of the laws of life and non life.

Consequently all evolutionists can honestly say HERE is that , they have no idea. To this I agree 100 percent


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 31 by Tangle, posted 04-14-2017 11:46 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
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Davidjay
Member
Posts: 366
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 29 of 91 (804940)
04-14-2017 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by New Cat's Eye
04-13-2017 1:09 PM


Re: Very Poor Cats Eye
God is ETERNAL, God or if you like Jesus was the ALPHA and OMEGA, and as He said always was.

Remember He created time (SEE just started Light Speed Years, or Daniel 9, or 1000 Years or Genesis 1, etc etc..)

Beyond light speed, there is no time but only the ETERNAL NOW.

Thats math, thats physics, thats the truth.

The Lord always was, He is the originator, and originated.

Evolution as Percy says has no idea when life was created or when much less why.

Back to the topic and showing that laws were created at one time, by the Lord, the Creator as evolutionists are admitting that evolution has nothing to say about the origins of life or the origins of the laws.

They can theorise if they choose, but they if consistent with their wild unproven theory, should only say, its all by chance, and most likely hapened or evolved step by step with each successive law, being selected by a mutational law change, until magically all laws balanced out and made life viable all by chance.

It looks like we have a winner.

Laws do not evolve !! And did not evolve .


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-13-2017 1:09 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
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Posts: 5649
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 30 of 91 (804941)
04-14-2017 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Davidjay
04-14-2017 11:35 AM


Re: Evolution doesnt deal with origins of laws or life !
Consequently all evolutionists can honestly say HERE is that , they have no idea. To this I agree 100 percent

And you, of course, are going to enlighten us?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

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Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


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