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Author Topic:   Laws happened by accident ? and did Laws evolve ?
Tanypteryx
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Posts: 1592
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 91 of 114 (806339)
04-24-2017 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Davidjay
04-24-2017 11:59 AM


Yes, I am a science type and not ;iterary type, I prefered going into nature, and the great outdoors, or playing golf, basketball, or baseball rather than reading and being a GEEK.

Yes, it shows. I can't imagine anything worse than someone thinking you are a GEEK!

Yup I am a pecker, as I hated having to pay someone to type upf my essays and thesises etc. etc....

I have no idea what this has to do with the "Laws of the Universe" you claim to be such an expert about.

And as any true biologist knows, the FIRST LAW of Biology of the Creator, was be fruitful and multiply...

It is interesting that biologists working in all the different biological fields almost never see a need to call themselves "true biologists". It is even more interesting that I have never seen the "FIRST LAW of Biology of the Creator" listed in a single biology textbook or anywhere else for that matter in my whole life.

I may be wrong, but judging from what you have babbled so far, I think you just made that up.

Thats the LAW of the Universe, but it takes a mature audience to discuss, and so lets not discuss it HERE.

So, you don't think we should discuss the "LAW of the Universe" in a thread that you started to discuss whether the laws are accidental or evolved?

So, YOU are not mature enough to discuss it? I'm shocked!

I win again, and have answered you and added to the discussion.

Yeah, right.....Grow up!

Evolutionists dont know the REPRODUCTION LAWS let alone the laws of the UNIVERSE.

Apparently, neither do you. You listed ONE measly, made up law that you are afraid to discuss.

You are admitting that you know absolutely nothing about the "LAWS of the Universe" since you cannot even state what they are or what they mean.

I win again since you don't have the balls even tell us how many laws there are, what they say, or what they mean.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Davidjay, posted 04-24-2017 11:59 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Stile, posted 04-25-2017 9:38 AM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

    
Stile
Member
Posts: 3044
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 92 of 114 (806378)
04-25-2017 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Tanypteryx
04-24-2017 4:36 PM


Next.
Tanypteryx writes:

Davidjay writes:

And as any true biologist knows, the FIRST LAW of Biology of the Creator, was be fruitful and multiply...

It is interesting that biologists working in all the different biological fields almost never see a need to call themselves "true biologists". It is even more interesting that I have never seen the "FIRST LAW of Biology of the Creator" listed in a single biology textbook or anywhere else for that matter in my whole life.

I may be wrong, but judging from what you have babbled so far, I think you just made that up.

It is also interesting to note that this FIRST LAW is broken many, many times.
In fact, 99.9% of all living things ever were not fruitful and did not multiply. They died out and did not survive.

This "law" is only followed by 0.01% of creatures that ever existed, and generally it's followed quite poorly.

I don't think Davidjay understands what the use of the term "Law" means in science.

*A scientific "Law" isn't something you try to achieve or else something bad happens... that's more of a guideline.
*A scientific "Law" is something that is simply impossible to change.

Like gravity... you can apply a force stronger than gravity in order to counter-balance or even overcome the force of gravity.
But you cannot "not follow" the Law of gravity. It's there, it exists, for everyone, for all time.

This FIRST LAW of biology of Davidjay's seems to be something almost all creatures simply ignored their entire lives. Not overcame or overpowered or dealt with, but simply ignored... like it wasn't even there. As if it wasn't really a "law" in the first place.
It doesn't seem to be much of a guideline even... let alone a law.

It is not possible for any living (or dead) thing to "ignore" the law of gravity. You can't just turn it off and deal with the consequences. That's why it's a law... because it cannot be 'turned off.'

*...as much as the term "Law" is used scientifically, anyway...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-24-2017 4:36 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Theodoric, posted 04-25-2017 11:24 AM Stile has acknowledged this reply
 Message 94 by Davidjay, posted 04-26-2017 1:39 AM Stile has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 9.6


Message 93 of 114 (806395)
04-25-2017 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Stile
04-25-2017 9:38 AM


Re: Next.
The root of DavidJay's problem is willful ignorance. I tried spoon feeding the definition of a scientific law. He refused to take the opportunity to understand the basics of the subject he wants to discuss. There can be no rational discussion with a person that refuses to understand the absolute basics of the subject matter.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Stile, posted 04-25-2017 9:38 AM Stile has acknowledged this reply

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 94 of 114 (806489)
04-26-2017 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Stile
04-25-2017 9:38 AM


Re: Next.
Thank God, evolutionists dont know about biological reproduction and surely even sexual reproduction.... or maybe thats the only time they are real and down to Earth. At least, as I have told you over and over again, nothing you learned or didn;t learn is passed onto the genes of your kids. You have to intimidate them into your religion AFTER they are born, but still the choice is theirs.

Anyway, the 1st LAW of the Lord was be fruitful and MULTIPLY. Its not hard, its a pleasure to obey the Lord, unless you are bitter and arrogant and not thankful for what has been given us. Read Genesis 1, both naked, and both fully developed and hormonal, and told to have sex, and reproduce.

Its not the big bang, but the most awesome bang of all time, and started it off with a multiplication.

Jesus created SEX, and sex could not have mutated perfectly together over millions and billions of years. But thats a new topic, that evolutionists can not face.... or answer ... or consider...as they run away screaming and cry foul foul....

Jesus wins, two become one and produce a third.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Stile, posted 04-25-2017 9:38 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Admin, posted 04-26-2017 8:02 AM Davidjay has responded
 Message 96 by Stile, posted 04-26-2017 8:24 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12536
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 95 of 114 (806524)
04-26-2017 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Davidjay
04-26-2017 1:39 AM


Re: Next.
Hi Davaidjay,

This is from your opening post:

Davidjay writes:

Lets discuss and consider whether or not the laws of the Universe, laws of Nature, Laws of Physics, just happened, and were always present magically somehow someway, starting from their so called INNATE PROPERTIES in the Beginning. Lets discuss if explosions and Big Bangs gave them these properties and whether the LAWS they obey were just magically there by an unseen force called Evolution (or via God). Or whether these laws ever changed in time as so called evolving conditions made the magic of selection, make the envirorment choose the right laws. Did laws ever evolve or are they a constant ?

I think your question has been answered several times, and since there is no longer any discussion of the topic perhaps your thread can be dropped into summation mode. Do you have any objections?


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Davidjay, posted 04-26-2017 1:39 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
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Stile
Member
Posts: 3044
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 96 of 114 (806527)
04-26-2017 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Davidjay
04-26-2017 1:39 AM


Re: Next.
Yes.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Davidjay, posted 04-26-2017 1:39 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 97 of 114 (806572)
04-26-2017 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Admin
04-26-2017 8:02 AM


Re: Of course I object...
Of course I object, from different angles and different reasoning and logic I am proving that laws did not evolve and laws will not evolve, and laws did not create life.

The thread is very active and ongoing, and IMPORTANT as an established principle, so readers especially can have a law on which to ground themselves.

Other threads have gone on for years and years without going into summary mode.... why should this one be stopped when it is very active and different people are responding.

David


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Admin, posted 04-26-2017 8:02 AM Admin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Admin, posted 04-27-2017 7:38 AM Davidjay has responded

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12536
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 98 of 114 (806653)
04-27-2017 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Davidjay
04-26-2017 11:16 AM


Re: Of course I object...
Davidjay writes:

Of course I object, from different angles and different reasoning and logic I am proving that laws did not evolve...

People already agree with you about this.

...and laws will not evolve, and laws did not create life.

This wasn't part of your original topic.

I'll leave this thread open a bit longer, but you're going to have to do a better job engaging with the other participants on the topic, otherwise I will drop this thread into summation mode.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Davidjay, posted 04-26-2017 11:16 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Davidjay, posted 04-29-2017 10:20 PM Admin has responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 99 of 114 (806955)
04-29-2017 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Admin
04-27-2017 7:38 AM


Re: Of course I object...
Your the evolution webmaster HERE, Percy, so sure decide what you want to do.

But it appears you have open threads from years and years back, that are still open, some active and some deader than evolutionary bones, and leading nowhere.

Your choice....

Yes, we have proven that laws did not evolve, and have not evolved, and hence logically we can assume no magic mutational laws will ever happen in the future. It would be irrational, unscientific and just a hoped for chance occurence of evolutionists who always have faith in mutations as a motivater for change.

But lets hear from them or you, in why you believe there is a chance for future conditions to make up new laws.

Thats part and parcel of time, past failed, present fails and future hope of evolution making new laws fail. Thats time, thats logic and that is reason.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Admin, posted 04-27-2017 7:38 AM Admin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Admin, posted 04-30-2017 7:32 AM Davidjay has responded

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12536
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 100 of 114 (806991)
04-30-2017 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Davidjay
04-29-2017 10:20 PM


Re: Of course I object...
Davidjay writes:

But lets hear from them or you, in why you believe there is a chance for future conditions to make up new laws.

The other participants in thread have not indicated awareness of any evidence that the laws of the universe change and evolve. The next time you make this assertion if had better follow a quote supporting it. Begin engaging with what other participants are actually saying or I will drop this thread into summation mode.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Davidjay, posted 04-29-2017 10:20 PM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Davidjay, posted 04-30-2017 10:07 AM Admin has acknowledged this reply

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 101 of 114 (807006)
04-30-2017 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Admin
04-30-2017 7:32 AM


Re: 'Laws did not evolve' is now a GIVEN
But Percy, they need to actually learn to say something and connect something, before I can logically and rationally and scientifically respond to them. As can be seen, they just use one line denials in almost every thread.

But no problem as a winner of this debate, I dont mind this thread going into SUMMARY MODE..... as it being shown and proven and agreed upon that laws never have evolved, and never can evolve any law or laws in future time.

I dont mind at all if this thread can be used as a GIVEN or a LAW, that laws dont evolve and didn't evolve.

You say it is agreed upon, so be it.

Amen (as amen means so be it)


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Admin, posted 04-30-2017 7:32 AM Admin has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Coyote, posted 04-30-2017 10:43 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 103 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-30-2017 12:44 PM Davidjay has responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6037
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 102 of 114 (807015)
04-30-2017 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Davidjay
04-30-2017 10:07 AM


Re: 'Laws did not evolve' is now a GIVEN
...before I can logically and rationally and scientifically respond to them.

Logically? Rationally? Scientifically?

That'd be a first! I'd love to see it!


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Davidjay, posted 04-30-2017 10:07 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1592
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(2)
Message 103 of 114 (807030)
04-30-2017 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Davidjay
04-30-2017 10:07 AM


Re: 'Laws did not evolve' is now a GIVEN
But Percy, they need to actually learn to say something and connect something, before I can logically and rationally and scientifically respond to them.

You are a funny guy! I see that you have proven that you don't know anything about any of the "Laws of the Universe".

You have been unable to list any of them. You have been unable to describe what a single law means. You have been unable to even tell us how many "Laws of the Universe" there are.

The thread is over 100 posts and you have proven that you are a fake. You have proven that you have absolutely no knowledge of the "Laws of the Universe".

You have gone down in flaming ruins as you flounder around even trying to make a coherent statement. You cannot spell, you have no idea of grammar, you cannot construct a coherent sentence. You have not been able to communicate anything but your own ignorance. You clearly cannot understand the simplest explanations from your opponents.

I will say one thing, you have left no doubts whatsoever, that you don't know what you are talking about and that you can't make a reasonable argument.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Davidjay, posted 04-30-2017 10:07 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Davidjay, posted 04-30-2017 2:29 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 104 of 114 (807052)
04-30-2017 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Tanypteryx
04-30-2017 12:44 PM


Re: 'Laws did not evolve' is now a GIVEN
Please stick to the topic, we are discussing how the laws of physics and creation came about. Have any of them evolved...and evolutionists say none of them have evolved...but that they have all been HERE since the Beginning.

Evolutionists beginning is the Big Magic Bang or Big Explosion billions or trillions of years ago, creationists Beginning is sanely laid out exactly in Genesis...

Laws have not evolved, since the BEGINNING is the premise, and no one has disagree yet. So disagree or shrink back into the background... or answer the question.

No laws have evolved is a GIVEN

Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-30-2017 12:44 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Coyote, posted 04-30-2017 2:59 PM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 106 by vimesey, posted 04-30-2017 3:01 PM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 107 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-30-2017 3:23 PM Davidjay has responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6037
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 105 of 114 (807058)
04-30-2017 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Davidjay
04-30-2017 2:29 PM


Re: 'Laws did not evolve' is now a GIVEN
Some definitions for you to ignore:

Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses. Theories do not grow up to be laws. Theories explain laws.

The biggest difference between a law and a theory is that a theory is much more complex and dynamic. A law describes a single action, whereas a theory explains an entire group of related phenomena. And, whereas a law is a postulate that forms the foundation of the scientific method, a theory is the end result of that same process. [Source]

Law: a generalization that describes recurring facts or events in nature; "the laws of thermodynamics."

"Laws" in science are typically descriptions of how the physical world behaves under certain circumstances. For example, the laws of motion describe how objects move when subjected to certain forces. These laws can be very useful in supporting hypotheses and theories, but like all elements of science they can be altered with new information and observations.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Davidjay, posted 04-30-2017 2:29 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
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