Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 108 (8806 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 12-17-2017 3:01 AM
289 online now:
Dr Adequate, dwise1, Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus), PaulK (4 members, 285 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: jaufre
Post Volume:
Total: 824,408 Year: 29,014/21,208 Month: 1,080/1,847 Week: 3/452 Day: 3/115 Hour: 0/1

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
1
23456
...
27NextFF
Author Topic:   Evolution is a racist doctrine
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 1 of 391 (805045)
04-15-2017 1:07 AM


In a world where nationalism and religion and color of skin are being used to separate people, I think it would be beneficial if we discussed how the theory of evolution is being used to promote such a division between people.

For evolution teaches that a species or kind divides from its original species into a new viable species. Or in human terms .....a better species or kind of human... a superior human race.

For although all wars are fought for economic reasons, the powers of individual countries try to sell their news wars, on the fact or propaganda that the other country is inferior or evil or is in danger of getting stronger than them etc. etc.

The underlying rationale is that the local countries bloodlines or DNA or genes mutated in that countries borders, is somehow superior to those humans in another country.

This they know is a forced doctrine in biology as taught in all the worldly universities, and fits in perfectly with their propaganda means of promoting their wars. Everyone wants to feel superior to others, its part of their self esteem, seemingly being BETTER than others. The leaders of these countries can feed this competitive waring motivation to their so called superior or chosen people... so they feel a need to go to war and sacrifice all for their small nationalistic patriotic country.

Evolutionists individually might not want this outcome but nevertheless evolution can and is being used as background basis for exterminating leser races or people. Evolutionary selection..or survival of the fittest scenario.

Yet love and knowing we are all the same and of the same stock and none of us are evolving into a better species through luck and chance but only by honest humility and LOVE in working together...can we survive.

IJN

David


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by jar, posted 04-15-2017 8:33 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 4 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-15-2017 9:35 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 5 by Genomicus, posted 04-15-2017 9:36 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 11 by 14174dm, posted 04-15-2017 12:03 PM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 12 by NoNukes, posted 04-15-2017 12:03 PM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 48 by bluegenes, posted 04-17-2017 12:40 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 289 by RAZD, posted 05-14-2017 4:49 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12536
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 2 of 391 (805047)
04-15-2017 8:08 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Evolution is a racist doctrine thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
    
jar
Member
Posts: 29806
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 3 of 391 (805048)
04-15-2017 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Davidjay
04-15-2017 1:07 AM


Let's go over the lies in your OP
Davidjay writes:

For evolution teaches that a species or kind divides from its original species into a new viable species. Or in human terms .....a better species or kind of human... a superior human race.

While the fact that a new species would be different than the original species, that is simply a truism and of no worth or value. However the second sentence is simply another of your lies.

The Theory of Evolution does not address better or worse period and only liars claim it does.

Davidjay writes:

Evolutionists individually might not want this outcome but nevertheless evolution can and is being used as background basis for exterminating leser races or people. Evolutionary selection..or survival of the fittest scenario.

While there has never yet been an example of the Theory of Evolution used to justify a war, Christianity certainly has been used for that purpose as well as the justification for genocide.

Try honesty for a change.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Davidjay, posted 04-15-2017 1:07 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15987
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 4 of 391 (805051)
04-15-2017 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Davidjay
04-15-2017 1:07 AM


You are a silly little liar, aren't you?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Davidjay, posted 04-15-2017 1:07 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
Genomicus
Member (Idle past 35 days)
Posts: 846
Joined: 02-15-2012


Message 5 of 391 (805052)
04-15-2017 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Davidjay
04-15-2017 1:07 AM


For evolution teaches that a species or kind divides from its original species into a new viable species. Or in human terms .....a better species or kind of human... a superior human race.

Social Darwinism, which is an aberration of Darwinian thought, ≠ evolutionary theory. Its emergence was fiercely criticized by biologists and paleontologists (e.g., Lester Ward). You are making the same mistake that early proponents of social "Darwinism" made, and that is the assumption that fitness-to-survive in a given environmental context is the same as overall superiority. Fitness ≠ superiority, so phrases like a "superior human race" are not consistent with the Neo-Darwinian paradigm.

The underlying rationale is that the local countries bloodlines or DNA or genes mutated in that countries borders, is somehow superior to those humans in another country.

Wat? Most people don't think about bloodlines or DNA or genes or mutations when engaging in warfare. I don't recall this kind of thinking cropping up during the Vietnam War, or any of the Gulf wars, etc. You're pretty much making this up. Welp.

This they know is a forced doctrine in biology as taught in all the worldly universities, and fits in perfectly with their propaganda means of promoting their wars. Everyone wants to feel superior to others, its part of their self esteem, seemingly being BETTER than others. The leaders of these countries can feed this competitive waring motivation to their so called superior or chosen people... so they feel a need to go to war and sacrifice all for their small nationalistic patriotic country.

Except that none of this is consistent with evolutionary theory. In fact, it was evolutionary biology and related disciplines (anthropology, genomics) which forever shattered the notion of biological races and biological determinism. So, if anything, evolutionary theory has produced rigorous anti-racist lines of evidence (thanks in large part to Franz Boas). I don't think you know what's taught in the "worldly universities" when it comes to biology and stuff.

Evolutionists individually might not want this outcome but nevertheless evolution can and is being used as background basis for exterminating leser races or people.

Nope.

Yet love and knowing we are all the same and of the same stock and none of us are evolving into a better species through luck and chance but only by honest humility and LOVE in working together...can we survive.

Nice attempt to make us all feel good and warm inside, but yeah you obv. don't know anything about evolutionary theory, anthropology, etc.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Davidjay, posted 04-15-2017 1:07 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 04-15-2017 10:47 AM Genomicus has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16339
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 6 of 391 (805066)
04-15-2017 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Genomicus
04-15-2017 9:36 AM


Genomicus writes:

Wat? Most people don't think about bloodlines or DNA or genes or mutations when engaging in warfare. I don't recall this kind of thinking cropping up during the Vietnam War, or any of the Gulf wars, etc. You're pretty much making this up. Welp.

I think Davidjay may have Germany during WWII in mind. Hitler believed the German race superior and felt that it needed "living space" (lebensraum), hence his expansionist policies. He also believed racial purity essential, and this combined with his blame of the Jews for many of the ills of German society let to the final solution once deportation on the necessary scale proved impossible.

Davidjay is wrong that evolution teaches that new species are superior to old, but that's understood by few and so has never prevented evolution's misuse to justify policies of racial hate.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Genomicus, posted 04-15-2017 9:36 AM Genomicus has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-15-2017 11:04 AM Percy has responded
 Message 8 by Davidjay, posted 04-15-2017 11:15 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 18 by Minnemooseus, posted 04-15-2017 5:19 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15987
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 7 of 391 (805067)
04-15-2017 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Percy
04-15-2017 10:47 AM


I think Davidjay may have Germany during WWII in mind. Hitler believed the German race superior and felt that it needed "living space" (lebensraum), hence his expansionist policies. He also believed racial purity essential, and this combined with his blame of the Jews for many of the ills of German society let to the final solution once deportation on the necessary scale proved impossible.

Also, he was a creationist.

Davidjay is wrong that evolution teaches that new species are superior to old ...

I dunno, you could argue for that in some circumstances. But there's certainly nothing in evolution that teaches that varieties existing at the same time must necessarily be rankable in some way.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 04-15-2017 10:47 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Percy, posted 04-15-2017 12:08 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 8 of 391 (805068)
04-15-2017 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Percy
04-15-2017 10:47 AM


Agreed, evolution is used for racial hatred
Evolutionists dont have to be racists but the doctrine of evolution is definitely used by nations around the world to either consciously or subconsciously back up their war mongering for greed, or shall we say survival or selection for viability.

Agreed, as honest Percy admits it. Evolutionists or hit and missers, dont usually run for political office because although talkers and into semantics, as good politicians are mere talkers who tickle the ears of the majority. Evolutionists basically stay out of the field of politics, or power mongering, and stay tucked away in a field of so called science where only their fellow religionists or evolutionists understand the supposed true meaning of their religion, I mean supposed science.
At least this is what they say.

But again, Yes, honest Percy at least knows some history.... as certain races, whether Jewish or those against the superiority of one race over all the others, like Hitlers racism, adopt evolution as their guiding light, so they can inbred... (which they did, with youth camps of free sex, as long as they reproduced) so as to produce a pure line, and superior branch, or race. Hitler also helped the purity lineage via the extinction of all other species or kinds of humans, via annihilation of not only the lower economic Jews, but Gypsies, and homosexuals, etc etc...

Similiarly, and to do deplorable damnable worldly nationalistic patriotic leaders of their supposed superior race, adopt a religion that supposedly verifies their superiority whether Churchianity, or extreme Islamic doctrine, etc etc etc etc etc.

If that doesnt work, like in the Western world today, they use propaganda to suggest that other religions like Islam are basically evil and all in that religion are less human than they.

Hence they get one race hating the other, or one lifestyle hating the other, or one color hating the other..... as their backup doctrine, consciously or subconsciously is evolution and a supposed furtherance of survival of their kind, using war.... or the survival of their fittest.

The opposite true and lasting doctrine is love that we are ALL EQUAL, and that no minor variety of humans is any better or wrose or more advanced than their brethren, whether now OR in the past. We are all the same, EQUALITY. Our human race has not evolved now or ever has.

The deplorable, easily misused and applied horrendously doctrine of evolution teaches that there has been a progression or advancement from apes to now..... this unscientific, racism does try to show that the human race is supposed to be advancing, rather than being static and equal in the past, in the present and in the future.

Evolutionary doctrine is racist, true Christianity and religions based on love of all others is not racist.

Love wins, equality wins... racism loses and ammounts to a basis for war and killing. Evolution is a losing doctrine of inequality.

Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 04-15-2017 10:47 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-15-2017 11:37 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 10 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-15-2017 11:43 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 16 by Genomicus, posted 04-15-2017 4:30 PM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 19 by frako, posted 04-15-2017 5:37 PM Davidjay has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15987
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


(4)
Message 9 of 391 (805071)
04-15-2017 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Davidjay
04-15-2017 11:15 AM


"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross." --- Adolf Hitler

I await with interest your halfwitted whining about how Christianity is a racist doctrine.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Davidjay, posted 04-15-2017 11:15 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15987
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 10 of 391 (805074)
04-15-2017 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Davidjay
04-15-2017 11:15 AM


Re: Agreed, evolution is used for racial hatred
Do you actually expect that your retarded lies will deceive anyone, or do you just tell them in the hope of annoying normal people?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Davidjay, posted 04-15-2017 11:15 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
14174dm
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: 10-12-2015


(1)
Message 11 of 391 (805083)
04-15-2017 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Davidjay
04-15-2017 1:07 AM


Name these wars
What particular wars were waged based on evolutionary basis after dissemination of Theory of Evolution?

The underlying rationale is that the local countries bloodlines or DNA or genes mutated in that countries borders, is somehow superior to those humans in another country.

The problem with that idea is that people realize that the genes are not that different across most borders. Most wars use economic, cultural, or religious rationales.

How do you separate a war/fight/discrimination based on the desire to improve the human race (social darwinism) instead of racial hatred which is based on the fear/hate/etc of the different and the competing?

I am thinking of the civil wars such as Rawanda where economically and politically suppressed groups killed the visibly different upper classes.

And which comes first, the decision to go to war or the desire to eliminate the other group/race/etc? I think the frequent case is that the decision for war is made and the justification of racial purity comes later.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Davidjay, posted 04-15-2017 1:07 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10126
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 12 of 391 (805084)
04-15-2017 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Davidjay
04-15-2017 1:07 AM


For although all wars are fought for economic reasons, the powers of individual countries try to sell their news wars, on the fact or propaganda that the other country is inferior or evil or is in danger of getting stronger than them etc. etc.

The underlying rationale is that the local countries bloodlines or DNA or genes mutated in that countries borders, is somehow superior to those humans in another country.

Folks have also used the excuse that some races are the descendant's of Biblically accursed races to fight wars and to enslave those folks, and that stuff occurred before the theory of evolution even existed. It is true that the smallest divisions between skin color, religion, or even culture can become substantial enough to go to war about. With few exceptions, the theory of evolution has played little to no role in helping identify those differences.

Guess what else. It turns out that physics can be used to make weapons so power as to endanger the entire human race. Science is what it is. But it turns out that American exceptionalism requires no basis in biology to drive imperialism and subjugation of people all over the world including on this continent even prior to Darwin being born. If I were to count up the folks who currently spew venom regarding Muslims and Hispanics, I doubt that the total would be dominated by folks who understand or give a crap about the theory of evolution. Most of you xenophobes don't even believe in the theory of evolution.

Bottom line. Racism and xenophobia well predate the theory of evolution. In the Bible, being one of God's chosen people was used to justify the slaughter of entire tribes. Evolution is no more a racist doctrine than is physics, and perhaps less than theology.

The premise of this entire thread is a well worn PRATT that reflects primarily on the intellectual dishonesty of the initial poster.

but nevertheless evolution can and is being used as background basis for exterminating leser races or people

I call BS on your non-evidenced statement.

Which races are currently being targeted due to the theory of evolution? It is not enough that you show that people hate those races because hate predates Darwin by many millennia. Show me some actual evidence of Darwin based superiority currently in action.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Davidjay, posted 04-15-2017 1:07 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 16339
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 13 of 391 (805086)
04-15-2017 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Dr Adequate
04-15-2017 11:04 AM


Dr Adequate writes:

Also, he was a creationist.

This is perhaps a better point. While Hitler wasn't a creationist in the sense that we would use the term today, he rejected evolution but wasn't religious and didn't have firm views on the origin of races

Davidjay is wrong that evolution teaches that new species are superior to old ...

I dunno, you could argue for that in some circumstances.

I meant this in the context of adaptation. What I would say to Davidjay is that evolution teaches that species are either better or worse adapted to their changing environment, rather than superior or inferior. A species that replaces an old species may be better adapted to the current environment, but not to the environment as it existed when the old species was extant. Which is superior, which inferior? Wrong question.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Typo.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-15-2017 11:04 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-15-2017 12:12 PM Percy has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15987
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 14 of 391 (805088)
04-15-2017 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Percy
04-15-2017 12:08 PM


While Hitler wasn't a creationist in the sense that we would use the term today, he rejected evolution but wasn't religious ...

Well he does seem to have rejected evolution in favor of God doing magic. He may not have been a full-on believer in talking snakes but I think that qualifies him as a creationist.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Percy, posted 04-15-2017 12:08 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Percy, posted 04-15-2017 5:06 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6397
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


(1)
Message 15 of 391 (805092)
04-15-2017 12:35 PM


ToE is a description, not a prescription
The theory of evolution is simply a description about how the world works.

In any species, individuals differ slightly in their characteristics.

Some individuals, because of these characteristics, are more likely to survive and produce surviving offspring than others.

Many of these characteristics are inheritable, and so each succeeding generation will be composed of more individuals with these particular characteristics and few of the others.

Over time, these small changes over the generations add up to the great differences that we see between modern species.

There is nothing here about what individuals "should" do, just an explanation why the world looks the way it does. The theory of evolution is no more a justification for racism than the theory of gravity is a justification that everyone should crawl on their bellies.

-

Racists "justify" racism just by stating that "those other people" act differently and want to destroy what "we" believe. The belief that some races are superior is based on the belief some cultural traditions and beliefs are superior to others, and that these traditions are somehow tied to race rather than upbringing.

-

In so far as racists and eugenicists have tried to justify their actions with genetics or some cartoon version of the theory of evolution, they are actually talking about the techniques used in animal breeding that have been used for thousands of years to produce "better" breeds of cattle and dogs and such.

If it's true that we shouldn't be teaching anything that might justify racists' beliefs, then what shouldn't be taught isn't the theory of evolution but the techniques of producing better yields of agricultural products through selective breeding and culling.


  
1
23456
...
27NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017