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Author Topic:   Evolution is a racist doctrine
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 4600
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


(1)
Message 376 of 391 (810777)
06-01-2017 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Percy
04-15-2017 5:06 PM


Hitler was a demagogue who crafted his writings (primarily Mein Kampf) and speeches by selecting among arguments for those that seemed to work. What he said before an audience mostly reflected choices of what he thought effective rather than what he actually believed. The passage you quoted in Message 9 is from a April 12, 1922, speech and has often been used to argue that Hitler was Christian, but this was merely how he courted Christian support. Most historians conclude that Hitler was areligious.

--Percy

I can appreciate your intellectual objectivity in this matter.

In the same way I believe the argument that, "evolution is racist/conducive to racism", to be an example of an Appeal To Consequences Fallacy, largely mistakenly argued by creationists to try and muddy evolution theory.

It seems in it's real form my fellow creos are really arguing this; "because evolution might not be contrary to racism therefore evolution is false."

False because they seek to say that evolution is incorrect because it is somehow racist or conducive to it, which is negative thing P if it is accepted.

I myself don't value this argument much because let us say for example that evolution argued that more modern species are, "superior" (which it doesn't), nevertheless even if that was so, this wouldn't affect the veracity of the evolution claim anyway for truth-value isn't decided by what things are perceived to be immoral or negative.

That is to say, even if evolution was conducive to racism in some way, if evolution was factual then this would be a resultant negative consequence in the same way atoms being split are a negative consequence of the formula, E=MC2.

So then, if we can create bombs by splitting the atom, does it follow E=MC2 is "violent activity which is false."

So I think the racism-argument from creationists can be a bit disingenuous. Almost as disingenious as Dr A's lame attempt to somehow associate Hitler with creationism. I think you're right, Hitler did seem like a utilitarian in his practical methodologies. His beliefs and desires were all about himself, IMHO, (means to an end) and attempts to say he was evolutionist or creationist seem like an attempt to besmirch either.

It's the old Ad Hitlerum, "how can cake be tasty if Hitler said it was?"

One can see the obvious advantage in getting Hitler to have believed X, because people are naturally repulsed by him, but it's an intellectually dishonest pursuit.

I see the same but the opposite with Einstein, creationists like to say He was an avid theist, and atheists like to say his beliefs were closer to atheism. Whichever was closer to the truth isn't my point, my point is it's rather obvious that having Einstein on the team by association is better than having Hitler on your team, if you see what I mean. This plays off of those negative/positive associations, in human psychology.

It's "correct by association with Einstein", and, "incorrect by association with Hitler".

This game is played out in debate, the use of rhetorical spin and epithets seems to be rife among the average thinkers. A recent example is the "phobias", people have a knee-jerk reaction to them that immediately makes them associate that person as immoral and evil which is why people like to LABEL people and immediately paint them with the terms, "homophobia" and, "Islamaphobia".

Psychologically people can't see they are doing it until you reverse it, and say; "I am murdererphobic and rape-aphobic," then the mis-use of the epithet presumably strikes home for the dull witted. (one would hope, optimistically)

Some other buz words are, "hate", and "fear" but one should be cautious to use those terms QUICKLY, because a lot of the time they require telepathy. For example if you call Islamic state, "Islamic state" it seems you are now an Islamaphobic but if you call it, "so called Islamic state" you aren't, but do you know of any ISIS members that are Christian, agnostic, Jewish, atheist, or Buddhist?

So then it is okay logically to say that ISIS/islam extremism is Islam but it is not okay to say that if someone is Islamic they are ISIS/Islamic extremism.

For me, I have no "phobia", what I have is deductive reason. The majority of Muslims are clearly relatively harmless.

CONCLUSION; These types of arguments basically try to abuse human psychology, because of our natural repulsion for certain words, actions and people.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Percy, posted 04-15-2017 5:06 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19230
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 377 of 391 (810794)
06-01-2017 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by Davidjay
06-01-2017 12:12 PM


movine goalposts, not answering the criticism - time for Summary Mode?
First state whether inbreeding is proof of evolution or not.

This is your thread,

Your topic is "Evolution is a racist doctrine" a silly assertion that has been falsified by several people, yet you continue to assert this falsehood. Knowingly asserting a falsehood is lying.

You have totally failed to defend your thesis from this criticism, and instead resort to the old creationist dodge of moving the goalposts ...

First state whether inbreeding is proof of evolution or not.

This is moving the goalposts ...

First state whether inbreeding is proof of evolution or not.

This is a tacit admission that you have lost this debate.

Perhaps it is time to put this thread in summary mode seeing as you have done nothing to defend it, and only use it to talk about other topics.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by Davidjay, posted 06-01-2017 12:12 PM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by Davidjay, posted 06-03-2017 6:28 AM RAZD has responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 378 of 391 (810923)
06-03-2017 6:28 AM
Reply to: Message 377 by RAZD
06-01-2017 4:17 PM


Re: Thanks for more proofs for Creationism .. RAZZ
Thanks Razz, your inability in answering the questions on your dog inbreeding, have further proven that evolution is a racist doctrine.

Inbreeding is not proof of evolution, as you have tried to suggest.

By getting you afraid to answer this question or any evolutionist to answer this question, you ALL show that you are afraid to answer because you know MY logic is true. You know that if you say evolution branches, it shows present day racism of different branches in the human population.

If you say inbreeding creates a new species as with that demented inbreeding dog chart of Razz, then again it means inbreeding people can create a new KIND, and be present today because of inbreeding.

Creationism wins aagin, and racism loses again

Inbreeding does not create new kinds of people, they are still people, still humans. Variation does not mean new dogs or new humans evolve via inbreeding. Thats ludicrous and scientifically insane.

No this thread is doing well and you have helped prove my point, so keep up the good work Razz, with your lack of answers....

But do return to try and get those inbreeding dogs breeding new generations, in hopes of producing something that is not a dog.


Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science.

Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,


This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by RAZD, posted 06-01-2017 4:17 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19230
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 379 of 391 (810927)
06-03-2017 7:13 AM
Reply to: Message 378 by Davidjay
06-03-2017 6:28 AM


Re: Thanks for more proofs for Creationist failure .. Davidjay
Thanks Davidjay, your inability in answering the questions on your 'evolution is racist' assertion, has further proven that you have no evidence to back that assertion. The fact that you are trying to change the subject means that you have no evidence to back that assertion.

Branching is not racism, as you have tried to suggest but never supported. Nor have you answered the content of the posts where this assertion is demonstrate to be false.

Your cognitive dissonance makes you afraid to answer those questions, or for any creationists to answer this question, you ALL show that you are afraid to answer evidence based questions because you know that real objective empirical evidence is true. You know that if you say evolution creates variations, it doesn't really cause present day racism of different variations in the human population. Religions and biased beliefs do that.

If you say branching creates racism with that demented ignorance of evolution that you have displayed, then it still doesn't mean your strange obsession with inbreeding has any meaning to the argument.

Reality wins again, and Davidjay loses again

Variation does not create new kinds of people, they are still people, still humans. Variation does not necessarily mean new dog species or new human species have evolved via selection. Saying evolution is racist is ignorant, ludicrous and scientifically insane, as has been demonstrated ad nauseum.

No, this thread is going nowhere fast, and you have helped prove everyone else's point that you are just a bag of wind blustering from thread to thread, post to post, with irrelevant and false claims, distractions and bluff while totally failing to substantiate a single argument, or provide a single item to support your false thesis, so keep up the good work Davidjay, with your losing lack of answers....

But do return to try and get those branching humans to breed racism, in hopes of producing something that is in the direction of a valid argument, instead of bluster, bluff and berating behavior befitting a troll with little apparent understanding of reality.

The earth is round, and it has been orbiting the sun for over 4 billion years with no global flood. Man landed on the moon using science, not fantasy, and (in case you missed it) ... evolution is real and occurring all around you. No animals exhibit racist behavior and yet they have evolved for over 3 billion years. It appears that only humans display this trait, just as they are the only ones that display religious beliefs and racist beliefs.

There does seem to be a correlation between religious beliefs and bigotry. And racism.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Davidjay, posted 06-03-2017 6:28 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12535
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 380 of 391 (810937)
06-03-2017 8:48 AM


Moderator Request
Please, everyone, stop making personal comments about the people you're debating with. Keep the focus on the discussion topic. This is the only warning I'll give before I begin issuing suspensions.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 381 of 391 (810941)
06-03-2017 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 380 by Admin
06-03-2017 8:48 AM


Re: Back to the topic
Lets get back to the topic

Evolution is a racist doctrine......


Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science.

Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,


This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by Admin, posted 06-03-2017 8:48 AM Admin has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by RAZD, posted 06-03-2017 10:53 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 388 by Taq, posted 06-07-2017 12:41 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19230
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 382 of 391 (810959)
06-03-2017 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 381 by Davidjay
06-03-2017 9:38 AM


Re: Back to the topic
Lets get back to the topic

Evolution is a racist doctrine......

Indeed, do let's get back to the actual topic: you can start by demonstrating how all the examples and comments showing evolution is not racist are wrong, starting with Message 3 and working your way down the thread. As you should have been doing since the start of the thread.

Are mice racist?
Are moths?
What about trees?
Are any organisms, past and present, other than humans racist?

If over 99.99% of life, past and present, on earth has evolved and yet is not racist then it isn't evolution that is racist.

Intentionally repeating a falsified claim without refuting the falsification is just lazy self-indulgent lying.

Perhaps you are suggesting that racists have used evolution as an excuse for their racism ... which doesn't make evolution racist as it is the people misusing it that are racist. Like the way you have frequently misused or misquoted people to make an inherently invalid (strawman fallacy) point.

Waiting for you to address the falsifications of your claim I am, but holding my breath I'm not.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .

Edited by RAZD, : ..


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by Davidjay, posted 06-03-2017 9:38 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 383 by Coyote, posted 06-03-2017 11:00 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6030
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 383 of 391 (810960)
06-03-2017 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 382 by RAZD
06-03-2017 10:53 AM


Re: Back to the topic
Just to throw a little data on the subject--

American Anthropological Association statement on race:

http://www.americananthro.org/ConnectWithAAA/Content.aspx

American Association of Physical Anthropologists biological aspects of race:

http://www.physanth.org/...tatements/biological-aspects-race

And once again DJ's fevered rantings are shown to be wrong.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by RAZD, posted 06-03-2017 10:53 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29623
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 384 of 391 (810962)
06-03-2017 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 383 by Coyote
06-03-2017 11:00 AM


Re: Back to the topic
Twenty pages and nearly 400 posts in and as expected Davidjay has never presented any evidence that "Evolution is a racist doctrine". His posts here are as inane, silly, full of shit and filled with nonsense as the cut & pastes from his website.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by Coyote, posted 06-03-2017 11:00 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10080
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 385 of 391 (810964)
06-03-2017 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 378 by Davidjay
06-03-2017 6:28 AM


Re: Thanks for more proofs for Creationism .. RAZZ
DavidJay writes:

By getting you afraid to answer this question or any evolutionist to answer this question, you ALL show that you are afraid to answer because you know MY logic is true. You know that if you say evolution branches, it shows present day racism of different branches in the human population.

A prime example of what I am talking about. Humble yourself and get off of the playground. I'm not trying to kick you out of here, but my patience is wearing thin. You better pray about what God wants you to do here. Its His logic---not yours.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
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KyleConno
Junior Member (Idle past 66 days)
Posts: 7
Joined: 04-28-2017


(1)
Message 386 of 391 (811330)
06-07-2017 8:32 AM


Evolution is a change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations.

There is evidence on how each cell has evolved from microbes.
https://www.bartleby.com/topics/Evolution-Essay
Evolution is the process of change in all forms of life over generations, and evolutionary biology is the study of how evolution occurs.


    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7263
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 387 of 391 (811367)
06-07-2017 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by Davidjay
06-03-2017 6:28 AM


Re: Thanks for more proofs for Creationism .. RAZZ
Davidjay writes:

Thanks Razz, your inability in answering the questions on your dog inbreeding, have further proven that evolution is a racist doctrine.

All you are doing is changing the subject so you don't have to support your assertion that evolution is racist.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Davidjay, posted 06-03-2017 6:28 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7263
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 388 of 391 (811368)
06-07-2017 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 381 by Davidjay
06-03-2017 9:38 AM


Re: Back to the topic
Davidjay writes:

Lets get back to the topic
Evolution is a racist doctrine......

Evolution is a racist doctrine because . . . .

You need to fill in the rest of that sentence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by Davidjay, posted 06-03-2017 9:38 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19230
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 389 of 391 (811403)
06-07-2017 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by Taq
06-07-2017 12:41 PM


Re: Back to the topic
Evolution is a racist doctrine because . . . .

You need to fill in the rest of that sentence.

As demonstrated by non-human species that are racist, such as:

(fill in the blank)

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Taq, posted 06-07-2017 12:41 PM Taq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29623
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 390 of 391 (811443)
06-08-2017 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 389 by RAZD
06-07-2017 4:35 PM


Re: Back to the topic

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by RAZD, posted 06-07-2017 4:35 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
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