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Author Topic:   Evolution is a racist doctrine
LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 716
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 46 of 195 (805231)
04-16-2017 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
04-16-2017 8:43 PM


Re: Explain the Bob Jones situation for starters.
I put Cathartic into google with search results and it turns out that he accidentally said 15 per1000 and the hits are all about that. I know someone who had a business in Omaha beside the Planned Parenthood office and he was constantly offered money to buy his land beside the Planned Parenthood office ( needed to legally be there to protest ) The business man was Pro Life but he didn't want to be part of a big legal issue.

Anyway put in search terms "abortion per 100,000 pregnancies safer " and leave out Leroy Carhart

One good study shows abortions to be 14 times less fatal than pregnancy carried out all the way.

Www. Ncbi.nlm.ni

Nevermind spell check won't allow.

Google Raymond E G Grimes and it is snow showing 8.8 per 100,000 pregnancy fatalities verses 0.6 for abortion.

GOOGLE
Raymond Grimes 8.8 0.6

It shows that even today you have 8.2 more deaths per 100,000 pregnancies if abortion is not performed.

Pregnancies are dangerous.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


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JonF
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Posts: 3513
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 47 of 195 (805233)
04-16-2017 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by jar
04-16-2017 9:56 PM


Re: Explain the Bob Jones situation for starters.
It's all about punishment. People who use birth control, people who have sex outside opposite-sex monogamous marriage, and so on should be punished in Old Testament fashion. They aren't being punished. Therefore the laws and even the Constitution itself must be changed to implement punishment.
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bluegenes
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Posts: 2999
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007
Member Rating: 2.4


(3)
Message 48 of 195 (805235)
04-17-2017 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Davidjay
04-15-2017 1:07 AM


The beginning of "Bloodlines".
Davidjay writes:

In a world where nationalism and religion and color of skin are being used to separate people, I think it would be beneficial if we discussed how the theory of evolution is being used to promote such a division between people.
For evolution teaches that a species or kind divides from its original species into a new viable species. Or in human terms .....a better species or kind of human... a superior human race.

For although all wars are fought for economic reasons, the powers of individual countries try to sell their news wars, on the fact or propaganda that the other country is inferior or evil or is in danger of getting stronger than them etc. etc.

The underlying rationale is that the local countries bloodlines or DNA or genes mutated in that countries borders, is somehow superior to those humans in another country.

This they know is a forced doctrine in biology as taught in all the worldly universities, and fits in perfectly with their propaganda means of promoting their wars. Everyone wants to feel superior to others, its part of their self esteem, seemingly being BETTER than others. The leaders of these countries can feed this competitive waring motivation to their so called superior or chosen people... so they feel a need to go to war and sacrifice all for their small nationalistic patriotic country.

Absolutely, David, you've hit the nail on the head. Before "The Origin of Species" was published in 1859, the world was peaceful and egalitarian, functioning on ideas like one person one vote democracy, socialism, human rights and the equality of all people under the law.

Then, after this evil publication, the Europeans rapidly established a feudal system and the concept of aristocratic and royal bloodlines, so those who believed themselves of superior lines would marry amongst themselves, and treat others as their inferiors, and exercise their biological rights of Kingship and Lordship; and nations started to regard themselves as unequal, and the first wars began.

The disease spread. For example, when the evil tract was translated into Hindi, the caste system was invented in India; a strict, unequal hierarchy based on the Darwinian concept of fitness and bloodlines. Then wars began on the subcontinent for the first time.

All over the world hereditary Chiefdoms, Kingdoms and Empires sprang up for the first time, based on bloodlines, superiority and inferiority, concepts that had never existed before. Bloody struggles followed everywhere, as we see now in the Middle-East, where the Sunni Darwinians and Shia Darwinians slaughter each other in a struggle for dominance.

Darwinian evil is truly abroad, and what can we do? Fortunately, there are people with great insight in this world, like you, dear David, so there is hope. For a start, I recommend that, like the Nazis, we should ban the evil book "Origin of Species". We must try to get back to the pre-Darwinian ideal of the eighteenth century and before. Bringing back the highly egalitarian African slave trade might be a next step toward ridding ourselves of this ugly modern racism and then we could go forward from there.


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Genomicus
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Posts: 813
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 49 of 195 (805244)
04-17-2017 4:17 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Faith
04-16-2017 7:08 PM


Re: Explain the Bob Jones situation for starters.
OK I'll agree that the racist motivation is exaggerated for Sanger even if there is a tie between the ToE and eugenics and racism in general.

The "tie" between Darwinian theory and racism was pseudoscientific nonsense (e.g., see Stephen J. Gould's critique of Morton's skull analyses), relying on shoddy methods and pure ideology. So racism is not a necessary outcome of Darwinian theory; rather, Darwinian theory was exploited by the white power structure to "justify" racism. Racists always find a way to twist facts to suit their ideology, and Darwinian theory was no different. Nor was Christianity immune to the distortions of the racist power system.

Sanger believed in the importance of eugenics for eliminating the "unfit" from the gene pool, and it was part of her program that became Planned Parenthood.

But Sanger was ostensibly not a mainstream eugenicist; indeed, her advocacy of birth control was an argument against proponents of eugenics. While eugenicists were carrying out forced sterilizations -- using state power to determine who was "fit" and "unfit" -- Sanger argued that the decision of childbirth was a decision to be made by the woman, not the state.

It's not clear how much racism might have been involved in her statement that the black community needs eugenics [my comment: you mean more birth control, not "more eugenics"] more than others.

I see no evidence that anti-black racism was involved in Sanger's position. A lack of birth control for the black community was a method of repression and subjugation by the white state; while the white elite could send their pregnant daughters on a "vacation to Europe" to take care of the matter, the poorer black community had no such options and thus continued to be crushed by the poverty that results from larger families and a lack of access to capital. As Sanger noted:

"I believe that the Negro question is coming definitely to the fore in America, not only because of the war, but in anticipation of the place the Negro will occupy after the peace. I think it is magnificent that we are in on the ground floor, helping Negroes to control their birthrate, to reduce their high infant and maternal death rate, to maintain better standards of health and living for those already born, and to create better opportunities to help themselves, and to rise to their own heights through education and the principles of democracy."

Here I concur with Valenza's 1985 conclusion that "It would be more valid to accuse Margaret Sanger of racism if, after considering the urgent need among black people for the health benefits of birth control, she had chosen to do nothing" (in: Family Planning Perspectives, 1985, "Was Margaret Sanger a Racist?").


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 Message 39 by Faith, posted 04-16-2017 7:08 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Genomicus
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Posts: 813
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 50 of 195 (805245)
04-17-2017 4:19 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
04-16-2017 8:43 PM


Re: Explain the Bob Jones situation for starters.
Christians oppose killing the unborn, also object to a lot of "sex education" which amounts to propaganda for sexual sin that violates the Bible and corrupts the culture...

And the patriarchy strikes again.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 04-16-2017 8:43 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 04-17-2017 4:30 AM Genomicus has responded

  
Faith
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Posts: 24487
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 51 of 195 (805246)
04-17-2017 4:24 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Genomicus
04-17-2017 4:17 AM


Re: Explain the Bob Jones situation for starters.
dup

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Faith
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Posts: 24487
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 52 of 195 (805247)
04-17-2017 4:25 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Genomicus
04-17-2017 4:17 AM


Re: Explain the Bob Jones situation for starters.
rather, Darwinian theory was exploited by the white power structure to "justify" racism.

Isn't that exactly what I said in Message 33 (without the Leftist racist rhetoric of course.)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Genomicus, posted 04-17-2017 4:17 AM Genomicus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Genomicus, posted 04-17-2017 4:39 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 24487
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 53 of 195 (805249)
04-17-2017 4:30 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Genomicus
04-17-2017 4:19 AM


Re: Explain the Bob Jones situation for starters.
Christians oppose killing the unborn, also object to a lot of "sex education" which amounts to propaganda for sexual sin that violates the Bible and corrupts the culture...

And the patriarchy strikes again.

Well, I was explaining why Christians object to Planned Parenthood and the Bible is patriarchal, which of course Marxist feminists object to, but then I'm not a Marxist feminist. I think patriarchy is a good system myself, somebody has to be in charge, and men are really overall rather a nice bunch. Of course maybe I just lucked out with the men in my family.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Genomicus, posted 04-17-2017 4:19 AM Genomicus has responded

Replies to this message:
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Genomicus
Member
Posts: 813
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 54 of 195 (805251)
04-17-2017 4:39 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Faith
04-17-2017 4:25 AM


Re: Explain the Bob Jones situation for starters.
Isn't that exactly what I said in Message 33 (without the Leftist racist rhetoric of course.)

I thought I'd do you favor and re-articulate your sentiments without the whitewashing you consistently engage in.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 04-17-2017 4:25 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 04-17-2017 4:41 AM Genomicus has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 24487
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 55 of 195 (805252)
04-17-2017 4:41 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Genomicus
04-17-2017 4:39 AM


Re: Explain the Bob Jones situation for starters.
Um, yes, "whitewashing." That WOULD be how a Marxist feminist would see ordinary human fallibility. We MUST at all costs have a Villain, an Evil Oppressor, we can't just have ordinary confused human beings with a wide range of motivations, intelligence, understanding.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Genomicus
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Posts: 813
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 56 of 195 (805253)
04-17-2017 4:43 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Faith
04-17-2017 4:30 AM


Re: Explain the Bob Jones situation for starters.
Well, I was explaining why Christians object to Planned Parenthood and the Bible is patriarchal...

Yes, the Bible is indeed patriarchal, and that's why we see the Bible (well, esp. OT) more sharply condemn certain sexual acts between consenting adults than it condemns rape. I mean, apparently adultery -- an act between consenting adults -- is more deplorable to that psychopath in the sky than rape is, because adultery made it into the Ten Commandments.

I think patriarchy is a good system myself, somebody has to be in charge...

As to why genital anatomy should determine who is in charge (in terms of systematic and cultural power structure), the proponents of patriarchy have no ready answer.

Nor does the Bible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 04-17-2017 4:30 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Faith, posted 04-17-2017 4:52 AM Genomicus has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 24487
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 57 of 195 (805254)
04-17-2017 4:52 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Genomicus
04-17-2017 4:43 AM


Re: Explain the Bob Jones situation for starters.
Actually ALL sexual misbehavior is included in the commandment against adultery, including fornication, including rape, including bestiality, including homosexuality, all of it. You can figure this out by reading all the many examples given in the books of the Law that basically are commentaries on the Ten Commandments.

Violations of the command against adultery are very destructive of society, which really ought to be apparent to anyone who has paid attention to the cultural deterioration of the West over the last few decades. God's laws, believe it or not, are for our good.

But what does that have to do with patriarchy?

While fallen human nature does breed tyrannies, the true function of patriarchy is responsibility and caretaking, not domination.

Why do you need to have a Villain in your worldview?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Genomicus, posted 04-17-2017 4:43 AM Genomicus has responded

Replies to this message:
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Genomicus
Member
Posts: 813
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 58 of 195 (805257)
04-17-2017 5:03 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Faith
04-17-2017 4:52 AM


Re: Explain the Bob Jones situation for starters.
Actually ALL sexual misbehavior is included in the commandment against adultery...

And yet the Ten Commandments make no direct mention of rape, but do distinctly mention adultery. One wonders why an act between consenting adults was deemed more worthy of outright condemnation than rape.

Violations of the command against adultery are very destructive of society, which really ought to be apparent to anyone who has paid attention to the cultural deterioration of the West over the last few decades.

The current "cultural deterioration of the West" is a fantasy. There is no ongoing cultural deterioration of the West under the ethical and moral standards of my generation.

But what does that have to do with patriarchy?

Rape is far more prevalent in patriarchal societies than in matriarchal or gylanic ones.

While fallen human nature does breed tyrannies, the true function of patriarchy is responsibility and caretaking, not domination.

Why should genital anatomy determine who is in charge?

Added Comment: If the "true function" of patriarchy is not domination, then one wonders why rape is more prevalent in patriarchal societies than in matriarchal ones.

Edited by Genomicus, : No reason given.


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 Message 57 by Faith, posted 04-17-2017 4:52 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 24487
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 59 of 195 (805259)
04-17-2017 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Genomicus
04-17-2017 5:03 AM


Re: Explain the Bob Jones situation for starters.
Actually ALL sexual misbehavior is included in the commandment against adultery...

And yet the Ten Commandments make no direct mention of rape, but do distinctly mention adultery. One wonders why an act between consenting adults was deemed more worthy of outright condemnation than rape.

As I said rape is included under the command against adultery and is spelled out in other places. But as for adultery it is a violation of someone's marriage, an offense against that person, not exactly a victimless crime, and as for unmarried sex pregnancy makes it a threat to the stability of society.

And rape IS discussed. Dinah the sister of the twelve patriarchs of Israel was raped and her brothers went and murdered the whole family of the offender. Tribal justice in those days was pretty harsh (the Bible is NOT condoning it, just reporting it), but I don't know what that might say about the incidence of rape. Either it would imply there was lots of it because the society was rough, or not much because of the threat of that sort of tribal retribution. And the poor sap who raped Dinah was in love with her yet and wanted to marry her.

And then it's dealt with in Deuteronomy 22 as well, the rape of a young woman betrothed to another, verses 25-26, where the man is sentenced to be put to death for it. In the case of the rape of an unmarried woman he must pay her father a fine of 50 shekels and must marry her and never be allowed to divorce her -- because he humiliated her and she'd be vulnerable to sexual predation and other humiliations and dangers after the rape if he didn't.

Although the context is a very primitive society I don't think we're left by these examples with a principle that is in any way tolerant of rape.

Violations of the command against adultery are very destructive of society , which really ought to be apparent to anyone who has paid attention to the cultural deterioration of the West over the last few decades.

The current "cultural deterioration of the West" is a fantasy. There is no ongoing cultural deterioration of the West under the ethical and moral standards of my generation.

Well, maybe after a couple more decades you'll see it.

But what does that have to do with patriarchy?

Rape is far more prevalent in patriarchal societies than in matriarchal or gylanic ones.

OK. But then I refer you back to the Biblical context above. The patriarchal Bible doesn't leave the rape victim without justice.

While fallen human nature does breed tyrannies, the true function of patriarchy is responsibility and caretaking, not domination.

Why should genital anatomy determine who is in charge?

That's not the reason given in the Bible, it's the fact that Adam was created first (See 1 Corinthians 11: 2-16). But men also are physically stronger and women get pregnant and have the responsibility for children if you want a couple of reasons.

Added Comment: If the "true function" of patriarchy is not domination, then one wonders why rape is more prevalent in patriarchal societies than in matriarchal ones.

Fallenness. Women came under the rule of men at the Fall, which destroyed the original role relationships between men and women. This consequence of the Fall is apparent in most nonChristian socieites still, particularly in Middle Eastern/Islamic societies. Christianity does temper the Fall, because Christ Himself broke the cultural oppression of women in His day, but the result isn't perfect, yet enough to be noticed in laws protecting and furthering women's rights in the once-Christian west.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Genomicus, posted 04-17-2017 5:03 AM Genomicus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Genomicus, posted 04-17-2017 7:11 AM Faith has responded

    
Genomicus
Member
Posts: 813
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 60 of 195 (805266)
04-17-2017 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
04-17-2017 5:47 AM


Re: Explain the Bob Jones situation for starters.
As I said rape is included under the command against adultery and is spelled out in other places.

And as I said, if your celestial psychopath wasn't a patriarchal monster, rape would have been directly mentioned and condemned in the Ten Commandments, instead of adultery.

But as for adultery it is a violation of someone's marriage, an offense against that person, not exactly a victimless crime...

There is no comparison between adultery and rape. Rape survivors go through clinical depression, PTSD, and suicide at a far higher rate than adultery "victims" ever will (not to mention social shame and risk of murder at the hands of the rapist). So why again did Yahweh choose adultery over rape, when mulling over what to mention directly in the Ten Commandments?

And then it's dealt with in Deuteronomy 22 as well, the rape of a young woman betrothed to another, verses 25-26, where the man is sentenced to be put to death for it. In the case of the rape of an unmarried woman he must pay her father a fine of 50 shekels and must marry her and never be allowed to divorce her -- because he humiliated her and she'd be vulnerable to sexual predation and other humiliations and dangers after the rape if he didn't.

Deut. 22:23-24 -- "If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife."

The rape victim here is to be executed. Which is more patriarchal psychopathy that the Old Testament god is fond of.

Notice where I bolded this, too. The man is to be executed because he violated another man's wife, not because he, y'know, he raped a woman. It is as if rape in itself is less condemned if the woman is not "betrothed" to another man, so here we see your god legislating morality on the basis of women as property of a male instead of on the basis of women as humans.

Well, maybe after a couple more decades you'll see it.

Cute.

The patriarchal Bible doesn't leave the rape victim without justice.

Marrying your rapist isn't justice, Faith. Executing a rape victim because she didn't cry for help isn't justice. What kind of twisted morality do you have here?

That's not the reason given in the Bible, it's the fact that Adam was created first (See 1 Corinthians 11: 2-16).

Why should being created first with certain genital parts mean that all individuals with those genital parts should be in charge -- or benefit from a social structure that systematically advantages them?

Women came under the rule of men at the Fall, which destroyed the original role relationships between men and women.

And now you're making stuff up that runs counter to archeological research.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 04-17-2017 5:47 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Faith, posted 04-17-2017 7:25 AM Genomicus has responded

  
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