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Author Topic:   Debunking the Evolutionary God of 'Selection'
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2467 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


(2)
Message 61 of 323 (806328)
04-24-2017 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Davidjay
04-24-2017 11:33 AM


Re: Evolution Selection supposedly sustains life ? ?
Davidjay writes:
bluegenes writes:
Davidjay writes:
Evolutionists admit their so called mutations all come about at random, but they seem to have deified their natural selction of this so called beneficial mutations with a non random deity called "SELECTION'.
So lets logically and systematically debunk this deity of theirs....
Well? We're waiting. How many posts are you going to make before you start "logically and systematically" debunking selection?
Selection is your god, not mine. Please defend your faith and state something about your beloved nonrandom selector who selects living mutations that somehow someway are already viable and ALIVE.
Ahhh you dont say your god brings them to life, you dsay your god keeps them alive by not killing them into extinction with HER environmental conditions.
OK, we are making progress, you say evolution is a SUSTAINER and PROVIDER of magic mutations that are alive and viable, and 'She' or MOTHER NATURE or a divine environment keeps them alive by her conditions, and selects and sustains these exploding mutational new life forms.
Sort of like a radiation scientist picking out new mutated life forms that are radioactive that aren;t effected by a radioactive environment....
Im not buying it, or ready to honor your god of SELECTION and her SUSTAINING ABILITIES of what is already alive.
Now we are making progress.... as logically speaking evolutionists can not say selection gives anything LIFE, it only supposedly sustains or selects life forms, or sustains life forms under her wings.....
Ahah, I knew I or we would further this debate and come to the basic premise of evolutionary theory or lies.
Well? We're waiting. How many posts are you going to make before you start "logically and systematically" debunking selection?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Davidjay, posted 04-24-2017 11:33 AM Davidjay has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9944
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 62 of 323 (806331)
04-24-2017 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Davidjay
04-24-2017 11:33 AM


Re: Evolution Selection supposedly sustains life ? ?
Davidjay writes:
Selection is your god, not mine. Please defend your faith and state something about your beloved nonrandom selector who selects living mutations that somehow someway are already viable and ALIVE.
First, we need to see if you understand the basics.
1. Do you agree that biological reproduction occurs?
2. Do you agree that offspring inherit DNA from their parents?
3. Do you agree that offspring are born with changes in their genome?
4. Do you agree that there is not an infinite amount of food for every individual and every species?
5. Do you agree that some individuals will have more offspring than others?
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9944
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 63 of 323 (806332)
04-24-2017 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Davidjay
04-24-2017 11:42 AM


Re: Benefical Mutation probability is ZERO
Davidjay writes:
Chir, when the probability of a benefical mutation ever taking hold is ZERO in one generation,
Show me a single piece of evidence that a beneficial mutation has zero chance of being passed on to the next generation.
Recombination and variability within a kind is a probability
What you keep forgetting is that variability is due to mutations. Alleles are different because their DNA sequence is different. Mutations are differences in DNA sequence.
But no new kinds or species of mankind or animal kind has developed from so called beneficial mutations or even one beneficial mutation.
Then please explain how chimps and humans are the same kind.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 64 of 323 (806344)
04-24-2017 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Tangle
04-23-2017 3:23 AM


Re: Probability
The probability of a tossed coin coming up heads is 0.5
The chance of a tossed coin coming up heads is 0.5
The difference being what?
The coin cannot toss itself. If tossed, the probability becomes a mathematical actuality, due to the fact that a force caused the momentum.
Chance implies that the force itself came about by chance.
Probability is always measurable to a concrete degree, while chance is merely
unproven theory.
In summation, chance in and of itself has no power to do anything. It is simply a term...every bit as useless as godidit. Believers ascribe power to God. The same cannot even be hypothesized in regards to chance---in and of itself.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by NoNukes, posted 04-24-2017 8:51 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 66 by Tangle, posted 04-25-2017 5:45 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 67 by Pressie, posted 04-25-2017 6:06 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 69 by Taq, posted 04-25-2017 10:46 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 70 by Theodoric, posted 04-25-2017 11:26 AM Phat has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 323 (806345)
04-24-2017 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
04-24-2017 8:25 PM


Re: Probability
Chance implies that the force itself came about by chance.
Really? So when someone says that the chance that a tossed coin will land heads, you assume that some random force is going to flip the coin. How is that not idiotic?
If you want to distinguish between statements of chance and probability, I sincerely hope you will do better than that.
The fact of the matter is that chance is just an informal term for probability. If you have some point, can you make it without insisting on writing a dictionary?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9486
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 66 of 323 (806369)
04-25-2017 5:45 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
04-24-2017 8:25 PM


Re: Probability
Phat writes:
The coin cannot toss itself. If tossed, the probability becomes a mathematical actuality, due to the fact that a force caused the momentum.
Chance implies that the force itself came about by chance.
Probability is always measurable to a concrete degree, while chance is merely unproven theory.
This is a bit silly Phat. Chance and probability have the same meaning in normal use.
In summation, chance in and of itself has no power to do anything. It is simply a term...every bit as useless as godidit. Believers ascribe power to God. The same cannot even be hypothesized in regards to chance---in and of itself.
No one ascribes any sort of external power to chance - it's just a description of how some things come about. A coin landing heads for example is chance. 50:50 in this case.
If you're trying to go along with the usual nonsense of evolution being simply chance, you're as wrong as they are. Chance plays a role but selection decides it.
How come we have to do this over and over and over?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 67 of 323 (806370)
04-25-2017 6:06 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
04-24-2017 8:25 PM


Re: Probability
Phat writes:
The coin cannot toss itself. If tossed, the probability becomes a mathematical actuality, due to the fact that a force caused the momentum.
He-he-he. I play some game with my physics friends where some "coin" made by magnetic material is tossed by magnets when the magnetic fields are turned on. It's quite challenging to try and figure figure out where exactly the "coin" is supposed to land before the time. Yet, it lands somewhere.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

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frako
Member (Idle past 296 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 68 of 323 (806372)
04-25-2017 6:24 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Davidjay
04-24-2017 11:48 AM


Re: Evolutionists cant defend their god of Selection
Just because you lack the mental capacity to understand such a simple concept as evolution does not mean you won the debate.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9944
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


(3)
Message 69 of 323 (806382)
04-25-2017 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
04-24-2017 8:25 PM


Re: Probability
Phat writes:
Probability is always measurable to a concrete degree, while chance is merely unproven theory.
We can prove (beyond a reasonable doubt) that mutations are random with respect to fitness. This was done back in the 1940's and 1950's by people such as the Lederberg's, Luria, and Delbruck, the latter two of which won a Nobel prize in part because of their work on mutations.
What they found is that mutations conferring antibiotic or bacteriophage resistance occurred when there was no antibiotic or bacteriophage around. Those mutations were just clicking away in the background without any meaningful connection to what the organism may need or not need in a given environment.
For the purposes of the theory of evolution, this is the only context we need in order to model evolution. Mutations are said to be random because there is no meaningful connection between the mutations that occur and the mutations that the organism needs. In another context, the outcome of a throw of dice is not influenced by which numbers the thrower needs. When you play craps, the odds of rolling a 7 are not influenced by where the chips are on the table. The roll of the dice is random with respect to the bets in the same way that mutations are random with respect to the needs of the organism.

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9053
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 70 of 323 (806396)
04-25-2017 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
04-24-2017 8:25 PM


Re: Probability
This might explain a little of your gambling problem. I think you do not truly understand probability and chance.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 71 of 323 (806399)
04-25-2017 11:42 AM


Variability is an excuse by evolutionists to try and give evolution credibility.
Variability as in mankind, is limited to the superficial, as with leg length etc etc etc etc etc... and more etc. Its variety but we do NOT get a new species or apelike creature from our combinations via mating
STUDY GENETICS evolutionists and stop this insanity of yours !!!

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 77 by herebedragons, posted 04-25-2017 12:01 PM Davidjay has not replied
 Message 80 by bluegenes, posted 04-25-2017 12:26 PM Davidjay has not replied
 Message 83 by RAZD, posted 04-25-2017 1:45 PM Davidjay has replied
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ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 72 of 323 (806400)
04-25-2017 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Davidjay
04-25-2017 11:42 AM


Davidjay writes:
Variability as in mankind, is limited to the superficial, as with leg length etc etc etc etc etc... and more etc.
What sets the limit? What barrier is there to prevent variation from going any farther?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Davidjay, posted 04-25-2017 11:42 AM Davidjay has not replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 73 of 323 (806401)
04-25-2017 11:45 AM


STUDY GENETICS
Stop supporting racism with your evolutionary doctrine that we are branching out to new species, or superior species, or more viable species, whatever your insane terminolgies allow you to say.
No, variety of humans is not evolution. I am taller than my wife, and are children are a combination of those lengths, and recessive and dominant genes persist depending on the recombination.
Have you people never ever studied how the DNA splits, and the recombinations occur.... just because you have a religion of evolution, dont negate all of true science because of your wish for NO CREATOR and NO DESIGN.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

Replies to this message:
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 74 of 323 (806404)
04-25-2017 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Theodoric
04-25-2017 11:26 AM


Re: Probability
Again evolutionists insisting that others and the sane and the logical ones, dont understand their insanity and lack of science and math, etc.
Theo.. the probability of ZERO is ZERO. No matter how many times you shake your hands and throw the dice, when there is nothing on the dice, you never get a probability.
Evolution is totally a religion of luck and chance and is not scientific. Even there luck and chance is ZERO.
There is no probability of a BENEFICIAL MUTATION. Explosions in our gonads do not bring about beneficial changes to our children... STUDY MEDICINE, study NUCLEAR RADIATION, etc.. STUDY GENETICS
Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Theodoric, posted 04-25-2017 11:26 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 78 by Theodoric, posted 04-25-2017 12:02 PM Davidjay has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 75 of 323 (806405)
04-25-2017 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Davidjay
04-25-2017 11:48 AM


Re: Probability
Davidjay writes:
No matter how many times you shake your hands and throw the dice, when there is nothing on the dice, you never get a probability.
there's always something on the dice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Davidjay, posted 04-25-2017 11:48 AM Davidjay has not replied

  
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