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Author Topic:   Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Dredge
Member
Posts: 350
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 241 of 393 (809304)
05-17-2017 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Taq
05-17-2017 6:11 PM


Re: a few bones
Taq writes:

peer reviewed literature

Can the cult of Darwinism be trusted to produce "peer reviewed literarure"? This is like expecting the literature produced by Jehovah's Witnesses to be peer reviewed!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Taq, posted 05-17-2017 6:11 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Taq, posted 05-17-2017 6:31 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 6439
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 242 of 393 (809305)
05-17-2017 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by Dredge
05-17-2017 6:29 PM


Re: a few bones
Dredge writes:

Can the cult of Darwinism be trusted to produce "peer reviewed literarure"? This is like expecting the literature produced by Jehovah's Witnesses to be peer reviewed!

Yet another pathetic attempt to use mockery to avoid the evidence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Dredge, posted 05-17-2017 6:29 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 350
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 243 of 393 (809325)
05-17-2017 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Taq
05-17-2017 6:04 PM


Since I am not qualified to assess your ideas in posts 4, 9, 12, 13, 17, I referred them to Chicko. He said the respective observations can just as easily be used as arguments for Intelligent Design!

Your claim that "only evolution" can explain the observations possibly constitutes the informal fallacy of the false dilemma, in philosophy-speak.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Taq, posted 05-17-2017 6:04 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by JonF, posted 05-17-2017 9:25 PM Dredge has responded
 Message 247 by Coyote, posted 05-17-2017 9:52 PM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 249 by Taq, posted 05-18-2017 11:39 AM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1463
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 244 of 393 (809333)
05-17-2017 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Dredge
05-17-2017 5:52 PM


Re: a few bones
Taq writes:

the very definition of a transitional fossil


That's what they say about, Archaeopteryx, but there are many scientists who disagree.

I think that is a lie. Can you document this?

My personal favorite transitional is the Platypus, extinct for 3.3429087 million years. Some folks in Australia claimed to have seen them (!) but all these so-called witnesses turned out to be loony Jesus-freak creationists.

So who besides you claims that Platypus is a transitional? Who claims it is extinct? 3.3429087 million years, really? You must have pulled this one right out of your ass.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Dredge, posted 05-17-2017 5:52 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by CRR, posted 05-20-2017 10:49 PM Tanypteryx has responded
 Message 327 by Dredge, posted 05-22-2017 8:41 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15928
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 245 of 393 (809340)
05-17-2017 8:54 PM


Dredge appears to have gone mad.

... well, madder.


Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Dredge, posted 05-19-2017 8:09 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 3535
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 246 of 393 (809344)
05-17-2017 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by Dredge
05-17-2017 7:40 PM


He said the respective observations can just as easily be used as arguments for Intelligent Design!

Easily said. Much more difficult to demonstrate. Let's see the arguments for ID based on that evidence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Dredge, posted 05-17-2017 7:40 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Dredge, posted 05-19-2017 8:16 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5783
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 247 of 393 (809348)
05-17-2017 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by Dredge
05-17-2017 7:40 PM


Intelligent design = creationism = creation "science"
He said the respective observations can just as easily be used as arguments for Intelligent Design!

Intelligent design came into being as a way to circumvent the US Supreme Court's decision against teaching creationism or creation "science" in schools.

Its a sordid story of creationists lying, and playing hide the religion.

From RationalWiki:

The term "cdesign proponentsists" came into being following the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District trial in Pennsylvania over the legitimacy of teaching intelligent design as science.

A crucial piece of the defense (pro-intelligent design) was a book called Of Pandas and People which was marketed as a science textbook for middle and high school children. During the trial, previous copies of the book were subpoenaed for review. It was demonstrated that, whenever previous versions of the book had the terms "creationist" or "creationism" or some similar form, it had been replaced in almost all cases with the terms "design proponents" and "intelligent design" in later editions.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cdesign_proponentsists

How dishonest can you get? But that dishonesty pulled the covers off the attempt to smuggle religion into schools in the guise of intelligent design. And it showed that intelligent design was pure creationism with the serial numbers filed off in the hope of fooling people.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Dredge, posted 05-17-2017 7:40 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11346
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 248 of 393 (809375)
05-18-2017 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by Dredge
05-17-2017 5:59 PM


NewCat'sEye writes:

Without evolution, biology just doesn't make much sense.


Are you saying that I must accept, for example, that humans evolved from a hominid, in order for biology to make sense to me?

Nope.

First off, humans are still hominids so it doesn't make sense to say that we evolved from them.

Second, I don't know what will, or will not, make sense to you in particular.

What I am saying is that the knowledge we have from biology would be a bunch of independent data points that didn't tie together and couldn't be made sense of as a whole if we didn't have the Theory of Evolution to explain it all.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Dredge, posted 05-17-2017 5:59 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by Dredge, posted 05-20-2017 6:28 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 6439
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 249 of 393 (809424)
05-18-2017 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by Dredge
05-17-2017 7:40 PM


Dredge writes:

Since I am not qualified to assess your ideas in posts 4, 9, 12, 13, 17, I referred them to Chicko. He said the respective observations can just as easily be used as arguments for Intelligent Design!

In what world do you think that is a valid refutation of what was presented?

Your claim that "only evolution" can explain the observations possibly constitutes the informal fallacy of the false dilemma, in philosophy-speak.

Can you show me another explanation?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Dredge, posted 05-17-2017 7:40 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13023
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(3)
Message 250 of 393 (809443)
05-18-2017 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Dredge
05-17-2017 6:23 PM


Dredge writes:

... ignoring the possibility that there could be another explanation, known or as yet unknown.


Nobody denies that there "could" be another explanation. But the plain fact is that there ISN'T another explanation. Biology makes sense in the light of the only explanation we have.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Dredge, posted 05-17-2017 6:23 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11346
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 251 of 393 (809492)
05-18-2017 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by Dredge
05-17-2017 5:34 PM


NewCat'sEye writes:

the usefulness of this science

Yeah, right - just like the Theory of Parallel Universes is useful!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Dredge, posted 05-17-2017 5:34 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1463
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 252 of 393 (809494)
05-18-2017 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by Dredge
05-17-2017 5:34 PM


NewCat'sEye writes:

the usefulness of this science


Yeah, right - just like the Theory of Parallel Universes is useful!

Hmmmm, the Theory of Parallel Universes, I don't know that one. What is it?

Those of us who use the science of evolutionary biology obviously find it useful.

If you don't, fine, your loss, but I don't see why it pisses you off.

When it comes to discussions of usefulness I would say, Christianity? Yeah, just like Scientology is useful.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Dredge, posted 05-17-2017 5:34 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1463
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(2)
Message 253 of 393 (809497)
05-18-2017 3:33 PM


Useful applications of evolutionary theory and processes
In my career I spent a lot of time studying invasive species (exotics), primarily insects. We had active programs trapping insects around ports, airports and other places that were vectors for exotic species. Part of these programs was called Early Detection, Rapid Response or EDRR. It was an attempt to stop the exotics from spreading beyond the initial infestation.

A second longer term strategy involved studying the target species to understand its biology and evolution and including native or exotic close relatives. If possible, we wanted to use parasites, predators, diseases, etc. as bio-controls of the target. Learning as much as possible of the phylogeny or evolutionary history of the target and the bio-controls allowed us to make decisions on how best to control the target without creating other unexpected problems, like inadvertently attacking native species or introducing a new pest.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Faith, posted 05-18-2017 6:07 PM Tanypteryx has responded
 Message 267 by Dredge, posted 05-20-2017 6:16 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 24846
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 254 of 393 (809524)
05-18-2017 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Tanypteryx
05-18-2017 3:33 PM


Re: Useful applications of evolutionary theory and processes
I could see the usefulness of knowing the microevolutionary history which is about all you can know anyway, especially since there is no further history involved.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-18-2017 3:33 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Taq, posted 05-18-2017 6:09 PM Faith has responded
 Message 257 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-18-2017 6:29 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 260 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-18-2017 10:20 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 6439
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 255 of 393 (809525)
05-18-2017 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by Faith
05-18-2017 6:07 PM


Re: Useful applications of evolutionary theory and processes
Faith writes:

The mere existence of such a depth of strata and such an abundance of dead things is what I'm talking about, that alone is the evidence for the Flood, there is no other explanation needed.

Why should we believe anything you say when you have already admitted that you can't ever say that divergent species share a common ancestor? Your mind has already been made up before you look at any evidence, so why should anyone listen to your opinions on the matter?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by Faith, posted 05-18-2017 6:07 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by Faith, posted 05-18-2017 6:27 PM Taq has responded
 Message 259 by Faith, posted 05-18-2017 6:30 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
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