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Author Topic:   Science is Revealed Truth
bluegenes
Member
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 76 of 150 (808292)
05-09-2017 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by NosyNed
05-09-2017 4:28 PM


Re: Poe?
NosyNed writes:

Poe? No. DJ is, in my very uneducated opinion, ill. He should have but won't seek psychological help.

The language use combined with the content does support that view. However, there are so many borderline cases who turn up here, and we're inevitably dealing with delusions anyway, so it's hard to make the call.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by NosyNed, posted 05-09-2017 4:28 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Davidjay, posted 05-10-2017 9:29 AM bluegenes has not yet responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 77 of 150 (808337)
05-10-2017 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by bluegenes
05-09-2017 4:36 PM


ReJ is educated and experienced
Brethren and non brethren..... I am not the subject here. Using this thread on science as a vechicle to release your frustrations at losing this debate and others is not honourable, You are tyrying to turn a objective debate into a low class subjective debate. Please follow the rules of engagement, and stay or try to be objective and real scientists.

If you are intelligent and educated, use your so called intelligence and education to beat my intelligence and education BOTH in the real world and in the educational field called science.

For it seems you have no arrows in your quills, and no sense to your arguments, and no class in your responses.

Intelligence and class always wins, show some.

Thanks

David


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by bluegenes, posted 05-09-2017 4:36 PM bluegenes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Taq, posted 05-10-2017 10:56 AM Davidjay has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 6632
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 78 of 150 (808352)
05-10-2017 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Davidjay
05-10-2017 9:29 AM


Re: ReJ is educated and experienced
Davidjay writes:

If you are intelligent and educated, use your so called intelligence and education to beat my intelligence and education BOTH in the real world and in the educational field called science.

29+ tests for evolution:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

Consider your intelligence defeated.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Davidjay, posted 05-10-2017 9:29 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Davidjay, posted 05-10-2017 10:59 AM Taq has responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 79 of 150 (808354)
05-10-2017 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Taq
05-10-2017 10:56 AM


Re: ReJ is educated and experienced
Taq, how convenient that you try to change the topic and away from the deplorable remarks of your evolutionists.

Please stay on topic and not clog this thread with your side topic.... also it gives room for their apologies for their deplorable slurs.

Please read and study

Atheists and Evolutionists have no morality thread


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Taq, posted 05-10-2017 10:56 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Taq, posted 05-10-2017 11:31 AM Davidjay has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 6632
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.1


(4)
Message 80 of 150 (808368)
05-10-2017 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Davidjay
05-10-2017 10:59 AM


Re: ReJ is educated and experienced
Davidjay writes:

Taq, how convenient that you try to change the topic and away from the deplorable remarks of your evolutionists.
Please stay on topic and not clog this thread with your side topic.... also it gives room for their apologies for their deplorable slurs.

Please read and study

Atheists and Evolutionists have no morality thread

The topic is Science as revealed truth. One of the reasons that science is considered to be revealed truth is that it is testable. You made the claim that evolution is not testable. I defeated your intelligence by demonstrating that evolution is testable.

Consider yourself defeated.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Davidjay, posted 05-10-2017 10:59 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Davidjay, posted 05-10-2017 12:01 PM Taq has responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 81 of 150 (808374)
05-10-2017 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Taq
05-10-2017 11:31 AM


Re: J is educated and experienced
Spiritality is testable, as I mentioned. Jesus is testable as I mentioned, the invisable can be tested.

And evolution can not be tested, only theorised. You can try to make new artistic graphs, and suggest bone A fits into Bone B, but suggestions and quesses are not proofs.

But I must give you a chance, please show your test results..... of evolutionists trying to support other evolutionists.

Did you test my exact methods in finding out truths about the invisable spiritual world, using the experimental scientific method I gave, so you can KNOW for sure...from personal experience.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Taq, posted 05-10-2017 11:31 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Taq, posted 05-10-2017 1:12 PM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 83 by RAZD, posted 05-10-2017 1:46 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 6632
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.1


(4)
Message 82 of 150 (808384)
05-10-2017 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Davidjay
05-10-2017 12:01 PM


Re: J is educated and experienced
Davidjay writes:

Spiritality is testable, as I mentioned. Jesus is testable as I mentioned, the invisable can be tested.

How is it testable?

And evolution can not be tested, only theorised.

29+ tests for evolution:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

Your intelligence has been defeated once again.

But I must give you a chance, please show your test results..... of evolutionists trying to support other evolutionists.

Here they are:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

Did you test my exact methods in finding out truths about the invisable spiritual world, using the experimental scientific method I gave, so you can KNOW for sure...from personal experience.

What's the method? What's the null hypothesis?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Davidjay, posted 05-10-2017 12:01 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 05-13-2017 9:01 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18654
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


(3)
Message 83 of 150 (808389)
05-10-2017 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Davidjay
05-10-2017 12:01 PM


Re: DJ is educated and experienced
Spiritality is testable, as I mentioned. Jesus is testable as I mentioned, the invisable can be tested.

And evolution can not be tested, only theorised. You can try to make new artistic graphs, and suggest bone A fits into Bone B, but suggestions and quesses are not proofs.

It appears that you don't know what "testable" means in the scientific context, because in the context of science both these statements are false.

The only one being fooled by your statements is you.

You lose again.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Davidjay, posted 05-10-2017 12:01 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 84 of 150 (808804)
05-13-2017 8:52 AM


Revealed truth.... we came from extinct clade Euarchonta
Ive been trying to get one of the basic questions of evolution answered HEREIN, and thought I had finally got evolutionists out of their shells to answer, where mankind came from. What branch did we come from ? Who was our ancestor ?

So as revealed truth..... it seemed three different people stated the same sort of slippery answer. Can we through the scientific method of science discern this answer of theirs..

From

http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=page&t=19414&mpp=1...

You son of a silly person! You've been told what was ancestral to primates: some long-extinct member of the clade Euarchonta. The same clade that gave rise to bats. NOT bats, ancestors of bats. And ancestors of primates, so ancestors of you and me.

Evolutionists usually say I misunderstand and that only evolutionists understand evolution. But isn;t Coragyp saying that
Eurachonta is our ancestor... but its long extinct and probably has no verification in bones opr fossils, but it was our ancestor.. according to the theory of evolution.

So this mysterious non existant clade of Euarchonta... is suppose to be our ancestor....... and bats also arose from this clade or branch, as evolution branched out.

This making bats not our ancestor but branching out from this mysterious forefather of ours that went extinct, yet branched out into humans and bats afterwards. Bats are therefore our cousins and uncles but not our forefathers and grandparents.

I think I understand the dementia now that evolutionists were trying to explain, a non existing extinct forefather of ours also called a missing LINK) created us and bats.

And as a non evolutionist I am suppose to just accept this, without question. No wonder their double speak wording eluded me.

Nah, I still dont think this is scientific and revealed truth.

Do you think its revealed truth ?

PS) I apologise sort of to all those that I may have referred to as bat people, when apparrently, bats are our cousins and nephews and not our forefathers. The wierd branching threw me off and your explanations and family tree was way to far fetched for me.

And Ive learned not to invite my cousins to live in our attic.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Tangle, posted 05-13-2017 9:40 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 87 by RAZD, posted 05-14-2017 8:48 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 88 by Davidjay, posted 05-14-2017 9:54 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 99 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-15-2017 4:35 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9426
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 85 of 150 (808806)
05-13-2017 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Taq
05-10-2017 1:12 PM


Evidence vs Revelation
Davidjay writes:

Spiritality is testable, as I mentioned. Jesus is testable as I mentioned, the invisible can be tested.

How is it testable?

This is a good question. How specifically can a theory be tested?

How specifically can a belief be validated?

Is the method the same in both cases?

When science crosses over into faith & belief....or Visa Versa... Is the testing methodology the same?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Taq, posted 05-10-2017 1:12 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4766
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.1


(3)
Message 86 of 150 (808810)
05-13-2017 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Davidjay
05-13-2017 8:52 AM


Re: Revealed truth.... we came from extinct clade Euarchonta
Davidjay writes:

And as a non evolutionist I am suppose to just accept this, without question.

Absolutely not. There is no need to accept anything in science just because someone tells you so. That's how religion works not science.

If you have doubts - or even extreme scepticism - you should get to work understanding what it is that you are being told and then study the actual evidence that supports it.

At the moment it is clear that you don't actually understand the ideas that you are rejecting - hence your mistakes of how bats are related to us in the mammal family tree. You don't even understand the base principles so your attempts at argument fail at the first line.

Instead of claiming victory when you hear us all laughing at you, you need to work out why we're laughing. If I was you, I'd read the theory from a proper scientific source - this one is good

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_01

You can't hope to defeat your opponant if you haven't the first clue about who, what and where he is. At the moment you're tilting at a windmill and we're all looking on, a bit puzzled.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Davidjay, posted 05-13-2017 8:52 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18654
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 87 of 150 (808864)
05-14-2017 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Davidjay
05-13-2017 8:52 AM


Revealed truth.... and some dB coding tips
http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=page&t=19414&mpp=1...

This just goes to page 15 on that thread. People can set page preferences for the number of messages on a page, and thus they would get different results from your preferences.

A better way to refer to a message is to use the grey number in the header, and the message header in question has:

Message 215 of 286 (807084)

This grey number is a unique identifier for that particular message that can be used as follows:

type [mid=807084] and it becomes: Message 215

PS) I apologise sort of to all those that I may have referred to as bat people, when apparrently, bats are our cousins and nephews and not our forefathers. The wierd branching threw me off and your explanations and family tree was way to far fetched for me.

We have a winner, you learned something. You may not fully accept it (yet), but you learned what the argument is and corrected your previous misunderstanding. The cognitive dissonance you were experiencing has been resolved, it seems.

Evolutionists usually say I misunderstand and that only evolutionists understand evolution. But isn;t Coragyp saying that
Eurachonta is our ancestor... but its long extinct and probably has no verification in bones opr fossils, but it was our ancestor.. according to the theory of evolution.

Not just bones and fossils, but also by DNA analysis. Just as DNA analysis can show paternity and descent in living people, comparing DNA between siblings and someone not closely related shows more in common between the siblings than between either one and the outgroup person. This type analysis is also done between species and is another way to check\determine our tree of ancestry for species:

quote:
Euarchontoglires (synonymous with Supraprimates) is a clade and a superorder of mammals, the living members of which belong to one of the five following groups: rodents, lagomorphs, treeshrews, colugos and primates.

The Euarchontoglires clade is based on DNA sequence analyses and retrotransposon markers that combine the clades Glires (Rodentia + Lagomorpha) and Euarchonta (Scandentia + Primates + Dermoptera).[citation needed] So far, few if any anatomical features that support Euarchontoglires have been recognized, nor does any strong evidence from anatomy support alternative hypotheses.


quote:
Laurasiatheria is a superorder of placental mammals that originated on the northern supercontinent of Laurasia 99 million years ago. The superorder includes shrews, pangolins, bats, whales, carnivorans, odd-toed and even-toed ungulates, among others.

Laurasiatheria was discovered on the basis of the similar gene sequences shared by the mammals belonging to it; no anatomical features have yet been found that unite the group. Laurasiatheria is a clade usually discussed without a Linnaean rank, but has been assigned the rank of cohort or magnorder, and superorder. The Laurasiatheria clade is based on DNA sequence analyses and retrotransposon presence/absence data. The name comes from the theory that these mammals evolved on the supercontinent of Laurasia, after it split from Gondwana when Pangaea broke up. It is a sister group to Euarchontoglires (or Supraprimates) with which it forms the clade Boreoeutheria. ...


quote:
Boreoeutheria (synonymous with Boreotheria) (Greek: βόρειο "north" + ευ "good" + θεριό "beast") is a clade (magnorder) of placental mammals that is composed of the sister taxa Laurasiatheria (most hoofed mammals, most pawed carnivores, and several other groups) and Euarchontoglires (Supraprimates). It is now well supported by DNA sequence analyses, as well as retrotransposon presence or absence data.

The earliest known fossils belonging to this group date to about 65 million years ago, shortly after the K-Pg extinction event, though molecular data suggest they may have originated earlier, during the Cretaceous period.[1]


Also see Classification
and Cladogram

So where does Euarchonta fit into this scheme of things?

quote:
The Eurachonta are a proposed grandorder of mammals containing four orders: the Dermoptera or colugos, the Scandentia or treeshrews, the extinct Plesiadapiformes, and the Primates.

Kingdom:Animalia
Phylum:Chordata
Class:Mammalia
Superorder:Euarchontoglires
Grandorder:Euarchonta

Euarchonta is a subgroup of Euarchontoglires, and hence a subgroup of Boreoeutheria, so recent analysis (March and April 2017) has put our common ancestor (Boreoeutheria) with bats even further back in time.

Revealed by genetic testing rather than bones and fossils (which are in short supply at this point).

I find these explorations into scientific details interesting and exciting, as I am always learning new tidbits along the way, and that is one of the reasons I keep coming back to the forum -- to find new truths that science has revealed.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Davidjay, posted 05-13-2017 8:52 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 88 of 150 (808872)
05-14-2017 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Davidjay
05-13-2017 8:52 AM


Re: Revealed truth.... we came from extinct clade Euarchonta
Ive been trying to get one of the basic questions of evolution answered HEREIN, and thought I had finally got evolutionists out of their shells to answer, where mankind came from. What branch did we come from ? Who was our ancestor ?
So as revealed truth..... it seemed three different people stated the same sort of slippery answer. Can we through the scientific method of science discern this answer of theirs..

From

http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=page&t=19414&mpp=1...

You son of a silly person! You've been told what was ancestral to primates: some long-extinct member of the clade Euarchonta. The same clade that gave rise to bats. NOT bats, ancestors of bats. And ancestors of primates, so ancestors of you and me.

Evolutionists usually say I misunderstand and that only evolutionists understand evolution. But isn;t Coragyp saying that
Eurachonta is our ancestor... but its long extinct and probably has no verification in bones opr fossils, but it was our ancestor.. according to the theory of evolution.

So this mysterious non existant clade of Euarchonta... is suppose to be our ancestor....... and bats also arose from this clade or branch, as evolution branched out.

This making bats not our ancestor but branching out from this mysterious forefather of ours that went extinct, yet branched out into humans and bats afterwards. Bats are therefore our cousins and uncles but not our forefathers and grandparents.

I think I understand the dementia now that evolutionists were trying to explain, a non existing extinct forefather of ours also called a missing LINK) created us and bats.

And as a non evolutionist I am suppose to just accept this, without question. No wonder their double speak wording eluded me.

Nah, I still dont think this is scientific and revealed truth.

Do you think its revealed truth ?

PS) I apologise sort of to all those that I may have referred to as bat people, when apparrently, bats are our cousins and nephews and not our forefathers. The wierd branching threw me off and your explanations and family tree was way to far fetched for me.

And Ive learned not to invite my cousins to live in our attic.

Evolutionists run when asked a question, so try to attack as they have no answers in defense of their theory... so lets try to bring them out of the bushes again...... because revealed truth in science is testable and verifiable. So lets verify 'Euarchonta' because many or most say we humans came from Euarchonta....

But then they say, this missing link is extinct.

So can we test this theory of theirs... ? Yes or NO, or is it just a wild hope and quess, and pure fiction.

The answer is


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Davidjay, posted 05-13-2017 8:52 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by xongsmith, posted 05-14-2017 3:14 PM Davidjay has responded

    
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1779
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(3)
Message 89 of 150 (808893)
05-14-2017 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Davidjay
05-14-2017 9:54 AM


Re: Revealed truth.... we came from extinct clade Euarchonta
DJ writes:

......So lets verify 'Euarchonta' because many or most say we humans came from Euarchonta....

But then they say, this missing link is extinct.

A clade that has any descendant still reproducing today is NOT extinct. A species can go extinct, which makes it a terminal node in the graph of the Euarchonta clade branches - just one of it's many branchings.

So bats and humans are still reproducing parts of this clade's graph.


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Davidjay, posted 05-14-2017 9:54 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Davidjay, posted 05-15-2017 9:05 AM xongsmith has responded
 Message 91 by Davidjay, posted 05-15-2017 9:08 AM xongsmith has responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 90 of 150 (808961)
05-15-2017 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by xongsmith
05-14-2017 3:14 PM


Re: Revealed truth.... we came from extinct clade Euarchonta
So X, were treeshrews our ancestors ? as the others have mentioned..

I say our ancestors were human, and so who do you say our ancestors were ?

Please no semantics or lengthy double speak, just a straight forward answer would suffice


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by xongsmith, posted 05-14-2017 3:14 PM xongsmith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Tangle, posted 05-15-2017 9:39 AM Davidjay has responded
 Message 97 by xongsmith, posted 05-15-2017 2:13 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
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