Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 116 (8794 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 10-17-2017 1:58 AM
321 online now:
GDR, NoNukes, PaulK, Pressie (4 members, 317 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: jaufre
Upcoming Birthdays: Astrophile
Post Volume:
Total: 820,726 Year: 25,332/21,208 Month: 959/2,338 Week: 80/450 Day: 4/34 Hour: 1/3

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
1
2Next
Author Topic:   Discuss the origins of EVOLUTION
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 1 of 21 (807617)
05-04-2017 11:32 AM


Because of its great importance to this debate, we should begin with evolutions beginning. Lets study, and research and discuss when the idea of evolution first started. Was it with Darwins observational theory, or did it come before to different scientists or religionists in the past.

Lets make it an OPEN DISCUSSION, where evolutionists can come and discuss evolution's HISTORY. WE have discussed Creations exact history since its GENESIS, so why not in fairness allow the evolutionists to have equasl time in the Sun, to study, research and discuss their history of evolution.

Sincerely

David


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 05-04-2017 2:40 PM Davidjay has responded

  
AdminPhat
Administrator
Posts: 1815
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


Message 2 of 21 (807661)
05-04-2017 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Davidjay
05-04-2017 11:32 AM


Topic Direction
Will this be a science based topic? Surely there is no faith involved in this theory is there? Or do you see it differently?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Davidjay, posted 05-04-2017 11:32 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Davidjay, posted 05-04-2017 5:52 PM AdminPhat has not yet responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


(1)
Message 3 of 21 (807680)
05-04-2017 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
05-04-2017 2:40 PM


Re: Topic Direction
This thread proposal involves, the history of evolution doctrine. When did it start historically ? It covers the theories originaters and proponents from the Beginning, just as with the Creation History that we have gone over.

Science is laws, but evolution is still a theory, so you can place it where you like. I am just proposing this much needed subject and topic.

This is a chance for evolutionists to declare and state their origins of their theory, and stand behind it and explain it in a reasoned descriptive way. They can choose to say it started with Darwins observations on the Species, or previous observations from previous viewers or theorists. Its their chance to lead, and to direct the past into the present and onto the future.... but HEREIN, lets hear what they have to say about their HISTORY of Evolution....

Good debates involve both sides answering questions about their claims or statements or History or Origins.... I or we answered, so why not give evolutionists a chance to explain their side of their theory.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 05-04-2017 2:40 PM AdminPhat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 05-05-2017 9:28 AM Davidjay has responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12533
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 4 of 21 (807751)
05-05-2017 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Davidjay
05-04-2017 5:52 PM


Re: Topic Direction
I'd like to see improvements in your ability to engage in true discussion with fellow debaters before promoting any more of your thread proposals. For example, in the Numerological Arguments that the Speed of Light was Designed thread you've ignored all the responses pointing out math errors. You still haven't figured out quoting and how to use the dBCodes (again, see dBCode Help). I'd like to see you begin quoting specific points that you then address. When we begin seeing improvements of this kind we can reconsider promoting this thread proposal.

Edited by Admin, : Grammar.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Davidjay, posted 05-04-2017 5:52 PM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Davidjay, posted 05-05-2017 10:57 AM Admin has acknowledged this reply

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 5 of 21 (807760)
05-05-2017 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Admin
05-05-2017 9:28 AM


Open Discussion Needed and Valuable
But Admin, my thread... http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&t=19428 was very well explained..... I have explained the math, and answered honest questions, as I go onward in explaining how light speed is by Design.

Posting explanations 36 times, and answering replies 22 times

Davidjay 36 22/49 Fetch

Besides giving about five hyperlinks from my math work, which in themselves also contain further explanatory articles via hyperlinks.

An evolutionist has no math, and so might have a lot of difficulty understanding math, that I presented. Besides if evolutionists agreed with me, and these facts of distance and time and SPEED, they would have to stop being evolutionists. And as that is very very rare, the rejection by evolutionists can not be a deciding factor as to the validity of the thread.

So they need not worry about starting a new TOPIC called the Origin of Evolution, or the Origin of the Species, or the History of Evolution.

They should understand and be able to explain their beginnings. Lets all do the research and discuss it like mature adults and mature researchers.

I have never written anything on this before, so we start afresh on all sides. An OPEN DISCUSSION, open research on evolution, history, and origin.

Evolutionists can discuss it among themselves, I and others can enter IN, and they can answer queries as to their beginnings or the beginning of their theory. Did it just start with Darwin, or did their history go back further /

These kind of questions are VALID, INTERESTING, and NEEDED.

Evolutions need a chance to explain their origins.

Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 05-05-2017 9:28 AM Admin has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Davidjay, posted 05-05-2017 11:05 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 8 by AdminPhat, posted 05-05-2017 1:36 PM Davidjay has responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 6 of 21 (807763)
05-05-2017 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Davidjay
05-05-2017 10:57 AM


Re: Open Discussion Needed and Valuable
I repeat Open discussion and two sided debate is valuable and much needed. Evolutionists need a chance to understand and know and explain their origins

Agreed, I love discussions..... debate...and stimulating the mind


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Davidjay, posted 05-05-2017 10:57 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Admin, posted 05-05-2017 1:18 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12533
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.8


(2)
Message 7 of 21 (807794)
05-05-2017 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Davidjay
05-05-2017 11:05 AM


Re: Open Discussion Needed and Valuable
Davidjay writes:

I repeat Open discussion and two sided debate is valuable and much needed. Evolutionists need a chance to understand and know and explain their origins

Agreed, I love discussions..... debate...and stimulating the mind

Your quote isn't from any text in this thread - where did it come from? Did you put your own original text in a quote box and then respond in agreement to it? You're just increasing my doubts that you understand how to participate in a discussion.

When in other threads I observe you engaging in back-and-forth discussion with other participants then I can consider this thread again.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Davidjay, posted 05-05-2017 11:05 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
AdminPhat
Administrator
Posts: 1815
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


Message 8 of 21 (807801)
05-05-2017 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Davidjay
05-05-2017 10:57 AM


Re: Open Discussion Needed and Valuable
DJ writes:

Besides giving about five hyperlinks from my math work, which in themselves also contain further explanatory articles via hyperlinks.

An evolutionist has no math, and so might have a lot of difficulty understanding math, that I presented. Besides if evolutionists agreed with me, and these facts of distance and time and SPEED, they would have to stop being evolutionists. And as that is very very rare, the rejection by evolutionists can not be a deciding factor as to the validity of the thread.

So they need not worry about starting a new TOPIC called the Origin of Evolution, or the Origin of the Species, or the History of Evolution.

They should understand and be able to explain their beginnings. Lets all do the research and discuss it like mature adults and mature researchers.

I might add that were this to be a science based topic it would have to be open to valid criticism and you yourself would need to show that your math was replicable and accepted by mainstream science rather than simply a proof that YOU invented.

Davidjay, as you may know, I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I believe that He is alive today. I agree with you that God is the origin of scientific thought...BUT...I know enough to stay out of a science thread because I have no proof for my belief that can be replicated and independently studied, questioned, and perhaps challenged. A Faith-based topic needs no such evidence though it may well be discussed there. None of us have the final answer on anything...I don't care whether you wrote a book or ten books...you still need to go through the process of the scientific method IF the topic is in the science forums. Does that make sense? We will keep this topic proposal open to give you an opportunity to revise your opening statement and to think about how the topic will benefit the layman reader.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Davidjay, posted 05-05-2017 10:57 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Davidjay, posted 05-06-2017 10:35 AM AdminPhat has not yet responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


(1)
Message 9 of 21 (807880)
05-06-2017 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by AdminPhat
05-05-2017 1:36 PM


Re: Open Discussion Needed and Valuable
I might add that were this to be a science based topic it would have to be open to valid criticism and you yourself would need to show that your math was replicable and accepted by mainstream science rather than simply a proof that YOU invented.
Davidjay, as you may know, I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I believe that He is alive today. I agree with you that God is the origin of scientific thought...BUT...I know enough to stay out of a science thread because I have no proof for my belief that can be replicated and independently studied, questioned, and perhaps challenged. A Faith-based topic needs no such evidence though it may well be discussed there. None of us have the final answer on anything...I don't care whether you wrote a book or ten books...you still need to go through the process of the scientific method IF the topic is in the science forums. Does that make sense? We will keep this topic proposal open to give you an opportunity to revise your opening statement and to think about how the topic will benefit the layman reader.

Phat, you have to get beyond exact math that proves design.... this topic is about the History of Evolution, the Origin of Evolution.... its not about exact dating, its about people and places and concepts.

Its not for me, to start and finnish off evolutionary theory, its evolutionists BIG CHANCE to state what they believe and stand behind it or explain it to readers.

They write way too many one liners, and attacks but never state anything themselves. They are very fearful of saying anything about anything, as their modus operandi is usually just attack the messenger rather than the message.

So lets give them an opportunity ina FREE SPEECH OPEN FORUM, to explain and defend their origins and history.

Its a history thread, a back to the Origins thread.

Its not my thread, its their thread...... good for the goose good for the gander... I might ask them a few questions, if they come out and state something and ask them to prove it or clarify it.

I wont ask any math questions, as they evade math and seemingly dont know math. Not a problem, well keep the science of math, out of the discussion. Its their turn in a two way debate.... they need to learn to state something and then defend something... sort of like a teaching debate school.

So lets start at the beginning of Evolution, was it started solely by Darwin, how and why..or were their past forefathers of the theory of evolution before Darwin. Its a History Thread..

Let the History begin or unfold.... lets give evolutionists a chance, lets hear them out, lets let them tell their side of their story.

The layman reader wants to know from them.... its important, its fundamental, its basic, its the Origin of Evolution.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by AdminPhat, posted 05-05-2017 1:36 PM AdminPhat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Davidjay, posted 05-07-2017 10:56 AM Davidjay has responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


(1)
Message 10 of 21 (807953)
05-07-2017 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Davidjay
05-06-2017 10:35 AM


Re: Open Discussion Needed and Valuable
If evolutionists state that evolution started with Darwins observations and then possible insight into the 'origin of different species' then lets study and research what led him to his theory.

If it started with previous scientists or biologists or observers... let them be stated and lets study their history and why they came up with their theory.

Lets get back to the beginning of the concept of evolution. Not in years, or billions of years... not mathematically but in personages and real people that first developed the idea or came up with the idea.

History is a part of science, true history is scientific and we can surely discuss it as it so needed for either believers or non believers to discern from and make a better choice concerning.

Nothing is more important than discovering the BEGINNING, as all other discussions would stem from this original discussion.

Evolutionists need a chance to participate in this origin of evolution, OR research it and find out about the first believers in thier theory and what it was based on.

Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Davidjay, posted 05-06-2017 10:35 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Davidjay, posted 05-10-2017 9:41 AM Davidjay has responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 11 of 21 (808339)
05-10-2017 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Davidjay
05-07-2017 10:56 AM


Re: Evolutionists propose topic and it gets promoted but ...
Im saying the exact same thing an evolutionist Therebedragons....... stated in His proposed and proomoted thread HERE..... He stated
"Once creationists have had the opportunity to respond and explain their theory, I will use evolutionary theory to analyze the data and describe the patterns in the data. There are plenty more sequences available from Genbank and I can retrieve more sequences from the same groups to examine inter-specific variation and from different groups to examine patterns of intra-specific variation. "

So why cant the same standard be applied to evolutionists giove them a chance to explain their theory and origin and history. Good for the goose, good for the gander. fairness, equality and an honest debate with the same rules applying.

The thread against creationism is called 'Does the creation model fit the facts' or something similiar.

Here it is... http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&t=19439

Let evolutionists have the chance to speak up about their theory, and explain its origins.

Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.

Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Davidjay, posted 05-07-2017 10:56 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Davidjay, posted 05-10-2017 9:50 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 12 of 21 (808340)
05-10-2017 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Davidjay
05-10-2017 9:41 AM


Re: Evolutionists propose topic and it gets promoted but ...
And my proposal was put forward three days before his proposal challenge or invitation was put into words.

Hence possibly using my proposal as his template idea. Yet his was chosen to be promoted. Therefore logically and fairly I would assume my proposed title, which is absolutely primary to the discussion of evolution, should be promoted as a THREAD TOPIC..

IMO

Wahts your decision ?

IHS

David


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Davidjay, posted 05-10-2017 9:41 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Admin, posted 05-10-2017 10:43 AM Davidjay has responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12533
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.8


(2)
Message 13 of 21 (808346)
05-10-2017 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Davidjay
05-10-2017 9:50 AM


Re: Evolutionists propose topic and it gets promoted but ...
Until you demonstrate the ability in existing threads to stay on topic and engage in back-and-forth discussion, none of your thread proposals will be promoted. For example, your thread Debunking the Evolutionary God of 'Selection' is at risk of being dropped into summation mode because you won't discuss the topic.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Davidjay, posted 05-10-2017 9:50 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Davidjay, posted 05-10-2017 10:56 AM Admin has responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 14 of 21 (808351)
05-10-2017 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Admin
05-10-2017 10:43 AM


Re: Evolutionists propose topic and it gets promoted but ...
You mean, I wont agree with creationists. This I usually dont do unless they have spoken a fact or a truth or a law. I always discuss, even in the light of their subjective slurs against me, as I dont spam but hit the topic from different angles until a debate victory is ensured.

As for debunking the god of evolution, I have done that successfully....as can be3 noted THEREIN.

But Yes, you do confirm that Therebedragons got a new proposed topic, via my original topic procedure, if not you would have stated so. Hence your denial of my topic proposals seem to stem ONLY on my disagreement with accepting evolutionary facts and theories as law.

I can understand that, as you are an evolutionist. Not a problem. Your choice and your responsibility as mentioned.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Admin, posted 05-10-2017 10:43 AM Admin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Admin, posted 05-10-2017 11:05 AM Davidjay has responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12533
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 15 of 21 (808356)
05-10-2017 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Davidjay
05-10-2017 10:56 AM


Re: Evolutionists propose topic and it gets promoted but ...
I told you what it would take for your topic proposals to get promoted. I suggest you pay attention of what I wrote instead of making misinterpretations. There's no need to read between the lines, I stated just what I meant. Most of your posts consist of insulting comments about evolutionists, bald declarations with no supporting evidence or argument, followed by absurd declarations of victory. This is a board for serious discussion, and if you can't do that then you'll find your participation becoming more and more constrained.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Davidjay, posted 05-10-2017 10:56 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Davidjay, posted 05-10-2017 11:13 AM Admin has responded

  
1
2Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017