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Author Topic:   Y.E.C. Model: Was there rapid evolution and speciation post flood?
jar
Member
Posts: 29749
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 451 of 518 (823110)
11-06-2017 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 447 by starman
11-06-2017 1:54 AM


Re: most of us are neither utterly ignorant or utterly dishonest
starman writes:

Your opinion of God's people or truth actually doesn't much matter to me...as insulting as you would like to be.

God's people? What a laugh. What you mean is the Christian Cult of Ignorance not God's people.

Also, the reality and facts still exist; there was no Garden of Eden, no Special Creation, no Flood, no Exodus, no Conquest of Canaan and evolution is still a fact and the Theory of Evolution is still the only available explanation and the Earth is old and the Universe is even older and decay rates have not changed and time is the same at the stars as it is here.

It really is that simple.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 447 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:54 AM starman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 455 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:14 PM jar has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19295
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 452 of 518 (823116)
11-06-2017 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 449 by starman
11-06-2017 2:01 AM


Re: Wrong again
Very simple. Your ages are wrong. ...

So you continue to assert, but have yet to substantiate with any evidence. This is just an opinion and easy to ignore in the face of substantial evidence for an old earth.

... Man and most creatures only started to appear as fossilized remains after the flood (or more precisely, the nature change a little time after the flood).

Which is just an ad hoc invention on your part to attempt to accommodate the evidence into your fantasy.

Curiously other animals continue to fossilize from before the KT event and after it -- crocodiles and birds for instance -- and they don't show any remarkable difference in ability to fossilize. Bones are made of the same material, DNA of humans, birds and crocodiles show not remarkably different in a way that would suggest one can fossilize and the other cannot.

Additionally you fail to account for the difference in time for primates, hominids and humans. Fail #9

Your "explanation" is laughable in it's inability to deal with the evidence.

Here is a timeline that is closer to reality than the usual geologic column timeline you are familiar with.

Irrelevant for two reasons: first we don't debate by posting link (you post the information and the evidence for it) and second you completely fail to deal with the information in this thread.

If you want to discuss your fantasy timeline, start a new thread at Proposed New Topics.

Your task is to explain the evidence I have presented, and why the different systems correlate, and to back it up with evidence.

You have failed to do that ... fail #10 ... congratulations you've made it to double digits.

All you are doing is posting gormless drool (on thread after thread) that doesn't even rise to a questionable hypothesis.

You haven't dealt in good faith with the thesis of any thread you have posted on.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 2:01 AM starman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 456 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:17 PM RAZD has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13965
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 453 of 518 (823118)
11-06-2017 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 437 by starman
11-05-2017 4:24 PM


starman writes:

We need a reason to think the forces and laws that govern the atoms that make up cells and determine how things exist on earth was the same, if we intend to build all models on the assumption it was.


But we DO know how evolution used to happen. We know how it happens today, we know how it happened last week, we know how it happened before your fictitious Flood and we know how it happened before your fictitious Creation. You're the one who doesn't know, but apparently you're gullible enough to swallow the lies that creationists tell you.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 437 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 4:24 PM starman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 457 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:18 PM ringo has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19295
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 454 of 518 (823121)
11-06-2017 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 450 by starman
11-06-2017 2:06 AM


the continued failures of starman
You have no empirical evidence. ...

Then you don't know what empirical evidence is. The stump of the "Prometheus" tree is empirical evidence, objective empirical evidence ... it is there and you can touch it, feel it, count the rings.

... You reject history and the record of Scripture ...

Correction: I reject things that are not substantiated, because ... they are not substantiated. If you provide evidence to substantiate it then -- and only then -- will I consider it. Until that time I see no reason to consider it, especially given the amount of multiple documented and scientifically reviewed objective empirical evidence of an old earth.

As for the radio halos, do not offer some thread as support. ...

It is off topic on this thread, and thus it is appropriate to continue this on a thread where it is the topic:

Curiously, that would be Are Uranium Halos the best evidence of (a) an old earth AND (b) constant physics?

Show us how these halos show what you claim they show

Already covered on Are Uranium Halos the best evidence of (a) an old earth AND (b) constant physics?, where it happens to be the topic of the thread.

I think you are just avoiding this issue, just like you have avoided all the other issues on the other threads you have posted on lately.

Little one or two line quips and groundless assertions seems to be all you can manage ...

Providing evidence once again that creationists don't have an argument worth discussing. They always fail to gain any traction against the evidence of reality. These discussions only show how vapid your arguments are to the people reading these threads.

You've got nothing.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 450 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 2:06 AM starman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 458 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:21 PM RAZD has responded

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 455 of 518 (823137)
11-06-2017 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 451 by jar
11-06-2017 7:49 AM


Re: most of us are neither utterly ignorant or utterly dishonest
No garden? You think you know this..how? No flood? What in tarnaton are you talking about? You thought you had evidence for those sick little claims?

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 451 by jar, posted 11-06-2017 7:49 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 460 by jar, posted 11-06-2017 1:33 PM starman has responded

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 456 of 518 (823138)
11-06-2017 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 452 by RAZD
11-06-2017 10:48 AM


Re: Wrong again
Your ages remain wrong and fantasy until you first prove the same past nature that the claims depend and rest on.

As for man not leaving remains...show us that he would have? Oh...wait you are preaching your same state religion again...IF there was one we woulda coulda shoulda fossilized. Gong!
As for timelines you use one you believe I will do the same. Yours are silly and faith based.


My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 452 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2017 10:48 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 459 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2017 1:32 PM starman has responded

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 457 of 518 (823139)
11-06-2017 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 453 by ringo
11-06-2017 10:54 AM


No, you don't know how evolution used to happen! If so, then show us how you know it happened slow and just as it now does?? Let's see the goods.

Paaleeese tell us you are not going to play that religious game of saying 'gee, we must have evolved the same, because the nature was the same'!

Edited by starman, : No reason given.


My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 453 by ringo, posted 11-06-2017 10:54 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by ringo, posted 11-08-2017 2:24 PM starman has responded

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 458 of 518 (823140)
11-06-2017 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 454 by RAZD
11-06-2017 11:12 AM


Re: the continued failures of starman
The stump is evidence of...what!!? That a lots of rings exist? Or..? Spit it out.

If halos are off topic why did YOU bring them up here? You can't post the goods and plead that the reason is that it is off topic. Circular. Ridiculous.


My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 454 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2017 11:12 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 461 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2017 1:41 PM starman has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19295
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 459 of 518 (823143)
11-06-2017 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 456 by starman
11-06-2017 1:17 PM


Re: Wrong again
Your ages remain wrong and fantasy until you first prove the same past nature that the claims depend and rest on.

As for man not leaving remains...show us that he would have? Oh...wait you are preaching your same state religion again...IF there was one we woulda coulda shoulda fossilized. Gong!
As for timelines you use one you believe I will do the same. Yours are silly and faith based.

More evidence void blather and failure to address the issues.

Seems you are stuck in a rut, repeating yourself and not addressing the issues that make your opinions highly questionable.

Repeating failed arguments with no additional support is a violation of forum rules. But it also shows that you have no evidence, your argument quiver is empty.

Thank you for showing forum readers that creationists have nothing to offer.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 456 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:17 PM starman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 468 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 4:23 PM RAZD has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29749
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 460 of 518 (823144)
11-06-2017 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 455 by starman
11-06-2017 1:14 PM


Re: most of us are neither utterly ignorant or utterly dishonest
starman writes:

No garden? You think you know this..how? No flood? What in tarnaton are you talking about? You thought you had evidence for those sick little claims?

No, of course we do not think we have evidence to show there was no Garden of Eden, no Biblical Flood, no "former nature", we know we have the evidence and it is overwhelming.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 455 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:14 PM starman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 469 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 4:24 PM jar has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19295
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 461 of 518 (823145)
11-06-2017 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 458 by starman
11-06-2017 1:21 PM


Re: the continued failures of starman
The stump is evidence of...what!!? ...

The tree was alive when cut down, ...

... That a lots of rings exist? Or..? ...

... so the rings show the age of the tree when it was cut down. As anyone who had actually read the thread would know.

... Spit it out.

That your age fantasy is falsified by the objective empirical evidence provided by the dendrochronologies from 4 different locations that all correlate with one another and with historic events.

All you have tried to counter it with is assertion and ad hoc make believe fantasy, but without a scintilla of evidence.

Fail #11.

If halos are off topic why did YOU bring them up here? You can't post the goods and plead that the reason is that it is off topic. Circular. Ridiculous.

Except that I provided the link to the thread where it is on topic - you're just scared you'll get hammered on another thread for having no argument and having an inability to counter the evidence there.

You are just making flimsy excuses to hide your failures.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:21 PM starman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 470 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 4:28 PM RAZD has responded

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6037
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 462 of 518 (823180)
11-06-2017 8:26 PM


Starman fails
Starman has failed to even try to address the evidence he asked for, and which I provided in Message 432.

Denials are not evidence, and religious beliefs are not evidence no matter how firmly they are held.

In order to make a case for one's beliefs, there must be some rational evidence and so far we see none from Starman.

Perhaps he should try again?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


Replies to this message:
 Message 463 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2017 7:00 AM Coyote has not yet responded
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 Message 471 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 4:29 PM Coyote has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19295
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 463 of 518 (823184)
11-07-2017 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 462 by Coyote
11-06-2017 8:26 PM


Re: Starman fails
Starman has failed to even try to address the evidence he asked for, and which I provided in Message 432.

His posts are excellent examples of why creationism is not science and does not refute science.

Every time he posts he provides an opportunity to show the thread readers how bad his belief based arguments are and how they fail against the scientific evidence based arguments.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 462 by Coyote, posted 11-06-2017 8:26 PM Coyote has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10115
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 464 of 518 (823186)
11-07-2017 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 462 by Coyote
11-06-2017 8:26 PM


Re: Starman fails
In order to make a case for one's beliefs, there must be some rational evidence and so far we see none from Starman.

That's right. In fact, his entire strategy is to claim that there is no such thing as evidence. Space and time are an illusion which confounds our attempts to identify truth using the scientific method. The only reality is Creation Science; knowledge based firmly on Genesis.

Or at least that is the case if you let starman tell it.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 462 by Coyote, posted 11-06-2017 8:26 PM Coyote has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29749
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 465 of 518 (823187)
11-07-2017 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 464 by NoNukes
11-07-2017 9:49 AM


Re: Starman fails
NN writes:

The only reality is Creation Science; knowledge based firmly on Genesis.

Gotta hurt then that the two Creation myths in Genesis are contradictory and mutually exclusive and even describe two different Gods doing the Creating.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 464 by NoNukes, posted 11-07-2017 9:49 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 466 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2017 12:52 PM jar has responded
 Message 474 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 4:34 PM jar has responded

  
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