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Author Topic:   the variety and evolution of reproduction methods over time.
JonF
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Posts: 3992
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 151 of 187 (822537)
10-27-2017 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by Dredge
10-26-2017 11:06 PM


All those can be and have been tested by observing the traces they have left behind. Especially common descent (including the ancestry of humans) , tested both by fossil progression and, independently, genetics.

Bet you are one of those who thinks that observing a past event requires recreating it, amirite?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
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Posts: 29603
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 152 of 187 (822539)
10-27-2017 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by JonF
10-27-2017 9:24 AM


It's so funny how the Christian Cult of Ignorance will never stay on topic or acknowledge when their laughable nonsense is refuted but just try to palm the pea, con the rubes, move the goal posts and deny the reality that everyone saw what they did.

It seems that not only is there no culture of honesty in Creationism, there is no evidence that Creationists even have a clue what honesty or truth or reality is.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
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Posts: 2994
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 153 of 187 (822541)
10-27-2017 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Dredge
10-26-2017 11:29 PM


A better example is a fish heart. It is nothing like the heart of its "descendants" - amphibians and reptiles.

And actually we're talking about the ancestors of modern fish, not modern fish themselves. Only willfully ignorant creationists would ever try to claim that modern fish are completely identical to ancient fish.

And your attempt to move the goal posts is duly noted. You still need to address your claim regarding reptilian hearts.


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dwise1
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Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 154 of 187 (822543)
10-27-2017 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by jar
10-27-2017 10:28 AM


It seems that not only is there no culture of honesty in Creationism, there is no evidence that Creationists even have a clue what honesty or truth or reality is.

That appears to be an integral part of their religion/theology, which not only has no clue what morality is, but actively promotes immoral behavior so long as it serves their god. Completely contrary to standard Christian doctrine.

I would applaud their zealous efforts to promote the growth and spread of atheism except for the fact that they also teach an aberrant form of atheism which does nobody any good.


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RAZD
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From: the other end of the sidewalk
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(3)
Message 155 of 187 (822545)
10-27-2017 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by dwise1
10-27-2017 11:07 AM


I would applaud their zealous efforts to promote the growth and spread of atheism except for the fact that they also teach an aberrant form of atheism which does nobody any good.

Just remember that nobody is completely useless ...

... they can always serve as a bad example.


we are limited in our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ringo
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Posts: 13864
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 156 of 187 (822547)
10-27-2017 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Dredge
10-26-2017 10:56 PM


Dredge writes:

This is a very poor analogy. There are thousands of eye-witness accounts of Napoleon's existence. How many eye-witnesses accounts are there that describe mammals evolving from a reptile?


Eyewitness evidence is the worst there is. There is far more physical evidence for transitionals than there is for Napoleon.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Dredge, posted 10-26-2017 10:56 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 13864
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 157 of 187 (822549)
10-27-2017 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by Dredge
10-26-2017 11:20 PM


Dredge writes:

Oh, I get it ... an honest creationist is one who gets converted to evolution and the creationists who don't are all dishonest.


Well, honest inquiry is more likely to get you to the truth than repeating inane nonsense.
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dwise1
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Posts: 2994
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(3)
Message 158 of 187 (822558)
10-27-2017 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by RAZD
10-27-2017 11:21 AM


Just remember that nobody is completely useless ...

... they can always serve as a bad example.

Throughout school starting in early elementary school, I seemed to always serve as the bad example. "Everybody look at David and see what he's doing. Don't do that!"

But seriously, I don't want to see people becoming atheists just because their religion taught them to become atheists -- eg, "If the earth is more than 10,000 years old, then Scripture has no meaning and you should throw your Bible on the trash heap and become a hedonistic atheist who runs down the street naked and eats babies for lunch." Rather, I want to see people becoming atheists because they have outgrown the need for gods. Religions' false teachings about atheism paints it as a legalistic loophole for them to escape responsibility and do whatever they want to do. Rather, atheism requires that you do take personal responsibility for your actions; it's religion, especially fundamentalist Christianity, that enables you to escape responsibility for your actions.


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dwise1
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Posts: 2994
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 159 of 187 (822589)
10-28-2017 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Dredge
10-21-2017 7:46 PM


Sorry, but I just came across this particular piece of inanity again.

Sorry, "Slowly over long periods of time" doesn't explain anything. This is the Darwinist's equivalent of the Creationists' "God did it."

Absolutely false equivalency. To start with, "God did it" does not even attempt to answer any questions nor to discover what happened or how. It is the ultimate cop-out. To illustrate that, the next time you pull that crap of demanding of us complete knowledge of every single step in which some feature evolved, we will demand of you the exact same level of complete knowledge of precisely how it was created. Your just copping out with "God did it" will not even begin to suffice. For that matter, "God did it" would also support evolution; we're just getting deeper into how it happened.

"Slowly over long periods of time" refers small changes over many generations. We have observed small changes occurring within a few generations, so that is certainly no fantasy. And the thing about a generation is that it takes a particular length of time -- let's call that t measured in years. So if something requires 100 generations to evolve, then it would have taken it 100×t years. If t is one year, then it would have taken 100 years. If t is 4 years, then it would have taken 400 years. If t is 20 years (arguably the length of a human generation), then it would have taken 2,000 years. Therefore long periods of time is a basic necessity in evolution, not a cop-out. Despite all the creationist lies you've devoured and regurgitated here, it doesn't happen overnight -- nobody but an ignorant or deliberately dishonest creationist would even begin to think that it's supposed to happen overnight.

Please, learn something about evolution!

Any mammary system is very complex, but you seem happy to believe that such a system evolved by sheer luck.

Again, that's just yet another idiotic creationist lie. While new changes can be random (eg, the mutation of lysozyme into alpha-lactalbumin), it's natural selection which selects which new changes stay and which go away. Natural selection is the opposite of "sheer luck."

Please, learn something about evolution!

This is akin to believing a mammary system could evolve in a human male.

Are you really that stupid? Besides the fact that your wording shows a complete ignorance of evolution (ie, we inherit our mammary system from ancestors who evolved it long before primates let alone humans), you overlook the very simple and obvious fact that human males do possess a mammary system! It doesn't develop during puberty because our hormones are not right for it, but it's there and it will develop if you mess around with our hormones (just how do you think that transsexuals are able to grow breasts?). And some men do develop breast cancer.

How could you be so stupid? Please, learn something about reality!

To quote the Organians, "The mere presence of beings like yourselves is intensely painful to us." Remember, there is a cure for ignorance, but you must want it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Dredge, posted 10-21-2017 7:46 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
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Pressie
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Posts: 1824
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 160 of 187 (822827)
11-02-2017 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by Dredge
10-26-2017 11:06 PM


The theory that all life on earth evolved from unicellular organisms is untestable.
Nope. The opposite. Your statement is simply untrue. The oldest fossils are those of unicellular, prokaryotic organisms. Tested. Done. Geology. In SA, WA and Greenland.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
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Posts: 29603
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 161 of 187 (822830)
11-02-2017 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Pressie
11-02-2017 8:12 AM


There is no theory that all life on earth evolved from unicellular organisms anyway so that is simply another indication of ignorance.

The fact that all life on earth evolved from unicellular organisms is not a theory but a conclusion based on all of the evidence ever found.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Pressie, posted 11-02-2017 8:12 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Pressie, posted 11-03-2017 9:04 AM jar has responded
 Message 169 by Dredge, posted 11-09-2017 2:53 AM jar has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1824
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 162 of 187 (822888)
11-03-2017 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by jar
11-02-2017 8:56 AM


Now I'm waiting for that person (Dredge) to start going with "The Geologic Column is a theory"...

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by jar, posted 11-02-2017 8:56 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 171 by Dredge, posted 11-09-2017 2:57 AM Pressie has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29603
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 163 of 187 (822904)
11-03-2017 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by Pressie
11-03-2017 9:04 AM


Pressie writes:

Now I'm waiting for that person (Dredge) to start going with "The Geologic Column is a theory"...

It's just speculation since no one saw the layers being built.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Dredge
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Posts: 632
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 164 of 187 (823307)
11-09-2017 2:30 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by dwise1
10-26-2017 11:43 PM


dwise1 writes:

an honest creationist is one who actually looks at the evidence.

Well, I have looked at the evidence and come to the conclusion that evolution is junk science. What could he wrong with me? Why can't I see the truth?

Have you ever tested a creationist claim?

There has been a massive experiment going on for thousands of years - humans trying everything they know to push the limits animals and plants evolution - no one has yet managed to produce a creature that was essentially different from the original. This experiment provides evidence that creatures cannot reproduce beyond their genetic limitations, which is what is Genesis "kinds" alludes to. This represents one test of creation that it has so far passed.

When are you ever going to wake up and stop doing such stupid things?

I don't think I'll ever wake up to the truth of evolution - I guess I'm just too stupid to ever rise above creationism.

Is it true that one needs to consume LSD in order to "get" ToE? Maybe that's the answer.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Dredge
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Posts: 632
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 165 of 187 (823308)
11-09-2017 2:33 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by dwise1
10-26-2017 11:50 PM


... a genuinely funny post.
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