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Author Topic:   Exploring (mostly Cultural) Marxism in today's Left
Faith
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Posts: 26275
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1 of 381 (812775)
06-20-2017 7:53 AM


I would like to have a thread to explore the specifics of Marxism, including its documents such as The Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital as those familiar with them may see fit to explain them. I know Marxism by its cultural effects in our time and through some Marxist writings, mostly Cultural Marxism [Marcuse, Adorno, Horkheimer, the Frankfurt School], but I find it very hard to get through the official writings. They are abstract to the point of putting me to sleep for one thing and they claim to be analyses that to my mind aren't analyses at all, just pernicious attempts to destroy civilization.

The idea, for instance, that all history is about "class struggles" strikes me as an absurd and pernicious reductionism that creates division and conflict between segments of society that don't need to exist. It explains why those of a Leftist persuasion, or even Liberal these days, seem to spend all their time finding something to accuse a conservative of along the lines of being an Oppressor of a victim class defined as the Oppressed. "White privilege" is clearly a Marxism-derived category designed to identify the white race as Oppressor. (It's blatant racism but according to Marxism the term racism can't apply to whites, who are always the racists, never its victims. (However, I'm glad to see that the UK has a law that recognizes racism against whites Message 741) Once you've got an Oppressor class you can work to blame all social ills on it and to so denigrate everything about your chosen class no member of that class can say anything without being slapped down by all the Marxist arsenal of pejorative terms.

Today Islam is defined as an Oppressed Class. Nobody can say anything about the true evil teachings of Islam without being called an "Islamophobe" which is a pejorative that labels the person as morally deficient to such a degree that you can shut down their ability to give an opinion. Freedom of speech is ALWAYS denied by Marxist/Leftist thought. Whatever is outside the Politically Correct category as defined by the Left is the Enemy, to which all kinds of other pejorative labels can be attached.

I consider all this to be sheer evil but it's nevertheless been incorporated into our educational system so that we have generation after generation that has been poisoned by this kind of thinking, coming into positions of social influence that build on creating villains to blame for everything, promoting divisiveness to the point of the extreme political polarity we are seeing today and in general destroying all civilized society.

Marx has been shown to have been an active Satanist too, which yhou can discover in the book Marx and Satan by Richard Wurmbrand, a Rumanian Jewish Christian pastor who was imprisoned under Communism for his Christian beliefs for fourteen years. The observable social effects of Marxism /Communism /Leftism ought to be enough to reveal the evil ideology it is, promoting every kind of oppression of good people, imprisonment and murder, but it's no surprise to me that there's also a connection with the Evil One.

The support of Islam these days has even managed to eclipse another pet Oppressed Class of recent times, women. Islam persecutes women but this is no longer held against Islam, in fact you'll even find defenders of their violent mistreatment of women on the Left these days. Once you've got your victim class it can do no wrong, but its critics can be treated as less than human. Marxism is a pernicious form of ideological categorical thinking that labels p;eople as enemies rather than addressing ideas. Hence the level of vitriol in this current American political scene where violence has become acceptable against the Marxist-designated Oppressor.

I can't get through The Communist Manifesto but here's A SUMMARY:

It argues that class struggles, or the exploitation of one class by another, are the motivating force behind all historical developments. Class relationships are defined by an era's means of production. However, eventually these relationships cease to be compatible with the developing forces of production. At this point, a revolution occurs and a new class emerges as the ruling one. This process represents the "march of history" as driven by larger economic forces.

I think this excuse for an "analysis" is responsible for all the ills I mention above.

I'm not sure how to approach this subject so I'm just throwing it out to see what kind of response it gets. As I said I can't really read the main documents but maybe I can learn more about them in whatever discussion comes about, but I know I do know enough already that my hatred can only get deeper with greater knowledge. I know it's going to be a bumpy ride, but I'm hoping participants will try to be civil and thoughtful and contribute meaningful thoughts.

6/22 ABE: Oh well, the thread has gone to EvC Perdition faster than I expected. Thought I'd highlight a few posts where I've tried to keep the theme up: Message 11 Message 37 Message 50

Message 54 Critical Theory
Message 185 video about Cultural Marxism
Message 207 Another video
Message 220 Bill Lind essay on Political Correctness

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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jar
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Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 2 of 381 (812780)
06-20-2017 8:34 AM


A great source for the actual information on Marxism
A great source for the actual information on Marxism can be found at What is Marxism which provides a different view than the caricature of Marxism that is the current Republican Conservative fantasy.

Edited by jar, : fix url

Edited by jar, : fix the fix


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Faith
Member
Posts: 26275
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3 of 381 (812782)
06-20-2017 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by jar
06-20-2017 8:34 AM


Re: A great source for the actual information on Marxism
I provided a quote from my link and discussed it, please provide one from yours, or a summary in your own words. Thanks.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by jar, posted 06-20-2017 8:34 AM jar has responded

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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 4 of 381 (812786)
06-20-2017 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Faith
06-20-2017 8:36 AM


Re: A great source for the actual information on Marxism
I did provide a summary of the content at the link (literally hundreds of pages and articles there).

The summary is "The link I provided shows a different view of Marxism than the caricature being marketed by Faith and the US conservative Republicans".


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Faith
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Posts: 26275
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 381 (812796)
06-20-2017 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by jar
06-20-2017 8:40 AM


Re: A great source for the actual information on Marxism
That's just a dodge and against the rules. You need to put some content up on the board.
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JonF
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Posts: 3960
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


(3)
Message 6 of 381 (812806)
06-20-2017 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
06-20-2017 9:17 AM


Re: A great source for the actual information on Marxism
Apply that thought to the other threads.
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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 7 of 381 (812808)
06-20-2017 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Faith
06-20-2017 8:36 AM


Re: A great source for the actual information on Marxism
to help keep Faith's panties from getting in a wad...

quote:
The theories of Marxism provide the thinking worker with such an understanding--a thread which is capable of leading him through the confused labyrinth of events, of the complex processes of society, of economics, of the struggle of classes, of politics. Armed with this sword the worker can cut the Gordian knot which binds him to the mightiest obstacle in the way of the advancement of himself and his class--ignorance.

source

The Theories of Marxism like the Theory of Evolution and Germ Theory are tools to help thinking individuals overcome ignorance and advance towards a better life for all.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Chiroptera
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Posts: 6393
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 8 of 381 (812809)
06-20-2017 10:32 AM


Leszek Kołakowski
I apologize if this is getting off the intended topic.

A very interesting work on the history of Marxism as a philosophy is Main Currents of Marxism: Its Origins, Growth and Dissolution by Leszek Kołakowski.

Kołakowski was a Polish dissident. He was trained as a philosopher under the communist regime, but became disaffected and emigrated to the West.

Very brief summary of the book (basically what I got out of it):

In the 19th century Marxism was a very intellectually active philosophic activity, with several very different strands in various countries at various times.

Lenin, though, was pretty humorless and unimaginative, and using his prestige as the only (at the time) successful leader of a Marxist revolution and the resources at his command as the leader of a nation, he managed to largely marginalize and eliminate all the different schools of though except his relatively dull and uninteresting one.

It is a very interesting work if you are fascinated by the history of ideas like I am.

A couple of drawbacks: he doesn't talk about Maoism or other forms of communism since his own experience was with the European schools. Also, he wrote the book in the 1970s, so there isn't anything about Marxism after the collapse of the USSR.

One warning if anyone wants to try to read it: the first chapter is a bit of a slog. To put Marxism in the context of European philosophy, he gives a summary of the history of European philosophy starting with Plato. It gets pretty deep into metaphysics (he was trained as a philosopher, after all!) and I had a lot of trouble following a lot of it. But I found the rest of the book worth it. It was this book that, more than anything, pointed out to me that although I call myself a socialist, I am definitely not a Marxist.

Your mileage may vary, though.


Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. – Billy Bragg

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Taq
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Posts: 7139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 9 of 381 (812815)
06-20-2017 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
06-20-2017 7:53 AM


Faith writes:

The idea, for instance, that all history is about "class struggles" strikes me as an absurd and pernicious reductionism that creates division and conflict between segments of society that don't need to exist.

One of the most pervasive uses of class warfare is seen in the Republican party where they are continually moaning about how they are being assailed by leftists and urbanites.


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jar
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Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 10 of 381 (812816)
06-20-2017 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Chiroptera
06-20-2017 10:32 AM


Re: Leszek Kołakowski
A Marxist philosopher and writer whose style is far more approachable and readable IMHO is Leon Trotsky. His writings have been collected at Collected Writings of Leon Trotsky.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Faith
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Posts: 26275
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 11 of 381 (812817)
06-20-2017 11:24 AM


The Motivational Effect of Ideology
I remembered this quote from a few days ago when I looked up the gulag. This is Solzhenitsyn on the subject of ideology as what justifies imposing a point of view on others:

Ideology – that is what gives evildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes.... That was how the agents of the Inquisition fortified their wills: by invoking Christianity; the conquerors of foreign lands, by extolling the grandeur of their Motherland; the colonizers, by civilization; the Nazis, by race; and the Jacobins (early and late), by equality, brotherhood, and the happiness of future generations.... Without evildoers there would have been no Archipelago."

And Islam is an ideology that inspires the murder of nonMuslims as service to Allah. Marxism is the ideology that sent Solzhenitsyn to the gulag archipelago, and justified all the murders of Stalin and Mao.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Phat
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Posts: 9741
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 12 of 381 (812818)
06-20-2017 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
06-20-2017 10:28 AM


Re: A great source for the actual information on Marxism
Marx and Satan writes:

The late Reverend Richard Wurmbrand spent 14 years as a prisoner of the Communist government in Romania, where he was persecuted for his faith in Jesus Christ. His experience led him to spend further years researching Karl Marx and the Communist doctrines he developed. While Communism portrays itself as a noble endeavor for the good of mankind and claims an Atheistic view, Wurmbrand exposes its true roots, revealing that Karl Marx and the fathers of the modern Communist/Socialist movements were inspired by the powers of darkness.
By examining the confessions, writings, and poetry of Marx and his followers, the author demonstrates how the "prince of darkness" gave these men the "sword" by which they have terrorized the nations. Wurmbrand proves that this movement is not simply the work of greedy men, hungry for wealth and power, but is "after the working of Satan" with the intent of destroying mankind.

Looks like an interesting point of view. I doubt Wurmbrand was simply part of the materialistic class selling a book. However, your sourc also provides some insight:
What Is Marxism writes:

The basic corner-stones of Materialism are as follows:

(a) The material world, known to us by our senses and explored by science, is real. The development of the world is due to its own natural laws, without any recourse to the supernatural.

(b) There is only one world, the material one. Thought is a product of matter (the brain) without which there can be no separate ideas. Therefore minds or ideas cannot exist in isolation apart from matter. General ideas are only reflections of the material world. “To me,” wrote Marx, “the idea is nothing else than the material world reflected in the human mind, and translated into forms of thought.” And further, “Social being determines consciousness”.

Thus is gets right back to our evolving argument on whether the supernatural is separate from the material world.

Obviously, there is no evidence. It would follow, however, that if satan actually can influence humans, Marx would have been a good candidate. Of course, the same argument could be applied to Donald Trump.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

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Faith
Member
Posts: 26275
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 13 of 381 (812819)
06-20-2017 11:25 AM


The Motivational Effect of Ideology
I remembered this quote from a few days ago when I looked up the gulag. This is Solzhenitsyn on the subject of ideology as what justifies imposing a point of view on others:

Ideology – that is what gives evildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes.... That was how the agents of the Inquisition fortified their wills: by invoking Christianity; the conquerors of foreign lands, by extolling the grandeur of their Motherland; the colonizers, by civilization; the Nazis, by race; and the Jacobins (early and late), by equality, brotherhood, and the happiness of future generations.... Without evildoers there would have been no Archipelago."

And Islam is an ideology that inspires the murder of nonMuslims as service to Allah. Marxism is the ideology that sent Solzhenitsyn to the gulag archipelago, and justified all the murders of Stalin and Mao.


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ringo
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Posts: 13622
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(4)
Message 14 of 381 (812826)
06-20-2017 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
06-20-2017 7:53 AM


Faith writes:

I can't get through The Communist Manifesto....


Then you're thoroughly unqualified to discuss it. maybe you should change the topic title to, "Rumours I Have Heard About Marxism."
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JonF
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Posts: 3960
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 15 of 381 (812832)
06-20-2017 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
06-20-2017 11:25 AM


Re: The Motivational Effect of Ideology
The USSR was never Marxist.
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