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Author Topic:   Exploring (mostly Cultural) Marxism in today's Left
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 181 of 381 (813303)
06-25-2017 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Riggamortis
06-25-2017 10:52 PM


Re: Pastor Wurmbrand
That whitewashed list has already been posted here. You need to read some of the quotes I've posted from the book Marx and Satan
Message 126 gives Wurmbrand's description of Satanic practices, which I knew about years ago.
In other posts I quote some of Marx's friends whose writings have satanic themes. Marx himself wrote poetry with satanic themes when he was a teenager but I haven't quoted any of that yet.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Riggamortis, posted 06-25-2017 10:52 PM Riggamortis has replied

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 182 of 381 (813304)
06-25-2017 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Faith
06-25-2017 9:38 PM


Re: Pastor Wurmbrand
quote:
This kind of rude abusive attitude makes me often regret ever posting anything here. Pastor Wurmbrand was no "nutjob."
He tries to use hair style as "evidence" of Satanism. And even gets that wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 9:38 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 183 of 381 (813306)
06-26-2017 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Faith
06-25-2017 11:12 PM


More from Marx and Satan: Hatred of Christianity
Wurmbrand keeps asking, why, if Marxism/Communism is about an economic system and improving the lot of the proletariat, does it spend so much effort on abusing Christian believers. What's the connection? There isn't any, what it demonstrates is that hatred of God is more important than any merely human objective, and that's what makes it Satanic.
From pp 46-7, Marx and Satan:
Religious Obscenities
It might be in some sense "logical" that Communists would arrest priests and pastors as counterrevolutionaries. But why were priests compelled by the Marxists in the Romanian prison of Piteshti to say Mass over excrement and urine? Why were Christians tortured into taking Communion with these as the elements? Why such an obscene mockery of religion? Why did the Romanian Orthodox priest Roman Braga, whom I knew personally when he was a prisoner of the Communists, and who presently resides in the U.S.A., have his teeth knocked out one by one with an iron rod in order to make him blaspheme?
The Communists had explained to him and others: "If we kill you Christians, you go to heaven. But we don't want you to be crowned martyrs. You should curse God first and then go to hell."
In the prison of Piteshti the Communists would force a very religious prisoner to be "baptized" daily by putting his head into the barrel in which his fellowsufferers had fulfilled their necessities, meanwhile obliging the other prisoners to sing the baptismal service.
A theology student was forced to dress in white sheets (in imitation of Christ's robe), and a phallus made out of soap was hung around his neck with a string. Christians were beaten to insanity to force them to kneel before such a mocking image of Christ. After they had kissed the soap, they had to recite part of the liturgy.
Some prisoners were compelled to take off their trousers and sit with their naked bottoms on open Bibles.
Such blasphemous practices were perpetrated for at least two years with the full knowledge of the Party's top leadership. What have such indignities to do with socialism and the well-being of the proletariat? Were their anticapitalist slogans not merely pretexts for organizing Satanic blasphemies and orgies?
Marxists are supposed to be atheists who believe in neither heaven nor hell. In these extreme circumstances, Marxism has lifted its atheistic mask to reveal its true face, the face of Satanism.
Communist persecution of religion might have a human explanation, but the fury of such perverse persecution can only be Satanic.
In Romanian prisons and in the Soviet Union as well, nuns who would not deny their faith were raped anally, and Baptist girls had oral sex forced on them.
47
Many prisoners who were so treated died as martyrs, but the Communists were not satisfied with this. Using Luciferian techniques, they made martyrs die blaspheming because of the delirium provoked by torture.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 11:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 184 of 381 (813313)
06-26-2017 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by Faith
06-25-2017 9:38 PM


Re: Pastor Wurmbrand
Faith writes:
The idea that Satanists would go to heaven before Christians is also indefensible. Satanists wouldn't want to be in heaven since they hate God and wouldn't want to be in His presence, or anywhere His will is obeyed, or anywhere sin isn't committed.
Of course it is defensible since what you and the nutjob pastor are marketing are simply falsehoods and misrepresentation both from the Biblical perspective and reality.
You and the nutjob are simply posting lies about the Biblical Character Satan and about Satanism.
I provided you a link to the reality of Satanism so you can even check yourself and learn the truth instead of simply believing a nutjob.
BUT nothing in the nutjob's book is relevant to the topic.
The topic is "An Exploration of Marxism in today's Leftism" and so far you have offered NOTHING relevant to that topic.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 185 of 381 (813316)
06-26-2017 7:37 AM


Cultural Marxism, Critical theory, PC, Multiculturalism, Islamophobia etc
It's seven and a half minutes which is probably too much for many here but this video is a really good condensed presentation of what Cultural Marxism is. The opening statement makes it clear that it's the application of Critical Theory, which was discussed earlier on the thread, and intrinsic to today's Leftist politics.
It includes an explanation of why the epithet "Islamophobia" is Marxist, which was denied on the thread. I'm glad to see it includes a criticism of the utterly destructive work of Theodor Adorno who is usually not mentioned in this connection, but his attack on western civilization has been very influential, and I believe it should be called satanic.
Political Correctness is the term for the popular tool of intimidation used by the Cultural Marxist Left to enforce this program of destruction of everything good, consisting of the epithets racist, sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic and so on, intended to suppress all dissenting views.
(I believe the west has come under these influences because we have abandoned Christianity and incurred God's judgment, but that's my view, not the video's.)
.
.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 186 of 381 (813317)
06-26-2017 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Faith
06-26-2017 7:37 AM


Re: Cultural Marxism, Critical theory, PC, Multiculturalism, Islamophobia etc
Faith writes:
I believe the west has come under these influences because we have abandoned Christianity and incurred God's judgment, but that's my view, not the video's
But that too is simply a false statement and misrepresentation of reality and irrelevant to the topic under discussion.
So far Faith all you have presented are irrelevancies and falsehoods.
Give us some evidence of any Marxist based factors in today's US political landscape.
Not your imaginary cultural Marxism whining but an actual example.
Stop saying really stupid thing like "Political Correctness is the term for the popular tool of intimidation used by the Cultural Marxist Left to enforce this program of destruction of everything good, consisting of the epithets racist, sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic and so on, intended to suppress all dissenting views. " since it is patently obvious that no one is suppressing disenting news although il Donald has said he would try to do so.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 187 of 381 (813318)
06-26-2017 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Chiroptera
06-20-2017 10:32 AM


Re: Leszek Kołakowski
Chioptera writes:
A very interesting work on the history of Marxism as a philosophy is Main Currents of Marxism: Its Origins, Growth and Dissolution by Leszek Kołakowski.
I started to read this book and it is informative. I can see Faiths arguments concerning satanic influence within our world today, though I see as much of the devil in the details within the conservatives as i do the liberals.
I wouldn't go so far as to label the founder of Voice Of The Martyrs international ministry as a nutjob. He no doubt had a traumatic experience and quite rightly thinks ill of communism in general.
I don't believe that every Biblical Literalist is an automatic huckster or charlatan.
Much of the argument delves into our EvC arguments concerning God, Satan, and Original Sin.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 188 of 381 (813319)
06-26-2017 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by jar
06-26-2017 7:50 AM


Re: Cultural Marxism, Critical theory, PC, Multiculturalism, Islamophobia etc
jar writes:
Give us some evidence of any Marxist based factors in today's US political landscape.
If anything, we have too little. My Union knows.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

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 Message 186 by jar, posted 06-26-2017 7:50 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 189 of 381 (813320)
06-26-2017 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Faith
06-25-2017 11:12 PM


Re: Pastor Wurmbrand
This thread is an exploration of Marxism in today's leftism. I gave you my modern leftist view that blends elements of communism with capitalism. I don't know what any of this other drivel has to do with the main topic. Are you claiming that modern leftism is based on satanic practices that allegedly occurred 150 years ago? Or did you just want to rant about Marx being a satanist?
For arguments sake, Marx was an evil satanist. So what?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 11:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Faith, posted 06-26-2017 10:46 AM Riggamortis has replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


(1)
Message 190 of 381 (813321)
06-26-2017 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Faith
06-26-2017 7:37 AM


Wait, what?
quote:
Political Correctness is the term for the popular tool of intimidation used by the Cultural Marxist Left to enforce this program of destruction of everything good, consisting of the epithets racist, sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic and so on, intended to suppress all dissenting views.
I can't help but read this as "destroying everything good, like racism, sexism, homophobia etc" 😂

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 Message 185 by Faith, posted 06-26-2017 7:37 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 191 of 381 (813322)
06-26-2017 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Phat
06-26-2017 7:55 AM


Re: Leszek Koakowski
I'm not particularly interested in defending conservatism on this thread, though I will say that in general it's a HUMAN way of thinking and Marxism is not.
The book Chiroptera recommended, by Kolakowski, is a repudiation of orthodox or classical Marxism in favor of Cultural Marxism, but Cultural Marxism, which is what the video I posted is about, is every bit as destructive.
There is nothing good about Marxism. What people think is good about it could be much better pursued on the basis of the principles of Christianity, and we should be trying to get back to that. That certainly includes taking care of the workers, and it certainly means a concern for humanity rather than the class hatred Marxism promotes.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 192 of 381 (813326)
06-26-2017 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by Riggamortis
06-26-2017 7:58 AM


What Marxism means
This thread is an exploration of Marxism in today's leftism. I gave you my modern leftist view that blends elements of communism with capitalism.
I wasn't really able to deal with your post because it focuses on economics which is not really what I'm trying to get at. My concern is what could be called Marxism's "critique" of culture, which is really the dismantling of culture, a destructive attack on culture. This critique is basically Postmodernism, another name for Marxist Critical Theory, which has taken away the idea of absolute truth and moral standards and relativized us to the point that we hardly have any sense any more of truth or moral standards and the culture is indeed falling apart.
I don't know what any of this other drivel has to do with the main topic.
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the concept of Cultural Marxism?
Are you claiming that modern leftism is based on satanic practices that allegedly occurred 150 years ago? Or did you just want to rant about Marx being a satanist? '
For arguments sake, Marx was an evil satanist. So what?
I hadn't read the book in years and had forgotten what it said. Rereading it now has, yes, brought me to consider that there is something basically satanic about Marxism itself.
The particular practices of the Satanic church are less important than the active love of Satan and hatred of God as presented in the Bible, as expressed in the writings of many of Marx's friends and later leaders of Communist regimes (a great many of them started out serious Christians: both Marx and Engels but later also Stalin, and others I've forgotten).
Such a frame of mind would certainly have influenced such a document as The Communist Manifesto although of course the influence would not have been overtly expressed. If your desire is to ruin the world, as Marx is quoted to have said at one point, if you hate most of the human race, which I've also quoted of Marx but also Engels (including hatred of Jews, Slavs, Russians, blacks and British among others, including the proletariat whose wellbeing they were supposedly championing), if you think Satan represents everything good and God represents everything bad, (if you think love of neighbor and enemy is bad but getting revenge is good) then how could the theory they developed be anything but satanic? The devil knows how to make evil sound good, he's very successful at seducing the human race, having been working at it since his first great success in Eden.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Riggamortis, posted 06-26-2017 7:58 AM Riggamortis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Riggamortis, posted 06-26-2017 10:59 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 193 of 381 (813329)
06-26-2017 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by caffeine
06-20-2017 4:09 PM


Re: Chapter One
caffeine writes:
(didn't listen far, but I'm not filled with confidence in the narrator given that he mispronounced Engels' first name).
When we talk about Paris, we don't pronounce it, "Pa-REE." When speaking English, I don't think we're obligated to fake a French accent or a German accent. I think "FREED-rick" is a perfectly acceptable pronunciation.
(Though it does grate on me when a certain German philosopher's name is pronounced "NEET-shee".)

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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 194 of 381 (813330)
06-26-2017 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by Faith
06-25-2017 9:38 PM


Re: Pastor Wurmbrand
Faith writes:
Pastor Wurmbrand was no "nutjob."
I've corresponded with Wurmbrand. I think he was sincere. I wouldn't call him a "nutjob" but he definitely had a paranoia about communism. Like many people, he confused communism with the Soviet system - which has more to do with endemic Russian paranoia than with Marx. Tsarist Russia was the same and post-Soviet Russia is the same.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 9:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(1)
Message 195 of 381 (813331)
06-26-2017 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Faith
06-25-2017 6:22 AM


Re: Violence inherent in Marxism itself
When someone who does not believe in God refers to Satan in a poem, they're probably doing so with a different intent than someone who believes that Satan is a really existing thing.
I don't intend to waste much time on discussing whether various long dead people were only pretending to be atheists as part of a secret Satanic plot, but I am suspicious of Wurmbrand's scholarship after reading this:
Marx writes in The Communist Manifesto:
The Communists despise making a secret of their opinions and intentions. They openly declare that their aims can be reached only through the violent overthrow of the whole existing social structure. - There is only one method to shorten the murderous pains of death of the old society, the bloody birth pangs of the new society; only one method to simplify and concentrate them, that is revolutionary terrorism.
I just reread the Communist manifesto for this thread; so I could see that this is clearly not a quote from that book. I thought at first it might be a made up quote; and in a sense it is. Usually when you have a quote with a (...) in the middle, it just means you've cut something out of the middle of a quote to save space, or because it wasn't relevant. In this case, however, what he's done is take a quote from the Communist Manifesto, and then after the ellipse follow with a quote from an editorial in the Neue Rheinische Zeitung written a year afterwards.
To put the latter quote in context, the editorial was written during the revolutions of 1848 - a few days after the bombardment and capture of Vienna. The imperial government was at that time executing the leaders of a democratic revolution; having just successfully besieged its own capital. The second quote is not, as it appears, a full sentence. The full sentence is a follows (the 'June and October events' refer to the violent suppression of an uprising in Paris and the bombardment of Vienna, respectively).
quote:
The purposeless massacres perpetrated since the June and October events, the tedious offering of sacrifices since February and March, the very cannibalism of the counterrevolution will convince the nations that there is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society and the bloody birth throes of the new society can be shortened, simplified and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terror.
Now, I'm not trying to defend violent revolution here; but if you want to understand what someone said; you should read what they said - not a dishonest smear piece.
And with that intention I'll get round to Chapter 2 soon!

This message is a reply to:
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