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Author Topic:   Quote Mining, false witness for the gullible and willfully ignorant
LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 863
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 16 of 49 (814394)
07-09-2017 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by marc9000
07-08-2017 10:48 PM


Just to reiterate
3 of the 4 saw Democrats came much closer than Hillary came to Trump.

Only the Georgia seat saw a margin similar to the Presidential election margin. But I never thought the Cobb County seat would even be remotely competitive. The district was as safe as safe gets and I still have to reconsider everything I thought I knew now that this seat somehow managed to become competitive. Democrats never had a clue that this seat was anything but fundamentally overwhelmingly Republican. Gingrich resigned a few days after the 71% win in November 1998 and Johnny Isackson won over 70%. Tom Price always won with about 70%

Democrats never thought of having any chance in Cobb County even in 2006 or 2008( not at all) even with the 50 state strategy to target almost all 435 districts just incase a GOP scandal might give a temporary pick up opportunity (which the Republican congressmen in 2006 and 2008 ironically managed to offer an endless supply of )

2nd edit - text hidden.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Guess.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Hide.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by marc9000, posted 07-08-2017 10:48 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5904
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 17 of 49 (814395)
07-09-2017 12:49 AM


Topic?
Back to the topic?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9727
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 18 of 49 (814396)
07-09-2017 2:07 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by RAZD
07-08-2017 8:50 PM


Re: Trump made calculated comments about Mexicans and it was deliberately sweeping.
She never had high ground.

Okay... I believe my comment said all "possible" moral high ground.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by RAZD, posted 07-08-2017 8:50 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9727
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 19 of 49 (814397)
07-09-2017 2:12 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by marc9000
07-08-2017 10:48 PM


Re: It's a good laugh
Today, the 14th amendment is being quote mined to attempt to grant illegal immigrants constitutional rights

If this is your best example, then you are just wing-nutting rather than making a point. A complete reading of Supreme Court case law on the 14th amendment easily settles the issue of who is quote mining, and who knows that they are talking about. Hint. The current interpretation of the 14th amendment was not invented by liberals.

But of course, you claim to have large numbers of examples. Rather than typing long screeds full of invective and short on examples, how about listing about three solid examples and then sticking around for some pro/con discussion.

Or continue to bluster, and pontificate about what you don't remember seeing on ABC news as is your normal mode of operation.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by marc9000, posted 07-08-2017 10:48 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 07-09-2017 6:49 AM NoNukes has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18790
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


(5)
Message 20 of 49 (814399)
07-09-2017 6:00 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by marc9000
07-08-2017 10:48 PM


Re: It's a good laugh
Certainly you found some parts of it funnier than others, right? How about this line, from that link;

quote:
They have tried to make quote mining a pejorative term, but the neologism has yet to be recognized by major dictionaries.

That was a real knee-slapper, wasn't it?

It was marc, in fact it was that totally logic free statement uttered as if it were the death toll on the term that really set me howling ... with laughter. The dictionaries don't define every two word combination.

Probably the biggest quote mine in U.S. history happened about 70 years ago, when the U.S. Supreme Court took a quote mine from a Thomas Jefferson letter to a religious denomination that was intended to agree with them concerning the importance of religious liberty. The "separation of church and state" quote mine was used to change/lessen traditional Judeo Christian involvement in government. The phrase was taken completely out of the context it was intended for well over a hundred years earlier.

And yet the context of his quote supports the decision made. If you disagree then post the letter and show it. Then we can howl ... with laughter ... at your twisted interpretation.

You see quote mining doesn't mean just taking a quote from some text -- it means taking a quote out of context so that it looks like the opposite of what was said. That was not the case with Jefferson's letter.

I don't deny that some creationists sometimes do cross the line when quoting scientists, but if you want to try to convince people that many Democrats / atheists, whether they're militant atheist scientists or militant Trump haters, don't do the same and probably worse, you're not going to succeed.

Agreed -- all malicious use of quotes out of context are evil, they mislead and play false witness to the reality. It's just funny when the purported morally superior lot of purported christian types lie through their teeth with them.

I think you'd do well to drop it, but I hope you don't. Your side hasn't won an election in a while, you and the mainstream news media need to keep right on doing what you're doing to keep it that way.

The difference is that you don't know that you lost as well. The republicans only represent corporations, they only toss you bones to get elected and then don't come through with the goods promised. Such gullible suckers.

How's your healthcare? Really?

But then, if you believe in a young earth, then you already live in a fantasy world.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .

Edited by RAZD, : ..


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by marc9000, posted 07-08-2017 10:48 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by marc9000, posted 07-09-2017 1:49 PM RAZD has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29142
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(4)
Message 21 of 49 (814402)
07-09-2017 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by NoNukes
07-09-2017 2:12 AM


Re: It's a good laugh
NN writes:

marc writes:

Today, the 14th amendment is being quote mined to attempt to grant illegal immigrants constitutional rights

If this is your best example, then you are just wing-nutting rather than making a point. A complete reading of Supreme Court case law on the 14th amendment easily settles the issue of who is quote mining, and who knows that they are talking about. Hint. The current interpretation of the 14th amendment was not invented by liberals.

Actually, marc is simply lying yet again. Rather than an example of "quote mining" the use of the 14th Amendment to show that illegal immigrants within the jurisdiction of the US have the same Constitutional Rights outlined in that Amendment relies on the full context of the Amendment as well as the vast body of case law that has evolved over the issue since it was first written.

There is simply no culture of truth or honesty in today's Right-Wing Fascist movement.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by NoNukes, posted 07-09-2017 2:12 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by NoNukes, posted 07-09-2017 1:05 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9727
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 22 of 49 (814403)
07-09-2017 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by jar
07-09-2017 6:49 AM


Re: It's a good laugh
There is simply no culture of truth or honesty in today's Right-Wing Fascist movement.

I'd like to think that conservatives can carry on an honest political discussion, but some folks do so only occasionally. In particular, 9K has a pattern of eel-like behavior that is particularly annoying. RAZD's thread is the perfect opportunity for anyone to put up quote-mining examples if you've got them. Marc9000 likely believes that there will be an overwhelming number of creationist examples posted here, so in predictable, Boulder-dash fashion, he shows up to pee in the cornflakes rather than to discuss.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 07-09-2017 6:49 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 863
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 23 of 49 (814404)
07-09-2017 1:29 PM


I haven't seen a creationist quote any scientific literature for years.
So I don't think quote mining is going on.

Creationism doesn't even rely on the literature. I am around creationist people all the time.

I attempted to show Faith a massive source of scientific research quotes ( Charles Ginenthal free PDF books on his site ) on pro catastrophe geological issues, but she refused. She still debates the flood issue, but never quotes scientific literature.

Quoting shouldn't be attacked, nobody is kept from responding.

Perhaps the problem is that the journals aren't available ( except at a great expense ) so the short quotes are difficult to respond to WHEN a quote is ever used in a debate to start with?


Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by NoNukes, posted 07-09-2017 2:00 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
marc9000
Member
Posts: 889
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 24 of 49 (814405)
07-09-2017 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by RAZD
07-09-2017 6:00 AM


Re: It's a good laugh
It was marc, in fact it was that totally logic free statement uttered as if it were the death toll on the term that really set me howling ... with laughter. The dictionaries don't define every two word combination.

"Open compound words" are two words with a space between them, but when they are read together a new meaning is formed. Examples;

science fiction
school bus
runner up
check in
half mast
self respect
send off
living room
full moon
black eye
jump rope

You'll find all these at http://www.dictionary.com/. But you won't find "quote mine" there. So what was stated in my opening link was exactly right. Still laughing? I'm not, just saddened.

Since you NEVER concede points, I'll just stop there for today. And I'm not going to feed the rest of the trolls, all out of troll food today.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by RAZD, posted 07-09-2017 6:00 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Tangle, posted 07-09-2017 2:53 PM marc9000 has responded
 Message 30 by RAZD, posted 07-09-2017 5:53 PM marc9000 has responded
 Message 37 by Modulous, posted 07-11-2017 1:56 PM marc9000 has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9727
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 25 of 49 (814407)
07-09-2017 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by LamarkNewAge
07-09-2017 1:29 PM


Re: I haven't seen a creationist quote any scientific literature for years.
So I don't think quote mining is going on.

This thread was started in response to CRR doing exactly that.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-09-2017 1:29 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4883
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 26 of 49 (814411)
07-09-2017 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by marc9000
07-09-2017 1:49 PM


Re: It's a good laugh
marc writes:

But you won't find "quote mine" there.

You think that because a phrase is not in a dictionary it's some sort of victory for creationism? Are you really this desperate?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by marc9000, posted 07-09-2017 1:49 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by marc9000, posted 07-09-2017 3:09 PM Tangle has responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 889
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 27 of 49 (814412)
07-09-2017 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Tangle
07-09-2017 2:53 PM


Re: It's a good laugh
You think that because a phrase is not in a dictionary it's some sort of victory for creationism? Are you really this desperate?

Uh, noooo. I proved that a statement from my link, that RAZD went into convulsive laughter about, is a true statement. Try to keep up. Are you really this unhinged?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Tangle, posted 07-09-2017 2:53 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 07-09-2017 3:18 PM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 29 by Tangle, posted 07-09-2017 3:38 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13318
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 28 of 49 (814413)
07-09-2017 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by marc9000
07-09-2017 3:09 PM


Re: It's a good laugh
marc9000 writes:

I proved that a statement from my link, that RAZD went into convulsive laughter about, is a true statement.


The fact that the term "quote mining" is missing from one dictionary doesn't "prove" anything.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by marc9000, posted 07-09-2017 3:09 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4883
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


(5)
Message 29 of 49 (814414)
07-09-2017 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by marc9000
07-09-2017 3:09 PM


Re: It's a good laugh
marc writes:

Uh, noooo. I proved that a statement from my link, that RAZD went into convulsive laughter about, is a true statement.

What you actually did was quote something from a creationist web site that concluded with....

quote:
They have tried to make quote mining a pejorative term, but the neologism has yet to be recognized by major dictionaries.

Which is almost beyond ridicule. It's hard to know where to start.

Let's try again, do you really think it's some kind of victory for creationist that a phrase hasn't made it into a dictionary?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by marc9000, posted 07-09-2017 3:09 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18790
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


(4)
Message 30 of 49 (814426)
07-09-2017 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by marc9000
07-09-2017 1:49 PM


Re: It's a good laugh
Since you NEVER concede points, ...

Wrong. I have admitted errors and conceded many points in the past, some to Faith for example.

"Open compound words" are two words with a space between them, but when they are read together a new meaning is formed. Examples; ... You'll find all these at http://www.dictionary.com/. But you won't find "quote mine" there.

And you will note that my response was:

... The dictionaries don't define every two word combination.

So funny. I bet they don't define "gullible fool" either.

... Still laughing? ...

Haven't you noticed that everyone (that replied) is laughing at you on this?

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by marc9000, posted 07-09-2017 1:49 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by marc9000, posted 07-09-2017 8:03 PM RAZD has responded

  
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