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Author Topic:   Latest on the Republicans' war against health care
jar
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From: Texas!!
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Message 31 of 51 (815245)
07-17-2017 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Rrhain
07-17-2017 8:19 PM


And he was opposed to the Bill anyway so this is just stalling.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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PaulK
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Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 32 of 51 (815258)
07-18-2017 3:27 AM


It's dead, Jim
At least for now.

Republican attempts to replace Obamacare fail

But the Republicans are not giving up - Trump wants a timed repeal of Obamacare, leaving the question of how to replace it up in the air. Somehow this will provide "stability" (With big changes that nobody can predict coming in just a couple of years ? With the likeliest result being a last-minute cobbled-together compromise ? How does that provide any stability at all ?)


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jar
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Posts: 29447
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(2)
Message 33 of 51 (815271)
07-18-2017 6:35 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by PaulK
07-18-2017 3:27 AM


Where the Democrats fail
Unfortunately, the Democrats are simply giving away a glorious opportunity by not at least speaking out on what a Health Care Bill should do. Even though they can't pass anything they can still use their position to address the issue and sell an idea to the public if not the Legislature.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Taq
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(3)
Message 34 of 51 (815289)
07-18-2017 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by jar
07-18-2017 6:35 AM


Re: Where the Democrats fail
jar writes:

Unfortunately, the Democrats are simply giving away a glorious opportunity by not at least speaking out on what a Health Care Bill should do. Even though they can't pass anything they can still use their position to address the issue and sell an idea to the public if not the Legislature.

Agreed. They should at least be pitching a bill that would fix the ACA as it stands now. Once that is done, they could start pitching something like a public option for health insurance, which was supposed to be part of the original ACA.


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NoNukes
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(2)
Message 35 of 51 (815293)
07-18-2017 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Taq
07-18-2017 11:35 AM


Re: Where the Democrats fail
Agreed. They should at least be pitching a bill that would fix the ACA as it stands now. Once that is done, they could start pitching something like a public option for health insurance, which was supposed to be part of the original ACA.

They should indeed. But now, and not prior to the Republicans screwing stuff up, is the time to do that. The Republicans are gearing up for a straight repeal vote. Unfortunately for that effort, the most unpopular part of the ACA for their constituents is turning out to be Obama, and Barack is gone fishing.

Perfect time to pitch a new plan. Unless you are counting on the Republicans failing to even get a straight repeal vote done.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


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Rrhain
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From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
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(1)
Message 36 of 51 (815301)
07-18-2017 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
07-17-2017 8:31 PM


jar responds to me:

quote:
And he was opposed to the Bill anyway so this is just stalling.

Until he voted no or at least publicly stated that he was going to vote no, then he was for it. McCain has a long history of blustering in front of cameras about how he doesn't like this bill or that bill only to vote for it when it comes up. This hagiography of him as being a "maverick" and "willing to work across the aisle" is a farce.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

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Taq
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Joined: 03-06-2009
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Message 37 of 51 (815302)
07-18-2017 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by NoNukes
07-18-2017 11:51 AM


Re: Where the Democrats fail
NoNukes writes:

Perfect time to pitch a new plan. Unless you are counting on the Republicans failing to even get a straight repeal vote done.

They have now shown that they can't agree on a plan for a replacement which completely undercuts the idea that they can repeal now and replace later. It is like a little kid who overturns his bicycle even when the training wheels are on, and then expecting him to ride perfectly when the training wheels are removed.

You also have to look at what measures Republicans can even agree on within their own caucus. Do they have 50 votes for massive cutbacks in Medicaid, reduction in subsidies for insurance premiums, removal of protections for pre-existing conditions, subsidies for insurance companies, or requirements for coverage? I don't think they do.

I think they know that the "conservative" approach will boot people off of insurance, especially those that need it the most.


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Chiroptera
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Posts: 6396
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


(1)
Message 38 of 51 (815360)
07-19-2017 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by NoNukes
07-18-2017 11:51 AM


Next item: Tax cuts for the rich!
Well, Republican health care "reform" failed:

The New York Times - As Senate Gives Up Trump Makes Vow: Care Act Will Fail

Now it'll be time to try to kill Obamacare by refusing to adequately fund it:

Mr. Trump declared that his plan was now to “let Obamacare fail.” ... If he is determined to make good on that pledge, he has plenty of levers to pull, from declining to reimburse insurance companies for reducing low-income customers’ out-of-pocket costs to failing to enforce the mandate that most Americans have health coverage.

But:

“It’ll be a lot easier,” Mr. Trump said at the White House, adding: “We’re not going to own it. I’m not going to own it. I can tell you the Republicans are not going to own it. We’ll let Obamacare fail, and then the Democrats are going to come to us.”

I'm not so sure that they can refuse to "own it":

Members of both parties have ideas about how to stabilize insurance markets and hold down premiums. One possible action is to provide money for the payments to insurers for reducing customers’ out-of-pocket costs. In addition, two Democratic senators, Thomas R. Carper of Delaware and Tim Kaine of Virginia, want the federal government to help pay the largest claims through a backstop known as reinsurance. Senators of both parties also want to help people in counties where no insurer chooses to offer health plans through the Affordable Care Act marketplace — a real possibility in some places next year.

If some bipartisan compromises can be worked out here, then any failure will clearly be the fault of Congressional "conservative" Republicans and their leadership and/or the President.


Patriotism is the excuse that countries give to themselves for their failures. – Stephen Marche

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Diomedes
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Posts: 664
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
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(1)
Message 39 of 51 (815367)
07-19-2017 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Chiroptera
07-19-2017 12:17 PM


Re: Next item: Tax cuts for the rich!
I'm not so sure that they can refuse to "own it":

You gotta love the temerity (and stupidity) that is coming out of this administration.

Can anyone imagine how Republicans would have responded if Obama said he wasn't going to 'own' the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

And what precisely is the expectation here pertaining to the Democrats? The Republicans have the presidency, the house AND the senate. Their inability to pass a new updated bill stems from problems within their own party and senate Republicans not wanting to support the bill in its current form. It was Mitch McConnell who decided to form this bill in closed sessions with only a small number of Republicans contributing. Why didn't they hold a broader session with their entire party?

What I find fascinating about this whole situation is I still remember how many times Obama was beaten over the head for making the claim that 'you could keep your doctor if you want' when he was trying to sell Obamacare. That in the Republican's minds was an impeachable offense. But when Trump said during his campaign that health care was 'so easy', he is not called on his bullshit.

And here is the video of that claim:

Oh, and did I also mention that it appears he and his family colluded with Russia?


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Taq
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Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 40 of 51 (815375)
07-19-2017 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Diomedes
07-19-2017 2:55 PM


Re: Next item: Tax cuts for the rich!
Diomedes writes:

Can anyone imagine how Republicans would have responded if Obama said he wasn't going to 'own' the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

The same thought struck me as well. Trump might as well claim that he isn't going to protect Americans from ISIS because Obama caused all of that mess, and that he won't own it if Americans are killed by ISIS. It's the same logic. Trump has also tried the same thing with the economy, claiming that he inherited a "mess" (even though he didn't).

If there were a Trump Dictionary you wouldn't find the word "accountability" anywhere in it.


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jar
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Posts: 29447
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 41 of 51 (815381)
07-19-2017 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Taq
07-19-2017 4:07 PM


Re: Next item: Tax cuts for the rich!
There is no point to having guilt if you cannot delegate it.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Taq
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Posts: 7196
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


(5)
Message 42 of 51 (815513)
07-20-2017 5:10 PM


Trump doesn't even know what health insurance is
The sad thing is that Trump apparently doesn't know what health insurance is, or how it works:

"So pre-existing conditions are a tough deal. Because you are basically saying from the moment the insurance, you’re 21 years old, you start working and you’re paying $12 a year for insurance, and by the time you’re 70, you get a nice plan. Here’s something where you walk up and say, “I want my insurance.” It’s a very tough deal, but it is something that we’re doing a good job of."
http://www.vanityfair.com/...h-insurance-is-an-investigation

Trump thinks health insurance costs 12 bucks a year, and that you cash it in like life insurance. No joke.


  
JonF
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Member Rating: 2.2


Message 43 of 51 (815617)
07-21-2017 8:43 PM


OUT OF ORDER: Senate Parliamentarian Guts Repeal And Replace Effort

quote:
Here's the high-level overview of some of what they can't pass with 51 votes:

Defund Planned Parenthood
Remove tax credits for policies that cover abortion care
Dropping Essential Health Benefits (EHB) coverage for Medicaid
Requiring a "six-month lockout" for anyone whose coverage lapses
Allowing states to determine the Medical Loss Ratio (what insurers can spend on overhead and marketing instead of health care)
Allowing states to roll over unused Medicaid block grant funds to the following year and spend them on anything, including things which are unrelated to health care.
State-specific buyoffs like the House-based "Buffalo buyout"


Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


  
JonF
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(3)
Message 44 of 51 (815947)
07-26-2017 5:05 PM


quote:
What’s truly remarkable isn’t that a bunch of cynical politicians thought they could ride their base voters’ anger into control of Congress by lying to them about what they could actually accomplish; it’s that their voters actually believed it. And then those voters got even angrier when it turned out that the president had the ability to veto bills passed by a Congress controlled by the other party. Who knew! So instead of looking for a presidential candidate who would treat them like adults, they elected Donald Trump, a man who would pander to their gullibility even more.

Which brings us to where we are today. Republicans couldn’t be bothered for seven years to actually think about what repealing and replacing the ACA might involve, or whether there would be trade-offs and choices to make, or whether setting up a system that accorded with their conservative philosophy might not actually solve the problems of the health-care system. They thought it would be enough to tell their voters to get mad, and worry later about what it would take to keep the promises they made.

So now they find themselves with a bill that nearly everyone hates. If it passes (in whatever form), it will be a disaster for the health-care system and will be a political disaster for them as well. But they’ve convinced themselves that the only thing worse politically would be to not pass anything, because that would incur the wrath of those same base voters. In other words, their current position is, “We know how catastrophic this bill would be. But we got here by lying to these knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers for years, and if we don’t follow through, they’ll punish us.” They believe that their voters will say, “Okay, so I lost my health coverage because of you, but you’ll get my vote again because you kept your promise.”

That’s not to say that there isn’t plenty of outright malice in what Republicans are doing, because there is. Their contempt for people who struggle economically is boundless. They’ve wanted to destroy Medicaid for decades, and they just might be able to do it. But their strongest motivation right now is fear, fear of the voters they regard as too dim-witted to be able to make a rational judgment about the most consequential policy question one can imagine.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/...t-their-voters-like-morons


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ramoss
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Message 45 of 51 (815958)
07-26-2017 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by JonF
07-26-2017 5:05 PM


Just to point out.. the bill to repeal the ACA failed today.

http://www.msnbc.com/...publicans-fail-again-aca-repeal-vote


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