Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 109 (8803 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 11-24-2017 10:48 PM
321 online now:
Coyote, LamarkNewAge, Meddle, Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus) (4 members, 317 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: jaufre
Post Volume:
Total: 822,959 Year: 27,565/21,208 Month: 1,478/1,714 Week: 321/365 Day: 48/42 Hour: 0/0

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev12
3
Author Topic:   What do you think of the evidence for psychic abilities?
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1010
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 31 of 37 (817212)
08-15-2017 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Tanypteryx
08-15-2017 5:41 PM


Re: U.S. government use of psychics.
I knew that single paste would get me in trouble. The voluminous use of psychics shows the very real interest of the government, and there is detailed analysis and number crunching of the success and failure of Operation Grill Flame and others.

See the links.

They are actually quite detailed.

Phat had a good link too, but the referenced journals aren't available for the public. The Psychology Today article referenced journal papers and they indeed had amazing success stories (it seems).

My links have available data, that can be read by all. And they aren't fringe sources. (despite the voluminous and at times silly subject matter)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-15-2017 5:41 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10087
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 32 of 37 (817257)
08-16-2017 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by LamarkNewAge
08-15-2017 5:30 PM


What Do You Think? (You go first)
See the links.

They are actually quite detailed.

A word about links. This is only my opinion, but I usually personally only post a link that I myself think is interesting to read...and I tend to go with lighter fare. My reasoning is that people here at EvC are more interested in what I have to say and believe based on a person rather than based on any facts I can dredge up. Granted I am a legend only in my own mind, and am probably quite dull to some people here...but they at least know about me and what I think about versus voluminous links which they usually won't read anyway. (same for you Tube videos) My point is that I feel more comfortable hearing what you personally have to say rather than any link that you provide.

LNA writes:

My links have available data, that can be read by all. And they aren't fringe sources. (despite the voluminous and at times silly subject matter)

To be honest, the voluminous subject matter bores me...especially in your links on religious issues. I would be more interested in your beliefs if you presented them with some brief reasoning from you personally as to why you feel that you are on the path that you are on. I don't simply want to know you as "that annoying links guy who I think believes in zoroastrianism.." I am more interested in why you believe (or don't believe) the links that you provide for us to read.

Lets take this topic that you started.

LNA writes:

I knew that single paste would get me in trouble. The voluminous use of psychics shows the very real interest of the government, and there is detailed analysis and number crunching of the success and failure of Operation Grill Flame and others.

Skip the detailed analysis and number crunching. What do you personally think about the data that you have researched? Why are you impressed with what you are impressed with?

LNA writes:

There is some controversy as to whether recently declassified documents present the whole truth.

I just found this out doing a google search (based on a N. Y. Post Story I read months ago, infact I saved the actual story in a plastic ziplock bag), but the sites wont let me paste.

So quit with the excessive pasting already! Tell us what impressed you about the story.

LNA writes:

I don't know how much this topic needs to be discussed, but does anybody have any observations?

Have any knowledge of what Dr. Fish might be talking about?
Any thoughts?

You started the topic, so it is up to you to speak first. What do you personally believe about psychics? What (in your own words) have you read and why were you impressed (or skeptical)?

I'm sure Matthew 24 might be able to be made relevant. Or Isaiah and Kings?
Is that specifically regarding psychics or is that another topic?

Edited by Phat, : editing


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-15-2017 5:30 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2725
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 33 of 37 (817384)
08-17-2017 10:14 AM


Life is stranger than fiction
What if there is a yet to be discovered explanation for what seems to be ESP?

Before you all go rolling your eyes:

Top gun pilots are able to make microsecond adjustments at mach speeds to avoid death.

Is it possible for the brain to somehow have access to events microseconds before the event happens?

There are physics experiments that show that events can happen before causes.

Many things that humans thought were supernatural have been shown to have a scientific explanation. Perhaps someday ESP will too. (if it does exist)

quote:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."~Arthur C. Clarke

quote:
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. ~Shakespeare

Edited by 1.61803, : redundant word removed.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 10:39 AM 1.61803 has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7263
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 34 of 37 (817385)
08-17-2017 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by 1.61803
08-17-2017 10:14 AM


Re: Life is stranger than fiction
1.61803 writes:

Top gun pilots are able to make microsecond adjustments at mach speeds to avoid death.

Is it possible for the brain to somehow have access to events microseconds before the event happens?

Hours of training seems like a much more likely explanation for those fast reflexes. Due to "muscle memory", they are able to quickly react to a situation without needing to think about it, just like you are able to type without thinking about every keystroke.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by 1.61803, posted 08-17-2017 10:14 AM 1.61803 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by 1.61803, posted 08-17-2017 11:29 AM Taq has responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2725
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 35 of 37 (817402)
08-17-2017 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Taq
08-17-2017 10:39 AM


Re: Life is stranger than fiction
Taq writes:

Hours of training seems like a much more likely explanation for those fast reflexes.

Indeed.
I do not dispute that training and muscle memory can influence a positive outcome hence why they are trained. But many of the best of the best have been described as having "The edge".
This edge seems uncanny,surreal, unexplainable. They are routinely making the right millisecond decision every time. But this is not limited to just Top gun pilots, other everyday people have invoked this ability in moments of life or death millisecond decisions. The pilots do this routinely, but how many untold times do ordinary people do this? Yes a broken clock is right twice a day and eventually people will get "lucky". But that is not what I am talking about. What we call luck may at times be some yet unexplained tapping into immediate future events and making adjustments. This ability may even be genetic in that some people are able to do this and other are not.

Again I am not claiming this is what is happening but I am not ruling out the possibility either.

https://www.newscientist.com/...e-that-we-can-see-the-future

http://news.cornell.edu/...y-looks-brains-ability-see-future

http://www.science20.com/...cognition_or_pseudoscience-84265

http://www.csicop.org/...psychology_experiments_published_by

Edited by 1.61803, : adding a counter point link 2013.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 10:39 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 11:43 AM 1.61803 has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7263
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 36 of 37 (817403)
08-17-2017 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by 1.61803
08-17-2017 11:29 AM


Re: Life is stranger than fiction
1.61803 writes:

I do not dispute that training and muscle memory can influence a positive outcome hence why they are trained. But many of the best of the best have been described as having "The edge".

Some people are better at physical and/or athletic tasks than others. Not everyone can hit a 100 mph fastball as well as Ted Williams. People being better than others at a task doesn't need any paranormal explanations, at least in my opinion.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by 1.61803, posted 08-17-2017 11:29 AM 1.61803 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by 1.61803, posted 08-17-2017 11:52 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2725
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 37 of 37 (817406)
08-17-2017 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Taq
08-17-2017 11:43 AM


Re: Life is stranger than fiction
quote:
....paranormal explanations, at least in my opinion.

In my opinion as well. My point was that perhaps someday it will not be considered paranormal.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 11:43 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
Prev12
3
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017