Is it "Politically Correct"...

Ask vimesey, from Message 33 that I replied to:

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We're not talking about an official spokesman, are we? I thought we were talking about some guy in the crowd.

Mine was a reply to your message 8, in which you said "Authorities should only be able to deal with individuals who break the law" - I believe they should be able to deal with associations of individuals also, when the associations are held to have broken the law.

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Are you arguing that accidental deaths are entirely acceptable?Isn't it reasonable to argue that more should be done to try to prevent such deaths ?And if a murdering cop was only caught because his actions were recorded in video how do you know that there aren't other cases where such evidence wasn't available ? Isn't it reasonable to suppose that there are at least some ? And that the murdering cops lied about what happened - as Michael Slager did ?Think about it. It's pretty hard for a cop to get away free if there is solid evidence of murder (although it sadly seems that getting convictions can be hard even when there is good evidence Judge Declares Mistrial ).The mere fact that a cop was caught murdering a man and lying about it - and came worryingly close to getting away with it makes it virtually certain that there are other cases where the cop was not caught.

It's worth pointing out that there were no BLM chants of "What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want it? Now." Chants Encounter

Don't be ricdiculous, of course not. I'm arguing that they don't show racist intentions and don't deserve wholesale cop murder in retaliation. Sure, but in your opinion is taking to the streets and burning down buildings and attacking people and murdering cops doing more to prevent such deaths? There no doubt have been other such incidents, but BLM is BASED ON the ones I've referred to, ones where there is NO justification whatever that I can see, involving an absolute denial of black criminality and black provocation of the cops. And most of those were due to cops overreacting from fear, so I would assume there would be many more of those unrecorded as well. And how are you going to rectify that problem, which is no doubt racist in the sense that the cops expect more violence from blacks?Why now when there IS better evidence is a murdering destructive rampage considered justifiable? Now when presumably it should be easier to make the case you want to see made?

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Don't be ricdiculous, of course not. I'm arguing that they don't show racist intentions and don't deserve wholesale cop murder in retaliation

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Since nobody here is suggesting that wholesale cop murder is even remotely acceptable you are the one being ridiculous. But if accidents of this sort happen it is hardly unreasonable to suggest that something should be done and if they happen disproportionately to Blacks...

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Sure, but in your opinion is taking to the streets and burning down buildings and attacking people and murdering cops doing more to prevent such deaths?

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Certainly not.

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There no doubt have been other such incidents,

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You are missing the point. You said:

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Find me ONE case where an innocent black man was killed for no reason at all and the cop got awy free.

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And I point out that the there very likely - almost certainly - have been such cases. It's just that proving an individual case rather works against the "cop got away free" part.

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but BLM is BASED ON the ones I've referred to, ones where there is NO justification whatever that I can see, involving an absolute denial of black criminality and black provocation of the cops.

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Because obviously the kid with a toy gun was a criminal....I think you have made it adequately clear that you do NOT think it reasonable to suggest that there should be fewer such deaths.

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Why now when there IS better evidence is a murdering destructive rampage considered justifiable? Now when presumably it should be easier to make the case you want to see made?

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Ask people who say it's justifiable.But in return I'll ask you what's the point in smearing BLM ? Do you just think that unjustifiable deaths are worth it if you can hurt the Left ?

They are entitled to their opinion.None of those case or the subsequent discussion is evidence for "my impression is that BLM for sure and possibly also Antifa, want a Holocaust of the white race" or "The evidence is good that the BLM are out to kill cops and white people and are happy to say so. "Got any?Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

Look, you've been implying that BLM's tactics are fine with you up until this post when you've decided to upbraid me for supposing that. I haven't seen you decrying their violence until now. Genomicus for one has outright defended it so I know some on the Left do that.There was one outright murder by a cop in this collection of incidents, Slager. And it was prosecuted.There were two cases of cops being provoked: Michael Brown who was involved in a petty crime the officer was responding to, who then attacked the officer; and Trayvon Martin who threatened whatshisname, not a cop exactly but in a position of authority.There was one accidental death: GarnerThere was one death from extreme negligence: forget his name the guy who died from injuries caused by being tossed around in the cop car, and it was prosecuted. If you want to put Garner in this category, fine with me. Both were caused by black officers so you can't call it racist.Then there are the deaths as a result of cops' fearfulness. Tamir Rice was a very sad case of a kid waving around a toy gun and the cops thinking it was real. On the surveillance video you see them cowering behind their car, or one of them I forget. The recent case of the man shot in his car who had told the officer he had a gun in the car is another sad case. You can hear the fear in the cop's voice on the video. I thought there were more of this kind of incident but I guess there were only these two.I am certainly in favor of doing something to avoid such incidents. How about a program of educating the black community not to threaten cops, not to resist arrest, keep your hands visible, like on the steering wheel, and don't go waving around toy guns? I don't see what the cops themselves could have done differently in any of those situations. Do you?Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Look, you've been implying that BLM's tactics are fine with you up until this post when you've decided to upbraid me for supposing that. I haven't seen you decrying their violence until now.

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My only comment on this supposed violence so far is to say that I haven't seen the evidence that BLM are anything like as bad as you say they are. I'm not about to condemn alleged violence until I know it's actually happened.

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There were two cases of cops being provoked: Michael Brown who was involved in a petty crime the officer was responding to, who then attacked the officer; and Trayvon Martin who threatened whatshisname, not a cop exactly but in a position of authority.

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Zimmerman was only a neighbourhood watch coordinator who took it upon himself to stalk Trayvon Martin - not a police officer or a security guard. Zimmerman was the one with a gun and we only have his story about what happened. While he was cleared legally it was more because we don't know what happened than because we know he's innocent.You are on firmer ground with Michael Brown.

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I am certainly in favor of doing something to avoid such incidents. How about a program of educating the black community not to threaten cops, not to resist arrest, keep your hands visible, like on the steering wheel, and don't go waving around toy guns? I don't see what the cops themselves could have done differently in any of those situations. Do you?

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Not so long ago you were comparing the Bundy situation with Waco, but only one of the Bundy's supporters was killed (one of the occupiers of the wildlife refuge), and it seems that he actually was reaching for a gun.Teaching officers to be less trigger happy would be a start. Is cooperating with police enough when even that didn't save the guy shot in his car ? In neither case was there any need to shoot

I don't remember all that clearly I admit but I had the impression that there was both witness evidence and some kind of physical evidence that Trayvon Martin acted in a threatening manner. But maybe I'm confusing him with Michael Brown.As for "teaching officers to be less trigger happy" the problem is that if the cop is scared, which I agree is hard to justify in the case of the shooting of the guy in his car, how do you teach a cop not to be fearful? The guy was cooperative by the sound of his voice and I would think the cop could tell that too, but apparently he moved his hand out of sight and that is what scared the cop. Keeping your hands visible is the first rule of how not to threaten someone if you possess a gun. My guess is you CAN'T teach cops out of that fearfulness, they've had too many experiences of having good reason to be fearful; but basic rules of how not to be threatening should be teachable.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

See for yourself: https://youtu.be/hqQXmnMr_w8

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I don't remember all that clearly I admit but I had the impression that there was both witness evidence and some kind of physical evidence that Trayvon Martin acted in a threatening manner. But maybe I'm confusing him with Michael Brown.

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Witness statements did not who identify how the fight started, but it is entirely possible that Zimmerman provoked Martin more than the other way around. Also, as I pointed out Zimmerman had no authority.

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As for "teaching officers to be less trigger happy" the problem is that if the cop is scared, which I agree is hard to justify in the case of the shooting of the guy in his car, how do you teach a cop not to be fearful? The guy was cooperative by the sound of his voice and I would think the cop could tell that too, but apparently he moved his hand out of sight and that is what scared the cop

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The way I remember it, he was reaching for his license papers, as instructed.More to the point, police officers should not be keen to shoot first - yes, it is sometimes risky, but that is a part of the job. Shooting should be saved for when it is needed - and panic is something that ought to be avoided in all cases.

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but basic rules of how not to be threatening should be teachable.

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You'd think that a guy who was helpless after a minor stroke would not be threatening. He still got tased for not responding to police officer's demands.

It is one of many cases where the black community feels there is police abuse. We could go back to Rodney King if you like. Black Lives Matter is not calling for any police officer to be hurt. Yes, there are hot heads who will do stupid things, but the movement as a whole is peaceful. A recent case in Baltimore had police officers planting drugs on people. They even tried to work around their body cams, but one body cam finally caught it. What was happening before body cams?

This constant deflection to other groups is a rather obvious ploy to support white supremacists.

Rommel was just a German war hero. Do you think statues of him wouldn't suggest Nazism at all?

It's clear to many many many people, including those who know the history. Maybe hard for you. Exceptionally easy for lots of others.