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Author Topic:   Is it "Politically Correct"...
Faith
Member
Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 121 of 195 (817465)
08-17-2017 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Joe T
08-17-2017 2:50 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
I bring BLM and Antifa into it because Horowitz did:

In short, there were two demonstrations in Charlottesville - a legal protest by “Unite the Right” and one protest by the vigilantes of Antifa and Black Lives Matter. Who started the fight is really immaterial. Both sides were prepared for violence because these conflicts are already a pattern of our deteriorating civic life. Once the two sides had gathered in the same place, the violence was totally predictable. Two parties, two culpabilities; but except for the initial statement of President Trump, condemning both sides, only one party has been held accountable, and that happens to be the one that was in the park legally.

He is commenting on Saturday, you seem to be commenting only on Friday. Perhaps different groups of counter protestors were involved?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/.../real-race-war-david-horowitz


This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Joe T, posted 08-17-2017 2:50 PM Joe T has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Joe T, posted 08-17-2017 3:55 PM Faith has responded

    
Joe T
Member
Posts: 40
From: Virginia
Joined: 01-10-2002


(1)
Message 122 of 195 (817466)
08-17-2017 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Faith
08-17-2017 3:25 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
OK I read Horowitz's column. I was not impressed. Tell me how chanting, "Jews will not replace us" has anything to do with a civil war statue. Tell me how screaming, "you sound like a nigger" at the counter protesters has anything to do with the statue. The statue was a convenient excuse. The people Friday night were the same as the ones that came Saturday except on Saturday the ones with guns showed up.

Also I find it quite dishonest that he prints a picture that isn't even from Charlottesville at the head of the article. What he showed there did not happen in Charlottesville. Also BLM was not a presence there. Also, as Brietbart noted in their timeline, the Nazis started the major violence by charging a line of unarmed citizens in a church parking lot.

He has an agenda and honestly assessing the events from Charlottesville isn't part of it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 08-17-2017 3:25 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Faith, posted 08-17-2017 5:13 PM Joe T has not yet responded
 Message 124 by Chiroptera, posted 08-17-2017 5:21 PM Joe T has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 123 of 195 (817468)
08-17-2017 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Joe T
08-17-2017 3:55 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
Horowitz did not defend the white supremacist group and I don't know why you all act like he did, or I did. I wish they were never allowed any kind of public forum and I'm sorry it was allowed in Charlottesville.

Horowitz apparently believes there was a strong BLM and Antifa presence there. Maybe he's wrong but I can't tell much about anything at this point. I watched the video Huntard posted and I don't know who was there, it's all a blur. I read some of Breitbart's timeline but my eyes won't hold up for the whole thing, but from what I did manage to read it's clear that in past similar rallies there has been a BLM and Antifa presence.

I have no idea what's in the picture at FPM you say isn't from Charlottesville. It looks like a melee of some sort, how do you kinow it isn't from the Charlottesville melee?

The connection with the statue is that they identify it with their white culture and Jews and blacks with the haters of their culture. It's not too hard to figure out.

They're way out of line but since it's the Left calling for pulling down the statues, the Left denouncing the "white race" and pursuing lots of similar anti-American positions, they have a grain of truth on their side. They are reacting to the same Leftist stuff I hate, only I also hate their racism and violence just as much.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Joe T, posted 08-17-2017 3:55 PM Joe T has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 5:26 PM Faith has responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6393
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 124 of 195 (817470)
08-17-2017 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Joe T
08-17-2017 3:55 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
I was not impressed. Tell me how chanting, "Jews will not replace us" has anything to do with a civil war statue. Tell me how screaming, "you sound like a nigger" at the counter protesters has anything to do with the statue.

If you look at the history of the Jim Crow era South and the history of when and why those statues were originally erected, the you'll see that those chants pretty much are what those statues are about.


Patriotism is the excuse that countries give to themselves for their failures. – Stephen Marche

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Joe T, posted 08-17-2017 3:55 PM Joe T has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Faith, posted 08-17-2017 5:25 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 125 of 195 (817472)
08-17-2017 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Chiroptera
08-17-2017 5:21 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
If the statues were in fact intended to represent white supremacy and slavery that should be made a lot clearer. Otherwise the impression is just that they are the South's war heroes and since we've all heard their names it's hard to think of them as representing racism.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Chiroptera, posted 08-17-2017 5:21 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 5:27 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 149 by ringo, posted 08-18-2017 12:35 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 150 by JonF, posted 08-18-2017 1:25 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 126 of 195 (817473)
08-17-2017 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Faith
08-17-2017 5:13 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
Faith writes:

Horowitz apparently believes there was a strong BLM and Antifa presence there.

That is propaganda meant to support the white supremacists. Just the name "Antifa" should tell you what is going on. It is short for anti-fascists. Guess who anti-fascists protest against? Fascists. What is fascism?

"Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce, "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Fascism is the use of violence to support a nationalist political agenda. Sound familiar?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Faith, posted 08-17-2017 5:13 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Faith, posted 08-17-2017 5:31 PM Taq has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 127 of 195 (817474)
08-17-2017 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Faith
08-17-2017 5:25 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
Faith writes:

If the statues were in fact intended to represent white supremacy and slavery that should be made a lot clearer.

You shouldn't limit yourself to far right media sources.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Faith, posted 08-17-2017 5:25 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 128 of 195 (817476)
08-17-2017 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Taq
08-17-2017 5:26 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
It is beyond absurd to attribute any sort of pro-white supremacy to David Horowitz.

I can't tell how much BLM or Antifa presence might have been at the weekend rallies but as Breitbart reports they have certainly been a presence at other similar rallies over the last few months.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 5:26 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 5:34 PM Faith has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(2)
Message 129 of 195 (817478)
08-17-2017 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Faith
08-17-2017 5:31 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
Faith writes:

I can't tell how much BLM or Antifa presence might have been at the weekend rallies but as Breitbart reports they have certainly been a presence at other similar rallies over the last few months.

One side is built on centuries of racism and violence, including the lynching of hundreds of black people.

The other side thinks that black lives matter.

Are you saying they are morally equivalent?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Faith, posted 08-17-2017 5:31 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Faith, posted 08-17-2017 5:37 PM Taq has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 130 of 195 (817480)
08-17-2017 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Taq
08-17-2017 5:34 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
You are one of the most underhanded debaters I've ever encountered.

I'm saying Black Lives Matter is violent and racist and have committed murders. They were also formed on refusing to recognize that it was criminal behavior that provoked the cops they now want to kill for doing their duty. I'm not even sure they have a single justified complaint. They are irrationally racist and violent and they are pawns of the Left.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 5:34 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 5:42 PM Faith has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 131 of 195 (817481)
08-17-2017 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Faith
08-17-2017 5:37 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
Faith writes:

I'm saying Black Lives Matter is violent and racist and have committed murders.

Here is their website:

http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/

Can you point to where they advocate for racism or violence?

They were also formed on refusing to recognize that it was criminal behavior that provoked the cops they now want to kill for doing their duty.

They formed around multiple instances where cops shot and killed unarmed black men. They want EQUAL justice, and that isn't racist.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Faith, posted 08-17-2017 5:37 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 08-17-2017 5:47 PM Taq has responded
 Message 133 by Faith, posted 08-17-2017 5:59 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 132 of 195 (817484)
08-17-2017 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Taq
08-17-2017 5:42 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
The black men were charging at the cops, provoking them, trying to take away their weapon, or behaving in a way that scared the cop; in a few of the cases the cops were responding to their criminal activity. In some cases the cop probably acted rashly, but you can't say they weren't provoked. I can't think of ONE case where this is not true. Can you?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 5:42 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 6:07 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 133 of 195 (817488)
08-17-2017 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Taq
08-17-2017 5:42 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
A couple of very sad cases:

Garner selling cigarettes. Cops overreacted under the direction of a BLACK supervisor, and Garner died by accident due to the way they held him down.

The boy in the park with the toy gun. The cops thought it was real, overreacted.; Really sad case.

The guy who bolted during a routine stop was outright murdered by the cop, and that was caught on video. But the cop has been prosecuted so you can't say that's a case of cops getting away with murder.

Guy in handcuffs who died in the back of a police car from being knocked around since he wasn't restrained. Severe negligence on the part of the BLACK driver. But that case too has been prosecuted,l hasn't it?

Find me ONE case where an innocent black man was killed for no reason at all and the cop got awy free.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 5:42 PM Taq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by PaulK, posted 08-18-2017 4:17 AM Faith has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 134 of 195 (817489)
08-17-2017 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Faith
08-17-2017 5:47 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
Faith writes:

The black men were charging at the cops, provoking them, trying to take away their weapon, or behaving in a way that scared the cop; in a few of the cases the cops were responding to their criminal activity. In some cases the cop probably acted rashly, but you can't say they weren't provoked. I can't think of ONE case where this is not true. Can you?

In most cases, we just have the word of the cop. As we have seen in many other cases, cops are not always reliable as witnesses.

In one case, a black man announced he was armed. He was asked to get his ID, and when he did so he was shot. They had been pulled over for a broken tail light, and just the fact that he was a black man carrying a gun was enough to get him shot.
http://www.cnn.com/...0/us/philando-castile-shooting-dashcam


This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 08-17-2017 5:47 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Faith, posted 08-17-2017 6:16 PM Taq has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26273
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 135 of 195 (817492)
08-17-2017 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Taq
08-17-2017 6:07 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
That is a very recent case. I'm addressing the cases that supposedly are the reason for BLM. That recent case is another case of a cop rashly overreacting, to a really extreme degree, but I don't think you can call for murdering all coops on the basis of that kind of overreaction, which could only get worse with that kind of "solution" anyway.

As for only having the word of the cop, most of the cases I've referred to I've seen on video, and in the case of Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin I've read the evidence against them and it is convincing that they acted provocatively.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 6:07 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Taq, posted 08-18-2017 11:07 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
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