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Author Topic:   Revolting middle class. If the rich keep funding war with the lives of the lower clas
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1422
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 16 of 86 (817790)
08-20-2017 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Phat
08-20-2017 10:44 AM


Re: Sacrificial We Are (as wannabe gods)
Phat

The mainstream religions are cancerous for sure, but some religions are OK.

Gnostic Christianity for one.

Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

As John Lennon said, the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 08-20-2017 10:44 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13622
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 17 of 86 (817805)
08-20-2017 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Greatest I am
08-19-2017 2:20 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Greatest I am writes:

If we do not put our selfishness first, and remain as fit mentally and physically as possible, we could not help the rest of society survive and thrive and would have to rely on it's help us to survive and thus be a drain on it.


You contradict yourself. If some of us rely on society to help us survive then there is no such thing as one member of society being "more fit" than another.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Greatest I am, posted 08-19-2017 2:20 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Greatest I am, posted 08-20-2017 7:50 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13622
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 18 of 86 (817806)
08-20-2017 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Phat
08-20-2017 10:44 AM


Re: Sacrificial We Are (as wannabe gods)
Phat writes:

Even though you are an atheist you would likely argue that Jesus sacrificed Himself (the individual) for the benefit of the world (preservation of species)


Not really. Even if Jesus existed, he himself didn't do much for the benefit of the world. He understood the principle of helping each other to preserve the species but unfortunately his followers don't seem to.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 08-20-2017 10:44 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 08-20-2017 4:24 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9739
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 19 of 86 (817822)
08-20-2017 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by ringo
08-20-2017 2:08 PM


Re: Sacrificial We Are (as wannabe gods)
ringo writes:

Even if Jesus existed, he himself didn't do much for the benefit of the world. (...)

If you keep shooting yourself in the foot, you will hobble around like Long John Silver.

If Jesus, of all people, didn't do that much good what possible value is it in being a far left idealist liberal who prides himself on giving spare change to the misbegotten in town and who preaches that we all should help the working class up the economic ladder even if at our own expense?

I swear! Just when I think you understand the value of helping the least of these, I somehow find you stubbornly failing to defend the source which makes it all possible....unless of course, you believe that we all are our own source and that it is a good thing to put our own futures on hold simply to bring the working class a bit closer to an ideal that we ourselves should ignore!


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 08-20-2017 2:08 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Greatest I am, posted 08-20-2017 7:57 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 08-21-2017 12:49 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1422
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 20 of 86 (817834)
08-20-2017 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by ringo
08-20-2017 2:05 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
ringo

"You contradict yourself. If some of us rely on society to help us survive then there is no such thing as one member of society being "more fit" than another."

Dear boy, I never contradict myself. If I had, you would have shown how.

Such an extraordinary thing, me contradicting myself, would need extraordinary evidence.

Tell me, if the person who has what it takes to help another who needs it, and he is no fitter than the one he is helping, then the one being helped is not worthy or requiring help as he is as fit as the helpful one. Right?

Equals do not need or have the need to help.

That means what you said is refuted.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by ringo, posted 08-20-2017 2:05 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by ringo, posted 08-21-2017 12:55 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1422
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 21 of 86 (817835)
08-20-2017 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
08-20-2017 4:24 PM


Re: Sacrificial We Are (as wannabe gods)
Phat

You say that Jesus did a lot of good for mankind.

Have you ignored that his genocidal son murdering father Yahweh/Jesus has spawned an intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religion that has helped to gift us with 2,000 years of war?

They still persecute gays even unto death and do not do right by women.

If you are not sure, ask the women and gays in your family.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 08-20-2017 4:24 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13622
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 22 of 86 (817893)
08-21-2017 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
08-20-2017 4:24 PM


Re: Sacrificial We Are (as wannabe gods)
Phat writes:

If Jesus, of all people, didn't do that much good what possible value is it in being a far left idealist liberal who prides himself on giving spare change to the misbegotten in town and who preaches that we all should help the working class up the economic ladder even if at our own expense?


You're the one who's shooting himself in the foot. It's because Jesus didn't do much that we have to do it.

Phat writes:

Just when I think you understand the value of helping the least of these, I somehow find you stubbornly failing to defend the source which makes it all possible....


The value of helping people doesn't come from some woo-woo "source". The value of helping people is self-contained.

Phat writes:

....unless of course, you believe that we all are our own source and that it is a good thing to put our own futures on hold simply to bring the working class a bit closer to an ideal that we ourselves should ignore!


Yes, I believe we are the only source of good for humanity. You should know that about me by now.

And I'm not asking you to ignore your own future. I'm asking you not to spend it wiping your feet on that homeless guy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 08-20-2017 4:24 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13622
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 23 of 86 (817894)
08-21-2017 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Greatest I am
08-20-2017 7:50 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Greatest I am writes:

Tell me, if the person who has what it takes to help another who needs it, and he is no fitter than the one he is helping, then the one being helped is not worthy or requiring help as he is as fit as the helpful one. Right?


Wrong. The one who is more fit in one situation may be less fit in another. We help each other; it isn't a one-way street. That's how a society works. There's no divide between the fit helpers and the unfit helpees.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Greatest I am, posted 08-20-2017 7:50 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Greatest I am, posted 08-21-2017 1:57 PM ringo has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1422
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 24 of 86 (817902)
08-21-2017 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by ringo
08-21-2017 12:55 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Ringo

Yes there is a divide between the helpful and fittest and those who need help to be more fit.

The divide is taxpayer and tax taker.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by ringo, posted 08-21-2017 12:55 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by ringo, posted 08-22-2017 11:38 AM Greatest I am has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13622
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 25 of 86 (817986)
08-22-2017 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Greatest I am
08-21-2017 1:57 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Greatest I am writes:

Yes there is a divide between the helpful and fittest and those who need help to be more fit.

The divide is taxpayer and tax taker.


What does that have to do with fitness? The tax takers are taxpayers too.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Greatest I am, posted 08-21-2017 1:57 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Greatest I am, posted 08-22-2017 11:46 AM ringo has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1422
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 26 of 86 (817988)
08-22-2017 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by ringo
08-22-2017 11:38 AM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Ringo

Would you prefer to be a tax payer or a tax taker?

The reasons you would rather be a tax payer than on the dole are the reasons that you are more fit, if you are a tax payer, than those who are slaved to tax payers for their sustenance.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by ringo, posted 08-22-2017 11:38 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by ringo, posted 08-22-2017 12:33 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13622
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 27 of 86 (817993)
08-22-2017 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Greatest I am
08-22-2017 11:46 AM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Greatest I am writes:

Would you prefer to be a tax payer or a tax taker?


It makes no difference. Tax takers have to pay taxes too - and both are recipients of the benefits of taxes. Fitness is irrelevant.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Greatest I am, posted 08-22-2017 11:46 AM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Greatest I am, posted 09-03-2017 2:33 PM ringo has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1422
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 28 of 86 (818852)
09-03-2017 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by ringo
08-22-2017 12:33 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
True, but tax payers end with cash in the bank instead of bothing in the bank.

If you do not see the benefits of tax paying versus tax taking then you are rather blind.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by ringo, posted 08-22-2017 12:33 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 09-04-2017 1:04 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13622
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 29 of 86 (818950)
09-04-2017 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Greatest I am
09-03-2017 2:33 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
I thought you said the opposite, that tax collectors have the advantage.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Greatest I am, posted 09-03-2017 2:33 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Greatest I am, posted 09-04-2017 5:10 PM ringo has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1422
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 30 of 86 (818964)
09-04-2017 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by ringo
09-04-2017 1:04 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
No.

Tax takers, not tax collectors, are at the mercy of the generosity of the state. I do not see that as an advantage.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 09-04-2017 1:04 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by ringo, posted 09-05-2017 11:39 AM Greatest I am has responded

    
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