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Author Topic:   Revolting middle class. If the rich keep funding war with the lives of the lower clas
Greatest I am
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Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 61 of 86 (819399)
09-10-2017 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by ringo
09-10-2017 2:07 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
The judgement of fitness is subjective.

The fact that there is a fittest human is objective.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by ringo, posted 09-10-2017 2:07 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by ringo, posted 09-10-2017 3:52 PM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 71 by ProtoTypical, posted 09-13-2017 2:53 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13639
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 62 of 86 (819400)
09-10-2017 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Greatest I am
09-10-2017 3:37 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Greatest I am writes:

The fact that there is a fittest human is objective.


Then tell us how you determine that objectively.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Greatest I am, posted 09-10-2017 3:37 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Greatest I am, posted 09-10-2017 3:56 PM ringo has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 63 of 86 (819401)
09-10-2017 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by ringo
09-10-2017 3:52 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Via subjective judgement.

How else can one differentiate between contestants?

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by ringo, posted 09-10-2017 3:52 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by ringo, posted 09-11-2017 11:37 AM Greatest I am has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13639
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 64 of 86 (819463)
09-11-2017 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Greatest I am
09-10-2017 3:56 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Greatest I am writes:

Via subjective judgement.


If the method is subjective, the conclusion is subjective.

Greatest I am writes:

How else can one differentiate between contestants?


Objectively you can't, which is what I've been saying all along.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Greatest I am, posted 09-10-2017 3:56 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Greatest I am, posted 09-11-2017 12:26 PM ringo has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 65 of 86 (819466)
09-11-2017 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by ringo
09-11-2017 11:37 AM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Seems we agree on your last.

Not on your first in all cases.

The needs or good of the many outweigh the needs or good of the few must be judged subjectively but I think, since the conclusion is always for it. that might just be the only objective moral tenet I can think of.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by ringo, posted 09-11-2017 11:37 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by ringo, posted 09-11-2017 12:28 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13639
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 66 of 86 (819467)
09-11-2017 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Greatest I am
09-11-2017 12:26 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Greatest I am writes:

The needs or good of the many outweigh the needs or good of the few must be judged subjectively but I think, since the conclusion is always for it. that might just be the only objective moral tenet I can think of.


There is nothing more subjective than "the needs of the many".
This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Greatest I am, posted 09-11-2017 12:26 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Greatest I am, posted 09-11-2017 2:12 PM ringo has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 67 of 86 (819474)
09-11-2017 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by ringo
09-11-2017 12:28 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
That is what I just said, yes.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by ringo, posted 09-11-2017 12:28 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by ringo, posted 09-12-2017 11:36 AM Greatest I am has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13639
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 68 of 86 (819534)
09-12-2017 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Greatest I am
09-11-2017 2:12 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Greatest I am writes:

That is what I just said, yes.


So your whole premise about "fitness" is dead.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Greatest I am, posted 09-11-2017 2:12 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Greatest I am, posted 09-12-2017 4:03 PM ringo has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 69 of 86 (819556)
09-12-2017 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by ringo
09-12-2017 11:36 AM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Eh, not that I can see.

How did you get to that from where we were?

Show the logic trail. Perhaps I missed something.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by ringo, posted 09-12-2017 11:36 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by ringo, posted 09-13-2017 3:50 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
ramoss
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Posts: 3039
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 70 of 86 (819572)
09-12-2017 11:37 PM


The revolting middles class, huh


  
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1753
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 71 of 86 (819621)
09-13-2017 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Greatest I am
09-10-2017 3:37 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
The judgement of fitness is subjective.

The fact that there is a fittest human is objective.


An individual is either fit or they are not. They either survive long enough to reproduce or they do not. There is nothing subjective about it and there isn't really a gradient to it.

Society is that part of our environment that we create over time and manipulate in order to improve everyone's odds of being fit. The fact that there are members of society who are wealthier than others might show that they have already benefited from what society provides. The mechanism requires that they put back into it and perhaps the real drain on society comes from those that refuse to do so.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Greatest I am, posted 09-10-2017 3:37 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Greatest I am, posted 09-14-2017 9:26 AM ProtoTypical has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13639
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 72 of 86 (819629)
09-13-2017 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Greatest I am
09-12-2017 4:03 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Greatest I am writes:

Show the logic trail.


You admitted it was all subjective. QED.

Now YOU show the logic that bridges from subjective opinions to objective conclusions. Show us how you get reliable conclusions from unfounded premises.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Greatest I am, posted 09-12-2017 4:03 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Greatest I am, posted 09-14-2017 9:28 AM ringo has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 73 of 86 (819725)
09-14-2017 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by ProtoTypical
09-13-2017 2:53 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
ProtoTypical

"An individual is either fit or they are not. They either survive long enough to reproduce or they do not. There is nothing subjective about it and there isn't really a gradient to it."

If alive, all have a level of fitness. I do not think we can say that someone has no level of fitness when they are fit enough to survive.

Reproduction is important to the whole species of course but in our human one, individual reproduction is not paramount or required by our fittest metrics, which is usually determined by other factors such as wealth, which a fittest could pass on to his family so as to increase their fitness and allow them to reproduce if they are fit in that area.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by ProtoTypical, posted 09-13-2017 2:53 PM ProtoTypical has not yet responded

    
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 74 of 86 (819726)
09-14-2017 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by ringo
09-13-2017 3:50 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Ringo

What unfounded premise?

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by ringo, posted 09-13-2017 3:50 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by ringo, posted 09-14-2017 11:35 AM Greatest I am has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13639
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 75 of 86 (819733)
09-14-2017 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Greatest I am
09-14-2017 9:28 AM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Greatest I am writes:

What unfounded premise?


The premise that you can tell who is "fit" and who is not. You admitted that the judgement was subjective; therefore the premise is unfounded.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Greatest I am, posted 09-14-2017 9:28 AM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Greatest I am, posted 09-14-2017 12:15 PM ringo has responded

  
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