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Author Topic:   Decline And Fall Of The American Empire
jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 16 of 145 (818618)
08-31-2017 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Diomedes
08-31-2017 9:23 AM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
So why not open the borders, encourage immigration and maintain a large enough workforce to cover any loss of people paying into the system.

Of course, that will also require that there is a job in the US that pays enough for the taxes to fund the system.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Diomedes, posted 08-31-2017 9:23 AM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Diomedes, posted 08-31-2017 9:44 AM jar has responded
 Message 21 by Taq, posted 08-31-2017 12:36 PM jar has responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 662
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 17 of 145 (818619)
08-31-2017 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
08-31-2017 9:36 AM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
So why not open the borders, encourage immigration and maintain a large enough workforce to cover any loss of people paying into the system.
Of course, that will also require that there is a job in the US that pays enough for the taxes to fund the system.

You'll get no argument form me. I am an immigrant to the USA.

The whole anti-immigration stance by some on the far right is just a giant red herring. The USA has been built on immigration and some of the best and brightest of our citizens have roots from other countries. Although note that most of the anti-immigration stances seem to be relegated to those of Hispanic or Arab descent. Right-wingers don't seem to have too many problems with white immigrants from Europe.

As you said, there does need to be a job here. How the labor market will look like in 30-40 years is anyone's guess. The bigger issue is how automation is going to change what types of jobs are available. That was the big lie told to those in the rust belt by the likes of Trump. That their jobs were taken over by immigrants or shipped over seas. While some of that has occurred, something like 80% of the jobs that disappeared were due to automation.

By the way, for you sci fi buffs, the TV show The Expanse has this a plot point. In the future, Earth is over-populated (30 billion or so) and the majority of people don't work. They are on some form of government assistance. And the main culprit was automation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 9:36 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 18 of 145 (818621)
08-31-2017 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Diomedes
08-31-2017 9:44 AM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
Diomedes writes:

Right-wingers don't seem to have too many problems with white immigrants from Europe.

As long as they are not white spicks or kikes or wops or ... SOCIALISTs & COMMUNISTs & LIBERALs!

It's time that we started taking the Gross Domestic Product to mean something all in the US should share.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 9756
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 19 of 145 (818630)
08-31-2017 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
08-31-2017 10:03 AM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
It's time that we started taking the Gross Domestic Product to mean something all in the US should share.

What do you mean? Sounds like another bill to me....

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 10:03 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 12:53 PM Phat has responded

  
Taq
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Posts: 7140
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 20 of 145 (818633)
08-31-2017 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Diomedes
08-31-2017 9:23 AM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
Diomedes writes:

As a Gen Xer, I've been told that when I am at the age of retirement, I will likely be getting 75-80% of what my expected benefits were supposed to be. This stems from the fact that social security is paid to the previous generation by the current generation. Being that population demographics will shift towards being older as the boomers retire, that will mean insufficient income from taxes to compensate for the larger number of retired people.

Being of the same generation, I get what you are saying. I am also saving money for retirement.

It is also worth noting that they can increase taxes at any point so that people can get more benefits. It's not as if the current rates are a physical law that can't be broken. One of the first things they could do is get rid of the rule where only the first 100k or so of your income is taxed for Social Security.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Diomedes, posted 08-31-2017 9:23 AM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 7140
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 21 of 145 (818634)
08-31-2017 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
08-31-2017 9:36 AM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
jar writes:

So why not open the borders, encourage immigration and maintain a large enough workforce to cover any loss of people paying into the system.
Of course, that will also require that there is a job in the US that pays enough for the taxes to fund the system.

As with many things, moderation is key. You don't want to flood the job market with new people. This will only depress wages and put stresses on unemployment benefits. You need to match immigration with the growth rate of the economy.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 9:36 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 12:56 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 22 of 145 (818637)
08-31-2017 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
08-31-2017 12:11 PM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
Do you know what the GDP is?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 08-31-2017 12:11 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 08-31-2017 4:25 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 23 of 145 (818638)
08-31-2017 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Taq
08-31-2017 12:36 PM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
And with the real employment situation.

What is really need is something not seen in the US since the late 50s and early 60s and that is Long Term Planning. Without planning that goes beyond the 5 O'clock News or the next election cycle I see absolutely no reason to think anything will get done at all.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Taq, posted 08-31-2017 12:36 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
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Posts: 662
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 4.4


(3)
Message 24 of 145 (818643)
08-31-2017 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Taq
08-31-2017 12:31 PM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
It is also worth noting that they can increase taxes at any point so that people can get more benefits. It's not as if the current rates are a physical law that can't be broken. One of the first things they could do is get rid of the rule where only the first 100k or so of your income is taxed for Social Security.

True. However, the Republicans are pretty intransigent in that regard. Anytime raising taxes is on the table, the idea is thoroughly rebuffed. And we have a population that doesn't seem to understand the concept of positive cash flow. They are continuously parroting 'trickle down economics' and other nonsense that has been touted for years. They want all their benefits but they don't want a raise in taxes. It is a disconnect of logic and unfortunately, my guess is it will be too little too late for an adequate fix to occur.

To be fair, while we are sounding somewhat 'doom and gloom', as others have alluded to, other countries are in far more dire straights than the USA. Germany and Japan have much larger shifts in age demographics over the next few decades. And that is nothing to say of China. They have been on the one child policy for decades and have only undone that recently. But that sort of mandate pretty much guarantees that they will have a huge burden of an aged and aging population relative to the younger population. Not to mention they are not exactly a sought after location for migration.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Taq, posted 08-31-2017 12:31 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Taq, posted 08-31-2017 3:34 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7140
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 25 of 145 (818646)
08-31-2017 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Diomedes
08-31-2017 2:20 PM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
Diomedes writes:

To be fair, while we are sounding somewhat 'doom and gloom', as others have alluded to, other countries are in far more dire straights than the USA. Germany and Japan have much larger shifts in age demographics over the next few decades. And that is nothing to say of China. They have been on the one child policy for decades and have only undone that recently. But that sort of mandate pretty much guarantees that they will have a huge burden of an aged and aging population relative to the younger population. Not to mention they are not exactly a sought after location for migration.

In many Asian cultures it is customary for parents to move in with their kids and grandkids as they get on in years, so at least they have that going for them. Western cultures may have to follow suit.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Diomedes, posted 08-31-2017 2:20 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9756
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 26 of 145 (818647)
08-31-2017 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by jar
08-31-2017 12:53 PM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
Gross Domestic Product.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 12:53 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 7:26 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 27 of 145 (818666)
08-31-2017 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Phat
08-31-2017 4:25 PM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
Those are the words. What do they mean?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 08-31-2017 4:25 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 08-31-2017 9:16 PM jar has responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5533
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


(3)
Message 28 of 145 (818674)
08-31-2017 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Phat
08-30-2017 4:48 PM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
That is too early according to most analysts. They peg 2003--the year the gulf war started---as the final nail in the coffin.

I would put it at 1980 -- the year that Ronald Reagan was elected.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 9756
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 29 of 145 (818678)
08-31-2017 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
08-31-2017 7:26 PM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
the total value of goods produced and services provided in a country during one year. So why do you want us to all share it? To me, it sounds as if we are also responsible for it...which seems like a bill somehow.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 7:26 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 9:19 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 30 of 145 (818679)
08-31-2017 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Phat
08-31-2017 9:16 PM


Re: Bye Bye Global Reserve Currency
Phat writes:

the total value of goods produced and services provided in a country during one year.

What does the word value mean?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 08-31-2017 9:16 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Phat, posted 08-31-2017 9:32 PM jar has responded

  
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