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Author Topic:   "Natural" (plant-based) Health Solutions
Faith
Member
Posts: 26790
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 166 of 316 (820458)
09-21-2017 3:09 AM


Supplements
Just for the one person who stumbles into EvC for ten minutes some day and happens to see it and be curious rather than outraged at the very thought that anybody would try alternative health treatments:

This is Chris Wark's 9th talk of his series of ten on nutritional and other treatments that might help with cancer. As with all of them it's only up for 24 hours, and this one started about six hours ago.

This one is on various supplements that are known to be good for your health and even cancer. Such as Aloe Vera, Amla powder, Moringa, Black seed oil, Colloidal Silver, Curcumin, various teas and so on. Many have been studied and he discusses the studies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1351&v=B4DyXl...

I'm just going to put up the reference for now but I'll try to come back later and write out some of his information if I can. My feeling is that if I ever feel I need special health boosters in huge doses for whatever reason, I'm going with carrot juice because I can't afford much else and sorting through all the possibilities is more than I'm up to.

But I'd love to see some really good research done on all these things. Some has been done here and there but it needs an independent agency to take it on and it needs heavy funding.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


    
ringo
Member
Posts: 14002
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 167 of 316 (820485)
09-21-2017 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by ProtoTypical
09-20-2017 5:54 PM


Re: There's enough here to show a need for some real research
ProtoTypical writes:

If I were diagnosed with cancer today would it be unwise to delay chemotherapy for 2 months while I drank a shitload of carrot juice?


Yes.

And if you had a heart attack today it would be unwise to wave a chicken over your head before calling an ambulance.


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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1360
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 168 of 316 (820502)
09-21-2017 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Faith
09-18-2017 2:49 PM


Re: Carrot juice
[qs]Well, I'm a big fan of carrot juice and I do believe the anecdotes about its curing some cancers. There are just too many such stories to ignore. It would be very nice if somebody did a controlled experiment with it of course and I hope somebody will get around to it.one of the most recent studies had promising results with one candidate.

It's not like carrots have been ignored by the scientific community.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Faith, posted 09-18-2017 2:49 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Faith, posted 09-21-2017 3:11 PM caffeine has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26790
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 169 of 316 (820504)
09-21-2017 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by caffeine
09-21-2017 2:55 PM


Re: Carrot juice
I'm not aware of studies of carrots, you are? What results are you aware of?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by caffeine, posted 09-21-2017 2:55 PM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by caffeine, posted 09-22-2017 12:04 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26790
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 170 of 316 (820520)
09-22-2017 1:35 AM


Back to the Starch Diet Solution
Nutritional theories and regimens can be pretty frustrating because there are so many experts out there who don't all agree on various aspects of what constitutes a healthy diet. There does seem to be a general agreement these days that a vegan approach is better than others, emphasizing raw vegetables and fruits and cutting back severely on both meat and dairy. Not just in relation to cancer or any specific disease, but to promote general health.

This vegan trend certainly sharply contrasts with the ketogenic or Atkins-style weight loss diet with its severe reduction in carbohydrates and acceptance of animal proteins and fats. I found that diet to be almost miraculous in its ability to take off weight, especially since it allows so many popular foods that on other diets have always been prohibited, such as bacon.

But I've also found over time that I have carb cravings that I've given into, which when combined with the fats allowed on the Atkins-style regime have caused me to put on a lot of weight. This has been so discouraging I've just about given up on doing any kind of dieting any more. I've stopped caring. It's too hard, and I don't know how to go about it at this point since I know I'm going to be overcome by the carb cravings if I try to give them up again.

This hasn't stopped me from pursuing a general interest in health-promoting foods, which is what this thread is about, but even though what I'm learning has led me to make some changes in my eating habits it's not enough to take weight off and I'm still stuck. I don't eat sugar for instance except for the occasional small indulgence, and I still try to avoid the worst "simple" carbs, and I've gone back to juicing veggies though only from time to time. I've lost a small amount of weight over the last year but too small to be any kind of inspiration.

I've found the anti-cancer recommendations like Chris Wark's to be persuasive, though it hasn't done much to motivate me either. And then today in checking out some more of his presentations I ran across a couple of interviews he did with John McDougall, the M.D. I mentioned some time back who invented the Starch Diet Solution. As far as you can get from Atkins and other ketogenic diets. And he hates Atkins, he thinks it's dangerous for the people who follow it and dangerous for the planet. Sigh.

Now I'm trying to find out more about his diet because Wark seems to think it fits with his own views.

Makes me want to eat six pounds of crispy bacon and a quart of Haagen Dazs. Sigh.

OK, so I get it. Most standard diets around the world major in starches. "Bread is the staff of life" etc. And I have to admit that this always bothered me about the ketogenic elimination of such basic starches. Rice is the staff of life in Asia, corn in Mexico and so on. In Asia the rice is eaten with vegetables, while meat is a very small part of any meal. As McDougall describes it the more prosperous a nation grows the more the standard diet starts incorporating the luxury meats and fats of royalty and as a result even the poorest people are getting the "diseases of kings" such as gout for instance.

If he'd just say let's eat more starches and veggies and cut back on the meats I guess I'd see the wisdom in that. But of course like all experts he has to go on and demonize some foods. He demonizes oils for instance, and the reason he gives is that they are separated from their source food. For the same reason he opposes carrot juice, thinks we need the fiber.

My answer to the carrot juice complaint is that it should be regarded more as a medicine to correct conditions brought about by poor diets. You can only eat so many carrots but you can consume enormous amounts of carrot juice, and it's those enormous amounts that have the beneficial effects on health problems and even cancers.

As for oil here's where I remember the foods described in the Bible and oil is treated there pretty much as a staple. There is nothing wrong with oil as such though there are probably some bad oils that are overprocessed that we could do without today.

Also when I looked into McDougall's recipes I found they are way too complicated for me: something like six or seven different grains are combined and cooked together for breakfast.

I'm sure I'll be learning more about his thinking as well as Chris Wark's and maybe other vegan protocols, and who knows, maybe if I ever arrive at a diet I think I can live with his views may contribute to it.

For now I'm an armchair nutrition student.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10127
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 171 of 316 (820523)
09-22-2017 2:07 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Faith
09-22-2017 1:35 AM


Re: Back to the Starch Diet Solution
Nutritional theories and regimens can be pretty frustrating because there are so many experts out there who don't all agree on various aspects of what constitutes a healthy diet.

I totally agree.

Just wanted an opportunity to say something like that to you.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1360
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 172 of 316 (820537)
09-22-2017 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Faith
09-21-2017 3:11 PM


Re: Carrot juice
I'm not aware of studies of carrots, you are? What results are you aware of?

Bizarrely, I somehow seem to have deleted most of my previous post; but what I was writing was that I went to Google Scholar and searched for carrots+cancer - there is an enormous amount of research out there dating back decades. The evidence seems to suggest that regular consumption of carrots lowers the risk of cancer and can slow the progress of tumours.

Now the focus is on finding out what it is in carrots that's doing. That's what the study I linked to in the last post was about. They took a bunch of mice, some of which were fed food rich in certain chemicals extracted from carrots; some the same diet without. They then dosed them with a carcinogen. The mice fed with the carrot extract had less and smaller tumours than the others.

Nothing to suggest that carrot juice can actually cure cancer, though.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Faith, posted 09-21-2017 3:11 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Faith, posted 09-22-2017 12:41 PM caffeine has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26790
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 173 of 316 (820540)
09-22-2017 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by caffeine
09-22-2017 12:04 PM


Re: Carrot juice
Thanks. Positive results for carrots. But it doesn't sound like anywhere near the amount of carrot juice people are consuming as part of their alternative cancer therapy was tested.

(I sometimes accidentally type a square bracket somewhere in a message and if I don't catch it everything after that bracket won't show up in the message. Could be you did that and lost what you'd written?)

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Faith
Member
Posts: 26790
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 174 of 316 (820770)
09-27-2017 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Faith
09-22-2017 1:35 AM


Re: Back to the Starch Diet Solution
Wow, I think I'm gravitating to this starch-based diet, John McDougall's Starch Solution. When I first heard of it I thought Oh no not another totally off the wall diet that contradicts all the other diets . It couldn't be more contrary to the Atkins ketogenic style diets I had come to believe were the only way to lose weight, and healthiest too -- despite all the scare talk tests do show that bad lipids are lowered, people do lose weight etc.

The only reason I'm reconsidering it is that I personally can't do it any more, I can't give up carbs. So I pretty much gave up on ever being able to lose weight again.

And at first I figured I'd have the same problem with the McDougall Starch Solution diet, because you always have to give up something and in this case that something is fats and meats. I think I can give up meat, at least eat a lot less of it without missing it, but could I really give up fats? Even supposedly good oils like olive oil? It just sounds wrong. Oils are NOT an unnatural food, which McDougall seems to be saying, and the way I decide that these days is by asking what people ate in Old Testament time, and oil is treated as a staple there.

However, I've been coming to the conclusion that you can't eat BOTH fats and carbs unless you eat them in very strict moderation. Atkins made it clear fats are not a problem if you are restricting carbs, and I can only assume at this point that McDougall can recommend such a high carb diet as healthy and good for weight loss because it restricts fats. It seems to be one or the other.

So here I am considering doing this diet. And the reason is that I could really LIKE it. I could like eating potatoes for the biggest portion on my plate. I have to remember that I liked Atkins because bacon and eggs with no carbs appealed to me that much back then. So what's really different now? Maybe just the chance to indulge the carb cravings Atkins left me with. In which case this diet will fail too in the end. But I'm truly incapable of doing anything else right now. I can't do Atkins and I can't seem to cut down enough on the overall food I eat to make a difference either. It's not that I'm eating some huge amount of calories, but it's too much anyway, so to lose by reducing calories would leave me hungry.

Now here's McDougall telling me my meals should be 70 to 90 percent starch, and he isn't requiring me to eat starches I'm not particularly fond of, he says you can choose whatever starches you want. I can choose my all-time favorite food, potatoes. At first I thought I couldn't learn to eat potatoes without butter or other fat, but the more I read, and experiment too, I'm coming to the conclusion that I could after all. If I have to give up fats, the only thing I could give them up FOR is potatoes, but I'm discovering that fats aren't as necessary as I'd thought: there are lots of ways to flavor potatoes that are just as attractive.

I also want to up the carrot juice. McDougall doesn't approve of juicing, as with oils he thinks you should have only whole foods, but I've become convinced that carrot juice is a healer of all kinds of things and I know I have some kind of liver and stomach problems, so I'm going to add the carrot juice to the basically vegan starch-based diet and see what happens.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 10257
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 175 of 316 (820777)
09-27-2017 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by Faith
09-27-2017 8:09 AM


Re: Back to the Starch Diet Solution
For the record, my attempt this summer of getting onto a ketogenic, low carb diet succeeded for three weeks and then I relapsed. Im trying to find balance and sanity in my approach, yet feel that low carb is the solution for my body type and diabetic insulin resistance.

Glad to see you back, by the way. I even read some of your online blogs and must say that you tell it as you see it! Hope you don't mind if I quote some of your blogs in my attempts to frame the YEC topic.

Hopefully, you can find some peace in this diet topic and not have to become frustrated and typing in all caps! I'm going to get involved in the EvC debate for the first time since I joined here 14 years ago. Like you, my body is wearing out and betraying me. I need a diet that I can live with for life~!


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
An atheist is someone who has no invisible means of support~Bishop Fulton J.Sheen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Faith, posted 09-27-2017 8:09 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 26790
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 176 of 316 (820785)
09-27-2017 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Phat
09-27-2017 9:43 AM


Re: Back to the Starch Diet Solution
Phat, I really wish you would not quote my blogs here. I don't want to have to debate them on top of what I write here. Please.

If you can't stick to the ketogenic diet after giving it a good try or few more tries take a look at McDougall's arguments for a starch-based diet. He does claim it works for diabetes too. I know it sounds weird after what we've been told for so long and I'm sure there are some glitches in his thinking too, there always are in any system, but the more I've pondered it the more I like it. Of course until I stick to it for a while I won't be able to judge it properly.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Phat, posted 09-27-2017 9:43 AM Phat has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26790
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 177 of 316 (821244)
10-04-2017 12:48 PM


Sign up for Alternative Cancer Healing Conference
There's going to be a three-day conference on alternative methods of healing cancer online starting tomorrow. It's free but if a few of you sign up I can maybe get a reward for snaring you into it.

Even if you hate this stuff you can sign up and jeer or gather ammunition against them.

Here's the link:

The Truth About Cancer Conference

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Faith, posted 10-05-2017 10:27 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26790
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 178 of 316 (821299)
10-05-2017 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by Faith
10-04-2017 12:48 PM


Re: Sign up for Alternative Cancer Healing Conference
The conference is underway and I'm really fascinated with it. Tons of research is being discussed, this isn't snake oil stuff. I could make this my career if I had the time to put into it.

https://go.thetruthaboutcancer.com/2017-live-event/?ref=6...

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 13392
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 179 of 316 (821305)
10-05-2017 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Faith
10-05-2017 10:27 AM


Re: Sign up for Alternative Cancer Healing Conference
quote:

...this isn't snake oil stuff

I rather doubt that:


Dr. Rashid Buttar presents 7 Advanced Strategies for Healing Cancer Naturally, without drugs, chemo, and radiation.

Joseph Mercola, too, which is a big red flag.


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Pressie
Member
Posts: 1858
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 180 of 316 (821348)
10-06-2017 6:40 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by PaulK
10-05-2017 11:10 AM


Re: Sign up for Alternative Cancer Healing Conference
And David Jockers. I think that there should be some law prohibiting clowns to keep on pretending to be real Doctors. All snake oil stuff.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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