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Author Topic:   "Natural" (plant-based) Health Solutions
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9991
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 196 of 245 (821469)
10-08-2017 9:40 AM


Registered Dietician Nutritionist
Are dieticians trained?

Yeah, there are some untrained folks who can fool the public, but what about those folks who operate at real medical places.

http://www.eatrightpro.org/...istered-dietitian-nutritionist

"Registered Dietitian Nutritionists (RDNs) are food and nutrition experts who have met the following criteria to earn the RDN credential:

Completed a minimum of a bachelor’s degree at a US regionally accredited university or college and course work accredited or approved by the Accreditation Council for Education in Nutrition and Dietetics (ACEND) of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics.
Completed an ACEND-accredited supervised practice program at a health-care facility, community agency, or a foodservice corporation or combined with undergraduate or graduate studies. Typically, a practice program will run six to 12 months in length.

Passed a national examination administered by the Commission on Dietetic Registration (CDR). For more information regarding the examination, refer to CDR’s website at www.cdrnet.org.

Completed continuing professional educational requirements to maintain registration."

https://lifestylemedicalcenters.com/.../registered-dietitian

"Registered Dietitians (credential R.D.) are leading experts in food and nutrition. Although many people claim to be nutrition experts or may even call themselves “nutritionists”, only Registered Dietitians have completed rigorous academic and real-world training approved by the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics’ Accreditation Council for Education in Nutrition and Dietetics (ACEND). Becoming an RD requires a 4-year Bachelor’s Degree plus at least 1200 hours of supervised training, followed by passing a national examination. RD’s may be very different than individuals who advertise themselves as “Nutritionists” or “Nutrition Coaches”. Some Nutrition certifications are weekend-long programs and no true scientific expertise. For top-tier scientific and medically-based nutrition counseling, be sure to seek out a Registered Dietitian."

Some folks will say anything without even checking as long as it is in defense of some nonsense they believe.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Faith, posted 10-08-2017 9:43 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 197 of 245 (821470)
10-08-2017 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by NoNukes
10-08-2017 9:40 AM


Re: Registered Dietician Nutritionist
Actually I did check and they do not have MEDICAL training which is what GM implied.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by NoNukes, posted 10-08-2017 9:40 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Granny Magda, posted 10-08-2017 9:52 AM Faith has responded

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2338
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 198 of 245 (821471)
10-08-2017 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Faith
10-08-2017 9:15 AM


Re: Truth About Cancer Conference is over
Remarkable post that, without a shred of evidence for anything you say, just a lot of assertions.

How much evidence did Ty Bolinger provide for his inane lie about 97% of chemo patients dying within five years?

Dietitians are medically trained?

Yes. Registered dietitians must be properly trained to use the title. This is a legally protected professional term, with its own professional bodies. Anyone can call themselves a nutritionist. Dr Ben Goldacre registered his dead cat as a certified professional member of the American Association of Nutritional Consultants. To become a registered dietitian, you actually have to do the work.

Doctors get training in nutrition?

Yes. For example;

quote:
Harvard Medical School developed the Division of Nutrition in 1996 in order to establish nutrition as a discipline. The purpose of this Division was to coordinate nutrition activities between the medical school and the Harvard teaching hospitals, including research, teaching, postgraduate education and patient care.

Source; http://nutrition.med.harvard.edu/

How much training?

How much do you feel would be enough? More than frauds like Bolinger, who has had no formal training in any medical field?

And there was plenty of cited research.

Cite it then. Don't hide your light under a bushel Faith, share these incredible insights with us. Are they as reliable as claims like "Nobody dies from the cancer"?

I missed the talk about fungus, have no idea what the guy said

Check it out;

quote:
Tullio Simoncini (born 1951) is an Italian former physician and alternative medicine advocate. He holds a Ph.D. in philosophy from La Sapienza University. He is known for claiming that cancer is caused by the fungus Candida albicans, and has gone so far as to say that cancer is actually a form of candida overgrowth.[1] He also says that cancer can be cured with injections of sodium bicarbonate.[2][3] He says that he was formerly an oncologist, but that he was struck off because he prescribed sodium bicarbonate instead of conventional chemotherapy.[4]

The mainstream medical community has rejected Simoncini's hypothesis, citing a lack of peer-reviewed studies that support its use.[5] Quackwatch lists sodium bicarbonate injections as a "dubious treatment."[6]

Simoncini was tried and found guilty of fraud and manslaughter in 2006 after a patient died after using Simoncini's treatment.[7]


Source; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tullio_Simoncini

Simoncini is a dangerous fraud and a complete asshole.

The history given by G Edward Griffin was very interesting,

Another loon. Griffin is a promoter of amygdalin, another failed and debunked cancer treatment. He is fond of bonkers conspiracy theories and this appears no different.

Do you intend to address the lies told by Bolinger? Or are you content to stand by him as he lies to cancer patients?

Mutate and Survive


This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 10-08-2017 9:15 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by Faith, posted 10-08-2017 9:49 AM Granny Magda has responded

    
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 199 of 245 (821472)
10-08-2017 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by Granny Magda
10-08-2017 9:43 AM


Re: Truth About Cancer Conference is over
Having a Division of Nutrition says nothing about what training in nutrition MDs get, which is generally understood to be little to none, and having to have training to be a dietitian says nothing about what sort of training and what connection there is with the medical profession.

I mentioned somewhere on this thread my experience in a rehab facility in which the food served us was not only unappetizing, it contradicted even mainstream knowledge of good nutrition, and over time could kill a person IMO. I assume the "nutritionist" who planned the food service had some sort of credentials for the job. Perhaps she was in fact a Dietitian, and if so it doesn't speak well for that profession.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Granny Magda, posted 10-08-2017 9:43 AM Granny Magda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Granny Magda, posted 10-08-2017 9:59 AM Faith has responded

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2338
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 200 of 245 (821473)
10-08-2017 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 197 by Faith
10-08-2017 9:43 AM


Re: Registered Dietician Nutritionist
Actually I did check and they do not have MEDICAL training which is what GM implied.

Of course they have medical training. They are trained in a medical field, thus medical training, to a professional standard.

Dietitians are not doctors, I didn't intend to imply that they were, but they are nonetheless trained medical professionals.

As to actual doctors, nutrition is a standard part of their advice. Every time a doctor tells you to lose weight, they are giving you medical advice on nutrition. And I already showed you a prestigious medical school that teaches doctors nutrition. So yeah, doctors do use nutrition. The attempts to claim otherwise are yet another example of the endless attempts by alt-med quacks to co-opt real medicine and re-brand it as exclusively theirs. It's nonsense.

Mutate and Survive

Mutate and Survive


On two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Faith, posted 10-08-2017 9:43 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Faith, posted 10-08-2017 9:55 AM Granny Magda has responded

    
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 201 of 245 (821474)
10-08-2017 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by Granny Magda
10-08-2017 9:52 AM


Re: Registered Dietician Nutritionist
The level of advice about nutrition I'm familiar with from doctors is awfully low, not even as good as granma's knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Granny Magda, posted 10-08-2017 9:52 AM Granny Magda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Granny Magda, posted 10-08-2017 10:01 AM Faith has responded

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2338
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 202 of 245 (821475)
10-08-2017 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by Faith
10-08-2017 9:49 AM


Re: Truth About Cancer Conference is over
Having a Division of Nutrition says nothing about what training in nutrition MDs get,

You claimed that doctors get no training in nutrition.

Faith writes:

nutrition, which is an area of study doctors are simply not trained in.

That was false. Doctors are trained in nutrition, that's why goddamn Harvard built a dedicated nutrition centre. What do you imagine they do there all day?

Your false claim is debunked. Admit your error.

and having to have training to be a dietitian says nothing about what sort of training and what connection there is with the medical profession.

They are the medical profession! They are medical professionals with a formal accreditation body. How are they not medical?

Mutate and Survive


On two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Faith, posted 10-08-2017 9:49 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 10-08-2017 10:23 AM Granny Magda has responded

    
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2338
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 203 of 245 (821476)
10-08-2017 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by Faith
10-08-2017 9:55 AM


Re: Registered Dietician Nutritionist
The level of advice about nutrition I'm familiar with from doctors is awfully low, not even as good as granma's knowledge.

Your doctor never told you to lose weight?

Mutate and Survive


On two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Faith, posted 10-08-2017 9:55 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 10-08-2017 10:14 AM Granny Magda has responded

    
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 204 of 245 (821478)
10-08-2017 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by Granny Magda
10-08-2017 10:01 AM


Re: Registered Dietician Nutritionist
You consider advice to lose weight evidence of training in nutrition? That's pretty funny.

I keep remembering Chris Wark's interview with a former oncology nurse who talked about how drugs were the treatment for cancer wherever she worked. One patient had sores in his mouth that she knew from somewhere could be cured with vitamin C, and IV vitamin C IS prescribed sometimes but not in this case, though eventually she got it prescribed and the sores cleared up. Seems to me real knowledge of nutrition would lead a doctor to know such things already.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Granny Magda, posted 10-08-2017 10:01 AM Granny Magda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Granny Magda, posted 10-08-2017 10:51 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 205 of 245 (821479)
10-08-2017 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 202 by Granny Magda
10-08-2017 9:59 AM


Re: Truth About Cancer Conference is over
That was false. Doctors are trained in nutrition, that's why goddamn Harvard built a dedicated nutrition centre. What do you imagine they do there all day?

You don't say Harvard MEDICAL SCHOOL, just "Harvard" so I imagine different levels of health professionals being trained there, not necessarily just MD candidates, except for whatever little education they get in nutrition. ALSO, the existence of such a facility doesn't guarantee a high level of education in nutrition either.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Granny Magda, posted 10-08-2017 9:59 AM Granny Magda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Granny Magda, posted 10-08-2017 11:01 AM Faith has responded

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2338
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 206 of 245 (821481)
10-08-2017 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by Faith
10-08-2017 10:14 AM


Re: Registered Dietician Nutritionist
You consider advice to lose weight evidence of training in nutrition? That's pretty funny.

How so? A doctor giving you advice on your diet clearly constitutes medical advice on nutrition. What else could it possibly be?

Here is an entire series of advice pages from the UK's National Health Service giving advice on dieting and weight loss. What is that if not medical advice on nutrition?

You claimed that doctors are not trained in nutrition. In actual fact, nutritional advice is part of the day to day activities of doctors. You were wrong.

Mutate and Survive


On two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 10-08-2017 10:14 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2338
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 207 of 245 (821482)
10-08-2017 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Faith
10-08-2017 10:23 AM


Re: Truth About Cancer Conference is over
*sigh* It's this kind of thing that makes me wonder if you even read what is addressed to you. Try again. Actually read it this time.

from Message 198

Doctors get training in nutrition?

Yes. For example;

quote:
Harvard Medical School developed the Division of Nutrition in 1996 in order to establish nutrition as a discipline. The purpose of this Division was to coordinate nutrition activities between the medical school and the Harvard teaching hospitals, including research, teaching, postgraduate education and patient care.

Source; http://nutrition.med.harvard.edu/

Did you follow the link? It takes you to a page with "Harvard Medical School" at the top of the page. Check the sources!

so I imagine different levels of health professionals being trained there, not necessarily just MD candidates,

Have you considered reading what is addressed to you and checking cited sources instead of imagining things that turn out to be untrue?

You claimed that doctors do not receive training in nutrition. That was false. Now if you'd said that doctors frequently don't receive enough training in nutrition, I would agree with you. But you didn't say that. You said that they didn't receive any. That was false. This "Truth About Cancer" quackfest had you making false claims. Your faith in it and its quack purveyors is misplaced.

Mutate and Survive


On two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 10-08-2017 10:23 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by Faith, posted 10-08-2017 3:18 PM Granny Magda has responded

    
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 208 of 245 (821493)
10-08-2017 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Granny Magda
10-08-2017 11:01 AM


Re: Truth About Cancer Conference is over
OK I'll apologize for not reading through the whole thing. But I'm not very impressed anyway, with one nutrition program in one medical school that teaches doctors about nutrition in a once-a-month seminar and a yearly symposium. Granted it's something but it doesn't seem to have had much effect on the medical profession at large since it was founded in 1996.

More of that would be good, I'm sure, but it doesn't give nutrition very much weight really. But the conference was focused on nutrition as a cure of disease, not just small improvements in the national diet, which seems to be the Harvard focus. (I looked up sample newsletter online). If a radical change in diet can prevent or cure cancer, you aren't going to find that out through the Harvard facility. All the presenters at the conference have a rather radical view of healthy nutrition, and how many factors prevent it, such as pesticides in foods, inadequate soil nutrition, hormones and antibiotics in meat, as well as other environmental toxins. Programs to improve the growing of food, and eliminate the toxins, need a radical perspective.

Mercola's talk was about the dangers of microwaves and cell phones and similar hazards, for developing cancer and other diseases. Mike Evans, whom you also denounced, talked about heavy metals in the environment, even in organic produce. Is there something objectionable about such topics or what?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Granny Magda, posted 10-08-2017 11:01 AM Granny Magda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by jar, posted 10-08-2017 4:12 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 210 by Granny Magda, posted 10-08-2017 5:53 PM Faith has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29423
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 209 of 245 (821499)
10-08-2017 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Faith
10-08-2017 3:18 PM


Re: Truth About Cancer Conference is over
Faith writes:

But the conference was focused on nutrition as a cure of disease, not just small improvements in the national diet, which seems to be the Harvard focus.

No Faith, that is simply not true. It was not focused on nutrition as a cure for disease because there was nothing but the standard con man TESTIFY. It was just unsupported claims to sell quack products.

Testimony is the least reliable, least factual, least worthwhile evidence possible.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Faith, posted 10-08-2017 3:18 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2338
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 210 of 245 (821512)
10-08-2017 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Faith
10-08-2017 3:18 PM


Re: Truth About Cancer Conference is over
But I'm not very impressed anyway, with one nutrition program in one medical school that teaches doctors about nutrition in a once-a-month seminar and a yearly symposium.

Feel free to withdraw your false claim any time.

The reason why doctors typically don't study deeply into nutrition is largely because they don't need to; they have dietitians for that, just as doctors don't usually do physiotherapy; they have physiotherapists they can call upon for that.

Granted it's something but it doesn't seem to have had much effect on the medical profession at large since it was founded in 1996.

That medical school isn't the only place that teaches nutrition to doctors. It is, in fact, standard. take a look at this study;

quote:
Status of nutrition education in medical schools

Kelly M Adams, Karen C Lindell, Martin Kohlmeier, and Steven H Zeisel

Abstract

Background:

Numerous entreaties have been made over the past 2 decades to improve the nutrition knowledge and skills of medical students and physicians. However, most graduating medical students continue to rate their nutrition preparation as inadequate.
Objective:

The objective was to determine the amount and type of nutrition instruction at US medical schools, especially including the instruction that occurs outside designated nutrition courses.
Design:

A 12-item survey asked nutrition educators to characterize nutrition instruction at their medical schools (required, optional, or not offered) and to quantify nutrition contact hours occurring both inside and outside designated nutrition courses. During 2004, we surveyed all 126 US medical schools accredited at that time.
Results:

A total of 106 surveys were returned for a response rate of 84%. Ninety-nine of the 106 schools responding required some form of nutrition education; however, only 32 schools (30%) required a separate nutrition course. On average, students received 23.9 contact hours of nutrition instruction during medical school (range: 2–70 h). Only 40 schools required the minimum 25 h recommended by the National Academy of Sciences. Most instructors (88%) expressed the need for additional nutrition instruction at their institutions.
Conclusion:

With the move to a more integrated curriculum and problem-based learning at many medical schools, a substantial portion of the total nutrition instruction is occurring outside courses specifically dedicated to nutrition. The amount of nutrition education in medical schools remains inadequate.


Now that is not good, but it is very far from the situation you tried to portray. Instead of no doctors receiving any nutrition training as you falsely claimed, ninety-nine out of 106 medical schools responding taught nutrition. On average students received 23.9 hours of nutrition training. Plenty of room for improvement I agree, but anywhere near as bad as you claimed.

But the conference was focused on nutrition as a cure of disease, not just small improvements in the national diet, which seems to be the Harvard focus.

Yes, the Harvard facility concentrates on real medicine, not crazed fantasies of the kind peddled by Bolinger.

If a radical change in diet can prevent or cure cancer, you aren't going to find that out through the Harvard facility.

You're not going to find that out from the likes of Bolinger and Adams, who are scientifically illiterate lunatics. They don't bother to do the kind of research that might prove their claims, nor are they competent to do so.

Mercola's talk was about the dangers of microwaves and cell phones and similar hazards, for developing cancer and other diseases.

Exactly, Joe Mercola is a nutcase. Cell phones will not give you cancer. This particular claim is especially bonkers.

Mike Evans, whom you also denounced, talked about heavy metals in the environment, even in organic produce. Is there something objectionable about such topics or what?

Mike Adams is another nutcase. He's an anti-vaxxer and a notorious purveyor of pseudo-science. His presence discredits the whole enterprise.

Mutate and Survive


On two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Faith, posted 10-08-2017 3:18 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by jar, posted 10-08-2017 7:01 PM Granny Magda has acknowledged this reply
 Message 213 by Faith, posted 10-08-2017 8:33 PM Granny Magda has responded

    
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