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Author Topic:   "Natural" (plant-based) Health Solutions
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10471
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 526 of 606 (830300)
03-26-2018 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 518 by Faith
03-26-2018 12:01 PM


Re: And once again Faith posts utter false nonsense.
and it is the result of critical thinking that I know trusting in the Bible is the solution to everything.

Just to drag this whole thing back closer to the topic of the thread. The start of the discussion here deals with you giving that same level of deference to sources other than the Bible. You don't seem to question any source after you've latched onto it.

What you are taking as a personal affront is not personal. Almost nobody, other than you, would watch a youtube video and conclude that it was factual without doing some checking. If someone did do that and tried to post that crap here, folks here would be equally skeptical towards any such poster. The fact that you are physically unable to check, or just disinclined to check does not increase the chance that what you are watching is not utter crap. It just means that you cannot do a rational check.

Over the years we have watch you latch onto superstition, ridiculous conspiracy theories, pseudo-science, bigotry and other claptrap using the techniques that you call thinking. You are pretty much a cautionary tale on why people should not form opinions without critical thinking. Every post you make reinforces that conclusion.

Yes, it sounds like me whether I demonstrate it here or not, or whether you recognize that I do

You rarely demonstrate anything. You cannot bear the scrutiny that we would give anyone on a debate site.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!Ē

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 518 by Faith, posted 03-26-2018 12:01 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 528 by Faith, posted 03-26-2018 2:05 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 27616
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 527 of 606 (830301)
03-26-2018 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 525 by caffeine
03-26-2018 1:39 PM


Re: More on growing gardens
Who'd have thunk it, I actually agree with you for once. We could make a lot of simple changes to boost our own food production at home; with beneficial environmental effects.

Thank you.

However, the majority of people don't own the land to make any significant impact, I think. We like to grow stuff, but we don't have a garden. We do quite well on the herb front, but our annual vegetable output would suffice for about one meal. I don't think we're having any major effect on the world of agriculture,

But if gardening became popular, even a necessity in most people's eyes, even all those things would change, slowly over time of course, as human ingenuity found space for gardens, invented space, created them wherever possible, refused to buy or rent where there wasn't such space and so on and so forth. Where I am I have a balcony, and I could grow some things there and wish I were up to it but I don't even get out much. Be that as it may the balcony is there and available for use. I saw a film on Netflix not long ago, Ukrainian or something like that, where a woman moved out of her crowded family apartment into her own apartment and among all her other new freedoms and creative possibilities started growing things in pots on her very narrow balcony.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 525 by caffeine, posted 03-26-2018 1:39 PM caffeine has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 27616
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 528 of 606 (830302)
03-26-2018 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 526 by NoNukes
03-26-2018 1:49 PM


Re: And once again Faith posts utter false nonsense.
You say I latch onto
....ridiculous conspiracy theories, pseudo-science, bigotry and other claptrap

But that's simply not true. The conspiracies happen to be true, I don't follow pseudoscience, that's your own false judgment, and I'm not a bigot, that's just the usual kneejerk label applied by those here who ARE bigots and don't know how to think.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by NoNukes, posted 03-26-2018 1:49 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 530 by PaulK, posted 03-26-2018 2:53 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30144
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 529 of 606 (830303)
03-26-2018 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 517 by Faith
03-26-2018 11:59 AM


Re: God doesn't feed anyone?
jar didn't forget those things but jar pointed out that the God of the Bible did nothing to stop the famines and in many cases directly caused those famines.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios † † My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by Faith, posted 03-26-2018 11:59 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 532 by Faith, posted 03-26-2018 3:49 PM jar has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13765
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 530 of 606 (830306)
03-26-2018 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 528 by Faith
03-26-2018 2:05 PM


Re: And once again Faith posts utter false nonsense.
quote:

But that's simply not true

You say that, but then you go on to prove otherwise.

quote:

The conspiracies happen to be true

In other words you do latch onto conspiracy theories. Especially when you admit that you donít have any good evidence Message 514

quote:

I don't follow pseudoscience, that's your own false judgment,

Really ? So what ďrealĒ science is being falsely called pseudoscience ? According to you.

quote:

...and I'm not a bigot, that's just the usual kneejerk label applied by those here who ARE bigots and don't know how to think.

Anyone who knows how to think rationally - which excludes you - can see that your belief in conspiracy theories stems from your hate for the accused. That qualifies as bigotry.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 528 by Faith, posted 03-26-2018 2:05 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 531 by Faith, posted 03-26-2018 3:38 PM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 27616
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 531 of 606 (830311)
03-26-2018 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 530 by PaulK
03-26-2018 2:53 PM


Re: And once again Faith posts utter false nonsense.
The weird thing is that the term "conspiracy theories" is used as a mere denunciation, it has no actual content, it's just a way to call someone crazy. It's a form of categorical thinking. Nobody is interested in finding out what evidence there might be for the existence of an actual conspiracy because it's immediately subsumed under "false thinking." What is that but a form of bigotry?

I don't know what evidence I may or may not have given here about the Jesuit conspiracies, but there is a lot of evidence. There are books galore written about it. But the very idea is dismissed out of hand due to bigotry against "conspiracy theories."

I've been learning about the Jesuit conspiracy for a dozen or so years by now. The idea was quite new to me at first. After you've heard about all the different things imputed to the Jesuits since their inception just the imputation begins to add up to reason to take it seriously.

I'm sure there are other conspiracies I believe to be real that have less accessible evidence for them.

I have no idea what pseudoscience is being imputed to me. Natural foods diets? Oh well.

There is a lot of hidebound kneejerk categorical thinking about these things at EvC, certainly a failure of critical thinking, a form of bigotry..

"


This message is a reply to:
 Message 530 by PaulK, posted 03-26-2018 2:53 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 533 by PaulK, posted 03-26-2018 4:00 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 27616
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 532 of 606 (830312)
03-26-2018 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 529 by jar
03-26-2018 2:05 PM


Re: God doesn't feed anyone?
jar didn't forget those things but jar pointed out that the God of the Bible did nothing to stop the famines and in many cases directly caused those famines.

Of course, they are His judgment for sin. Punishment. Of course nobody likes the idea of being punished for sin, but justice requires it according to God's law.

But the principle of mercy in judgment means that He did inspire some people to provide relief in famine to those who trust Him, even having mercy on whole nations as He saw fit.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by jar, posted 03-26-2018 2:05 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 534 by jar, posted 03-26-2018 6:11 PM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13765
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 533 of 606 (830313)
03-26-2018 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 531 by Faith
03-26-2018 3:38 PM


Re: And once again Faith posts utter false nonsense.
quote:

The weird thing is that the term "conspiracy theories" is used as a mere denunciation, it has no actual content, it's just a way to call someone crazy. It's a form of categorical thinking

Thatís not true for a start. Try this: wikipedia

quote:

Nobody is interested in finding out what evidence there might be for the existence of an actual conspiracy because it's immediately subsumed under "false thinking." What is that but a form of bigotry?

Itís for the promoters of such ideas to produce evidence - especially as they are often highly implausible. When they try and fail to produce anything of value - as has happened here - itís not required of us to desperately go digging to try to prove it.

However it is a fact that you believe conspiracy theories and it is a fact that the accused always seem to be people or organisations you hate and it is a fact that you donít have evidence to justify your belief. Now that makes a rather convincing case for your bigotry.

quote:

I don't know what evidence I may or may not have given here about the Jesuit conspiracies, but there is a lot of evidence. There are books galore written about it. But the very idea is dismissed out of hand due to bigotry against "conspiracy theories."

Youíve given pretty much no evidence whatsoever. And the existence of books is not much better. There are books written about Jewish conspiracies but I donít see you endorsing those, nor do I expect you to (which is the point).

quote:

I have no idea what pseudoscience is being imputed to me. Natural foods diets? Oh well.

How about your idea that different textures automatically reduce friction ?

When you learn the fact that your liking of an idea has nothing to do with its truth - really learn it, not pay lip service - then you might stop being wrong all the time.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 531 by Faith, posted 03-26-2018 3:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30144
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 534 of 606 (830317)
03-26-2018 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 532 by Faith
03-26-2018 3:49 PM


Re: God doesn't feed anyone?
Faith writes:

Of course, they are His judgment for sin. Punishment. Of course nobody likes the idea of being punished for sin, but justice requires it according to God's law.

But the principle of mercy in judgment means that He did inspire some people to provide relief in famine to those who trust Him, even having mercy on whole nations as He saw fit.

That does not alter the fact that the God you market is still the source and cause of the famines and fully responsible for those famines and for the fact that such genocide does not just punish the guilty but rather the innocent as well.

But even more relevant to the topic is that your justification of such behavior is simply another example of your utter inability to think.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios † † My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 532 by Faith, posted 03-26-2018 3:49 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 535 by Faith, posted 03-27-2018 12:45 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 27616
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 535 of 606 (830323)
03-27-2018 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 534 by jar
03-26-2018 6:11 PM


Re: God doesn't feed anyone?
That does not alter the fact that the God you market is still the source and cause of the famines and fully responsible for those famines and for the fact that such genocide does not just punish the guilty but rather the innocent as well.

So, the judge who passes the death sentence on a serial killer is responsible for killing the serial killer. OK. Or doesn't it make more sense to say the killer deserves the death sentence and is therefore the one responsible for it?

As for the innocent being killed along with the guilty, actually God usually warns the innocent to escape, such as when He warned Lot's family to get out of Sodom because He was going to bring a fiery judgment on that city. And when Noah preached that the world was going to be destroyed by water so that people might be saved on the ark. And when He had Elisha, or was it Elijah, warn the Shunemite woman about the coming famine and told her to escape to Egypt. And when He warns the innocent people in the Harlot Church to "get out of her My people lest you partake of her plagues." And so on. And, of course, when God's people take the gospel to people around the world, it is a warning to come to Christ to be saved from the fiery judgment to come on this earth, and on all sinners for eternity.

God always provides a way out to those who trust and obey Him. You just don't like His terms. Like all those who heard Noah's preaching but refused to believe him.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 534 by jar, posted 03-26-2018 6:11 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 536 by NoNukes, posted 03-27-2018 1:21 AM Faith has responded
 Message 539 by jar, posted 03-27-2018 6:54 AM Faith has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10471
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 536 of 606 (830324)
03-27-2018 1:21 AM
Reply to: Message 535 by Faith
03-27-2018 12:45 AM


Re: God doesn't feed anyone?
As for the innocent being killed along with the guilty, actually God usually warns the innocent to escape, such as when He warned Lot's family to get out of Sodom because He was going to bring a fiery judgment on that city

This rebuttal does not bear any scrutiny at all. When Sodom was destroyed, innocent children including toddlers and infants were also destroyed. Even more of that kind of thing happened during the Flood. Innocent animals were destroyed as well. I have no idea why you even bother with these kinds of argument.

God always provides a way out to those who trust and obey Him.

That's not what the stories in the Old Testament would suggest. Some folks do not get a chance to obey or disobey. Sometimes God refuses to let Pharoah repent by hardening his heart.

These are difficult portions of the Old Testament to deal with, particularly for literalists like you. But you cannot simply fake the funk here. Most people here, Christian or not, have read this stuff.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!Ē

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 535 by Faith, posted 03-27-2018 12:45 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 537 by Faith, posted 03-27-2018 1:27 AM NoNukes has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 27616
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 537 of 606 (830325)
03-27-2018 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 536 by NoNukes
03-27-2018 1:21 AM


Re: God doesn't feed anyone?
What I said is true, God warns many to escape judgment to come.

It is you who are judging that some who were punished are actually innocent, although you don't know that at all. It is God who decides those things. In fact nobody is innocent, not even those God warned, and not those saved by the gospel either. Judging God is really not a safe thing to do, He knows what He is doing and you don't.

"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy" says the sovereign God.

Of course we fallen human beings have a problem with that, of course, but wisdom decrees that we defer to the God of all wisdom whether we understand it or not.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 536 by NoNukes, posted 03-27-2018 1:21 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 538 by NoNukes, posted 03-27-2018 2:07 AM Faith has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10471
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 538 of 606 (830326)
03-27-2018 2:07 AM
Reply to: Message 537 by Faith
03-27-2018 1:27 AM


Re: God doesn't feed anyone?
It is you who are judging that some who were punished are actually innocent, although you don't know that at all.

I don't have to be present to know that infants don't blaspheme, fornicate, curse God, or worship idols or to know that dead infants never did any such thing.

Judging God is really not a safe thing to do, He knows what He is doing and you don't.

Perhaps you should have used that argument instead of the one that you did use. If it is your position that nobody is innocent, then why even pretend that innocent people are being warned. You don't believe such people exist.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!Ē

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 537 by Faith, posted 03-27-2018 1:27 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 540 by Faith, posted 03-27-2018 9:00 AM NoNukes has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30144
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 539 of 606 (830327)
03-27-2018 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 535 by Faith
03-27-2018 12:45 AM


Re: God doesn't feed anyone?
Faith writes:

So, the judge who passes the death sentence on a serial killer is responsible for killing the serial killer. OK. Or doesn't it make more sense to say the killer deserves the death sentence and is therefore the one responsible for it?

Yet another example of your inability to think period.

Before the Judge passes any sentence there is first a charge against the individual, an indictment, a trial where evidence for and against the individual is presented and a judgement by a panel of peers. The persons wife and child are not punished.

But that is not the case with the God you market. There is no trial, no evidence, no independent jury, no defense and the guilty and innocent are punished indiscriminately.

Faith writes:

As for the innocent being killed along with the guilty, actually God usually warns the innocent to escape, such as when He warned Lot's family to get out of Sodom because He was going to bring a fiery judgment on that city. And when Noah preached that the world was going to be destroyed by water so that people might be saved on the ark. And when He had Elisha, or was it Elijah, warn the Shunemite woman about the coming famine and told her to escape to Egypt. And when He warns the innocent people in the Harlot Church to "get out of her My people lest you partake of her plagues." And so on. And, of course, when God's people take the gospel to people around the world, it is a warning to come to Christ to be saved from the fiery judgment to come on this earth, and on all sinners for eternity.

So says the dogma of your cult yet the Bible says otherwise. In the Exodus story the Pharaoh repeatedly agrees to the God characters requests yet the God character intentionally changes the Pharaoh's mind just to continue showing that the God you market is cruel and unjust. There are many other such examples as you would know if you had ever read the Bible beginning with Adam and Steve.

Faith writes:

God always provides a way out to those who trust and obey Him. You just don't like His terms. Like all those who heard Noah's preaching but refused to believe him.

You are partially correct, I do not like the terms from the God you market and no reasonable moral person should like those terms.

Fortunately, the God you market is simply a human creation, a character is human created stories.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios † † My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 535 by Faith, posted 03-27-2018 12:45 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 541 by Faith, posted 03-27-2018 9:12 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 27616
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 540 of 606 (830331)
03-27-2018 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 538 by NoNukes
03-27-2018 2:07 AM


Re: God doesn't feed anyone?
We talk about innocence because there are degrees of guilt although we are all born sinners. The innocent in the Bible are most likely to be those who trust God although they are fallen like everybody else.

But again, God is sovereign and trusting your own thoughts above His is sheer folly. We are not in a position to know God's thoughts beyond what He has revealed to us in the Bible, but we are all to trust His greater wisdom whether we understand or not. Of course God's judgments are scary and often incomprehsible to us, but criticizing Him based on our fallen minds is a very bad idea. You've heard that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom I'm sure. That's really what humility is. That's where we have to start.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 538 by NoNukes, posted 03-27-2018 2:07 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 542 by jar, posted 03-27-2018 10:17 AM Faith has responded
 Message 545 by NoNukes, posted 03-27-2018 11:06 AM Faith has responded

    
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