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Author Topic:   "Natural" (plant-based) Health Solutions
PaulK
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Posts: 13311
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 91 of 316 (819015)
09-05-2017 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Faith
09-05-2017 8:46 AM


Re: Kordich
In other words it is entirely possible that Kordich may have never had cancer at all.

That's really not very good evidence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Faith, posted 09-05-2017 8:46 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Faith, posted 09-05-2017 10:10 AM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26611
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 92 of 316 (819021)
09-05-2017 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by PaulK
09-05-2017 8:58 AM


Re: Kordich
I'll take his word for it that a doctor diagnosed him correctly.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by PaulK, posted 09-05-2017 8:58 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by PaulK, posted 09-05-2017 10:31 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26611
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 93 of 316 (819022)
09-05-2017 10:31 AM


side thought on "biblical" diets
There are lots of nutrition-based Alternative treatments out there, some are awfully specialized and complicated such as the Hallelujah Diet. That one is touted as biblically based but when I think of the foods mentioned in the Bible I don't see it. Milk and honey -- but many diets today eliminate dairy completely. And all sugars including honey. Fatted calf. Red meat is eliminated today. Butter. Oil. Lentil stew would be out on a raw diet, and so on.

Some make a big deal out of the fact that the prophet Daniel refused the fancy foods of the Babylonian king, claiming he and his friends would be just as healthy on "pulse," or vegetables. This is mistakenly understood as being about health per se, but it's not. As good Israelites they would not eat certain foods that the heathen nations ate, probably some foods considered unclean by Israelite law; or foods sacrificed to the Babylonian gods. They trusted God to support their health on nothing but vegetables. This is not a "biblical" diet at all unless you are an Israelite captive in a heathen nation.

The Bible does support special concoctions for healing diseases though, and I'd put carrot juice in that category myself.


    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13311
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 94 of 316 (819023)
09-05-2017 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Faith
09-05-2017 10:10 AM


Re: Kordich
In other words you've decided to believe him, even when he has no way to know if what he's saying is really true.

That's hardly a rational approach - nor a good basis for advising others to rely on juicing instead of chemotherapy. So I hope you won't do that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Faith, posted 09-05-2017 10:10 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Faith, posted 09-05-2017 10:34 AM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26611
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 95 of 316 (819024)
09-05-2017 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by PaulK
09-05-2017 10:31 AM


Re: Kordich
He died recently at the age of 93 so there's no way to find out anything from him. He was diagnosed back in '49. Perhaps an intrepid sleuth could track down the doctor and find out how trustworthy the diagnosis was, but otherwise I trust Kordich's acceptance of the diagnosis as right. There are others besides Kordich anyway. In this area people do their own research and decide on juicing on their own.

I'm discussing, not advising.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by PaulK, posted 09-05-2017 10:31 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by PaulK, posted 09-05-2017 10:49 AM Faith has responded
 Message 97 by jar, posted 09-05-2017 10:49 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13311
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 96 of 316 (819025)
09-05-2017 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Faith
09-05-2017 10:34 AM


Re: Kordich
If there weren't proper tests - and you've indicated that there weren't - Kordich simply couldn't know. Misdiagnoses do happen. So long as a misdiagnosis is a reasonable possibility (and it certainly is), then citing Kordich as evidence is simply not reasonable.

The most you could sensibly trust Kordich to do is to repeat what the doctor told him correctly - but even that is likely going too far into credulity, given the time since the diagnosis and the human tendency to confabulate - especially so given how much Kordich made from claiming to have been cured.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Faith, posted 09-05-2017 10:34 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Faith, posted 09-05-2017 11:11 AM PaulK has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29622
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 97 of 316 (819026)
09-05-2017 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Faith
09-05-2017 10:34 AM


Re: Kordich
But all you have is "TESTIFY" Faith and that is the least reliable, most inaccurate form of evidence possible. There is simply no corroboration in any of your examples.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Faith, posted 09-05-2017 10:34 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
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Posts: 26611
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 98 of 316 (819029)
09-05-2017 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by PaulK
09-05-2017 10:49 AM


Re: Kordich
It's really amazing how anything anybody says can, and will, be obliterated by the endless destroying machine of EvC. Truth isn't the concern really, just demolishing the opposition, that's all, and it's amazing how easy it is once you set yourself to question every little thing. You can raise doubts about anything at all in the end.

I have no reason to doubt anything in Kordich's story, and neither do you really, you just have to doubt it because it suits your bias to doubt it.

I gather that Kordich was on his way to a medical degree when he got his symptoms and saw the doctor, went on the juice diet and became a juice guru. Why would you assume he made more as a juice teacher than he would have as a doctor?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by PaulK, posted 09-05-2017 10:49 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by PaulK, posted 09-05-2017 11:37 AM Faith has responded
 Message 101 by jar, posted 09-05-2017 11:41 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 109 by Taq, posted 09-05-2017 2:37 PM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13311
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 99 of 316 (819031)
09-05-2017 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by Faith
09-05-2017 11:11 AM


Re: Kordich
quote:

It's really amazing how anything anybody says can, and will, be obliterated by the endless destroying machine of EvC. Truth isn't the concern really, just demolishing the opposition, that's all, and it's amazing how easy it is once you set yourself to question every little thing. You can raise doubts about anything at all in the end.

You're really describing yourself - except that your attempts to destroy the truth fail all the time.

quote:

I have no reason to doubt anything in Kordich's story, and neither do you really, you just have to doubt it because it suits your bias to doubt it.

Sure I do. Kordich cannot be expected to be unquestionably right about things he can't know and can't be expected to be immune to ordinary human failings. There is no good reason to think otherwise. And yet here you are complaining bitterly against it.

Add to that the basic implausibility of a miracle cure and a misdiagnosis must be seen as a more likely possibility.

quote:

I gather that Kordich was on his way to a medical degree when he got his symptoms and saw the doctor, went on the juice diet and became a juice guru. Why would you assume he made more as a juice teacher than he would have as a doctor?

I certainly think he would have been less famous - which matters to some people. And he certainly seems to have done well. And then there's all the emotional payoff from "beating cancer". Also, he doesn't mention studying to be a doctor - the only thing he mentions about University is football.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Faith, posted 09-05-2017 11:11 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Faith, posted 09-05-2017 11:44 AM PaulK has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10068
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 100 of 316 (819033)
09-05-2017 11:41 AM


I had written a long post, but it boils down to this...
Same shite, different day...

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


    
jar
Member
Posts: 29622
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 101 of 316 (819034)
09-05-2017 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by Faith
09-05-2017 11:11 AM


Testimony is nearly universally useless.
Faith writes:

Why would you assume he made more as a juice teacher than he would have as a doctor?

Because in the forties and fifties and sixties and even seventies Doctors did not make very much.

Juice Guru and Carny Snake Oil Salesman paid far better.

BUT...that is not the issue. The issue is TESTIFY is simply the least reliable least worthy form of evidence and you have presented absolutely noting but TESTIFY and TESTIFY for PROFIT at that.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Faith, posted 09-05-2017 11:11 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26611
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 102 of 316 (819036)
09-05-2017 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by PaulK
09-05-2017 11:37 AM


Re: Kordich
No he mentions the medical classes he was taking.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by PaulK, posted 09-05-2017 11:37 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by PaulK, posted 09-05-2017 12:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26611
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 103 of 316 (819038)
09-05-2017 11:48 AM


The technique here really boils down to character assassination every time. Doesn't matter what the topic is, that's always the tactic on the EvC side. Either the writer of the posts or the people being quoted are all just subjected to character assassination. That's the whole of your "scientific" arguments in the end. Too bad people are influenced by such tactics.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by PaulK, posted 09-05-2017 12:35 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 106 by jar, posted 09-05-2017 12:55 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13311
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 104 of 316 (819040)
09-05-2017 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Faith
09-05-2017 11:44 AM


Re: Kordich
quote:

No he mentions the medical classes he was taking

Where ?

This page at jaykordich.com says:


He also grew and developed the muscles that would serve him well as a football player at the University of Southern California.

And


From a star athlete to surviving a life-threatening illness, all by the age of 26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Faith, posted 09-05-2017 11:44 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13311
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 105 of 316 (819043)
09-05-2017 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Faith
09-05-2017 11:48 AM


quote:

The technique here really boils down to character assassination every time.

So suggesting that Jay Kordich was human, with the normal human weaknesses is considered "character assassination". I couldn't pick a clearer example of you setting up a man as an idol if I tried.

The rest is your usual tactic of trying to blame other people for the deficiencies of your argument. The fact is that you have no good evidence for the Gerson protocol, and the only one at fault here is you for indulging in your usual nastiness instead of accepting that fact.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Faith, posted 09-05-2017 11:48 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
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