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Author Topic:   The Tension of Faith
Faith
Member
Posts: 28888
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1441 of 1540 (826231)
12-26-2017 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1440 by Percy
12-26-2017 9:56 AM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
ABE: Answer to title: Yes the Christian Faith means loving everyone, but loving everyone doesn't mean encouraging sin or violations of God's Law, and it doesn't mean supporting secular laws that do that either. It also doesn't mean making nicey- nice with people who say idiotic or blasphemous things about true Christianity. /abe

My God IS the Judge of all the Earth. He's the Creator God who created the whole earth and everything in it and all human b eings and all the rest of the universe. He owns it all.

My views of sin are derived from His Word, which He gave to the whole human race to save us from our natural ignrance.

God IS Love and Love can't coexist with sin; that's the reason for God's judgments against sin. He's longsuffering with us, giving us plenty of time to repent, but eventually He will come to judge the whole Earth. That is what His Word says. You really ought to pay attention. There's still time to repent and be saved.

True freedom, speaking of Trump, does not save criminals from punishment. Sheesh.

OK, now THAT should be all I say on this subject. I've spent the last thirty years learning about Christian theology only to get treated like I made it all up by absolute know-nothing unbelievers like you.

Anyway I have to go hear a book reading program on Pilgrim Radio anyway. You can listen too, just go to Pilgrim Radio dot com. 2017 has been the 500th Anniversary of the Protestant Reformation and the book being read is a biography of Luther. It's been really interesting so far..

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1440 by Percy, posted 12-26-2017 9:56 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1442 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 12:15 PM Faith has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17409
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


(2)
Message 1442 of 1540 (826247)
12-27-2017 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1441 by Faith
12-26-2017 2:59 PM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
Faith writes:

ABE: Answer to title: Yes the Christian Faith means loving everyone, but loving everyone doesn't mean encouraging sin or violations of God's Law, and it doesn't mean supporting secular laws that do that either.

Yes, we know you think Christians should be able to choose which secular laws they follow.

It also doesn't mean making nicey- nice with people who say idiotic or blasphemous things about true Christianity. /abe

Matthew 5:39.

My God IS the Judge of all the Earth. He's the Creator God who created the whole earth and everything in it and all human b eings and all the rest of the universe. He owns it all.

Yes, this is what you believe on faith.

My views of sin are derived from His Word, which He gave to the whole human race to save us from our natural ignorance.

My views of sin are a combination of outside influences and what I feel inside.

God IS Love and Love can't coexist with sin;

If God is love and permeates the universe, then since sin is in the universe, obviously God can coexist with sin.

that's the reason for God's judgments against sin.

Since God is obviously coexisting with sin, it cannot be the reason for His judgments against sin.

He's long suffering with us, giving us plenty of time to repent, but eventually He will come to judge the whole Earth. That is what His Word says.

This is what you believe on faith.

You really ought to pay attention. There's still time to repent and be saved.

Thanks for your concern. I'm fine. If repenting means hating I don't want any part of it. You don't seem to realize what a horrible advertisement for Christianity you are.

True freedom, speaking of Trump, does not save criminals from punishment. Sheesh.

Politicians of integrity don't seek to lock up their political opponents.

OK, now THAT should be all I say on this subject. I've spent the last thirty years learning about Christian theology only to get treated like I made it all up by absolute know-nothing unbelievers like you.

I know that living a Godly life means loving your fellow man.

Anyway I have to go hear a book reading program on Pilgrim Radio anyway. You can listen too, just go to Pilgrim Radio dot com. 2017 has been the 500th Anniversary of the Protestant Reformation and the book being read is a biography of Luther. It's been really interesting so far..

Martin Luther: The Man Who Rediscovered God and Changed the World is available as an audiobook from OverDrive, which works through your local library and is free - click the link that starts this sentence.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1441 by Faith, posted 12-26-2017 2:59 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1444 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 12:24 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 1445 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 12:32 PM Percy has responded
 Message 1446 by NoNukes, posted 12-27-2017 1:34 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 28888
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1443 of 1540 (826251)
12-27-2017 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 829 by Phat
11-21-2017 7:53 AM


Re: Tension from Faith
In my opinion, your weakness is that you never entertain opinions and beliefs contrary to your own.

Came across this again and want to answer it again. A Christian who has spent years studying the faith, the Bible, theology, does not have to entertain opinions and beliefs contrary to the established traditional faith. What a bizarre idea Phat. What a worldly capitulation. Biblcial Christianity is not a mere academic subject that should be batted about in the world's forums, it's God's own revelation and it has authority over everything else. If I hold heretical views they need correction, but by the Church, not by unbelievers.

Your critics say that you are part of the cult of Biblical Christianity.

There is no such thing. That's an invention of unbelievers, just an attack on Christianity. Your whole attitude in this post represents your personal capitulation to God's enemies. This is why you need to wake up. You've managed to convince me that you are a Christian in spite of this kind of deviation, but you are so confused and vacillating and prone to accept false doctrine it is very hard to tell. You treat unbelieving opinions as equal to Christian theology,, apparently for the sake of getting along, which is NOT what God wants of us -- we are to be a counter to the world, not give in to it. "Be not conformed to the world..."

We truly live in a culture having a war on ideology.

I have NO idea what you mean by this remark. I could argue the opposite, that the world is dominated by some pretty evil ideologies these days.

I used to think and believe that it was a sign of the last days, as you still probably do.

I think we must be getting very close for a lot of reasons but as far as I can make sense of your remark, a war on ideology isn't one of them.

Now, though still a believer in Jesus Christ, I fear that Biblical Christianity and traditional values are going to lead the world into a self-fulfilling prophecy of chaos...simply because we are taking a stand for authoritarian ideology marketed as The Truth.

What on EARTH are you talking about? If anything the Christian Church has compromised so far with the world these days we have no clout at all. Our values aren't leading anybody anywhere, they've been buried under mountains of worldly compromise along the same lines that you seem to be espousing. You really do need to wake up. You need to learn something about your Christian faith if you really are a Christian.

And that term "marketed" is the sign of an antichristian. Do wake up.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 829 by Phat, posted 11-21-2017 7:53 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1447 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 3:58 PM Faith has responded
 Message 1450 by Phat, posted 12-27-2017 4:38 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 28888
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1444 of 1540 (826252)
12-27-2017 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1442 by Percy
12-27-2017 12:15 PM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
Nice to know about the audiobook thanks. It's a very well written book that brings out the historical context in which Luther lived with a vividness I haven't found in any other account of the Reformation or its leaders.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1442 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 12:15 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 28888
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1445 of 1540 (826253)
12-27-2017 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1442 by Percy
12-27-2017 12:15 PM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
I know that living a Godly life means loving your fellow man.

What you don't know is what loving your fellow man means in reality. You have the usual mushheaded liberal notions that deny sin, deny the Fall, deny Hell, deny God, etc.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1442 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 12:15 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1448 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 4:11 PM Faith has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10739
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1446 of 1540 (826257)
12-27-2017 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1442 by Percy
12-27-2017 12:15 PM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
Thanks for your concern. I'm fine. If repenting means hating I don't want any part of it. You don't seem to realize what a horrible advertisement for Christianity you are.

For what it's worth, I am surrounded by Christians on a daily basis. I have yet to hear any of them say things like, "I hate you all." They tend to pray for people they consider to be sinners. Yes, there are churches where the opposite is taught. Maybe Faith is from that tradition.

I know that living a Godly life means loving your fellow man.

This is preached in churches across the country every week. The idea that your neighbors are only the other folk in the same pew as you on Sunday is so far from Christlike as to be unrecognizable.

Someone needs to stop "testi-lying".

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1442 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 12:15 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17409
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 1447 of 1540 (826269)
12-27-2017 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1443 by Faith
12-27-2017 12:18 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
Faith writes:

In my opinion, your weakness is that you never entertain opinions and beliefs contrary to your own.

Came across this again and want to answer it again. A Christian who has spent years studying the faith, the Bible, theology, does not have to entertain opinions and beliefs contrary to the established traditional faith.

Years of study is not the yardstick. Many have spent many more years than you studying views different from your own. By your yardstick they don't have to consider your views, either.

But faith isn't about intolerance. True faith should make us more tolerant, not less. Being secure in your on faith means wishing other people the best in finding their own path to God, rather than coercing them into accepting your God.

What a bizarre idea Phat. What a worldly capitulation. Biblcial Christianity is not a mere academic subject that should be batted about in the world's forums, it's God's own revelation and it has authority over everything else.

You interpret God's revelation in the Bible one way, others interpret it another, yet others don't believe the Bible is God's revelation at all.

If I hold heretical views they need correction, but by the Church, not by unbelievers.

Everyone has to find the views that work best for them. True faith is much more than just following a set of rules someone else provides about what to believe.

Your critics say that you are part of the cult of Biblical Christianity.

There is no such thing.

Evangelicalism doesn't have all the characteristics of a cult, but it has plenty. Beliefs are exalted above the beliefs of all other groups. Questioning and doubt are discouraged. There's a great deal of detail about what to believe. An us versus them attitude is encouraged. There's a brainwashed quality to believers.

That's an invention of unbelievers, just an attack on Christianity. Your whole attitude in this post represents your personal capitulation to God's enemies.

Yours is not the only path to God.

This is why you need to wake up. You've managed to convince me that you are a Christian...

You keep setting yourself up as God.

...in spite of this kind of deviation, but you are so confused and vacillating and prone to accept false doctrine it is very hard to tell. You treat unbelieving opinions as equal to Christian theology, apparently for the sake of getting along, which is NOT what God wants of us -- we are to be a counter to the world, not give in to it. "Be not conformed to the world..."

I grant that Phat's beliefs sometimes give the impression of having a kind of flaccid quality, but it seems to me that he's struggling with conflicts between what be believes, what he thinks he should believe, and who he is. My own personal feedback to him would be that the Christian God is no more real than Zeus or Thor, but I don't think that's what he feels inside, and I don't think it would work for him.

I used to think and believe that it was a sign of the last days, as you still probably do.

I think we must be getting very close for a lot of reasons but as far as I can make sense of your remark, a war on ideology isn't one of them.

The real end days are billions of years off.

What on EARTH are you talking about? If anything the Christian Church has compromised so far with the world these days we have no clout at all. Our values aren't leading anybody anywhere, they've been buried under mountains of worldly compromise along the same lines that you seem to be espousing.

I think most people see precisely the opposite. Evangelicals seem unwilling to compromise or be accepting enough of other views to sell wedding cakes to anyone.

You really do need to wake up. You need to learn something about your Christian faith if you really are a Christian.

Matthew 7:1.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1443 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 12:18 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1451 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 4:39 PM Percy has responded
 Message 1453 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 4:58 PM Percy has responded
 Message 1467 by Faith, posted 12-28-2017 1:45 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17409
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 1448 of 1540 (826270)
12-27-2017 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1445 by Faith
12-27-2017 12:32 PM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
Faith writes:

I know that living a Godly life means loving your fellow man.

What you don't know is what loving your fellow man means in reality. You have the usual mushheaded liberal notions that deny sin, deny the Fall, deny Hell, deny God, etc.

Well, let's be clear about it. I don't just deny sin, deny the Fall, deny Hell, deny God, etc. I don't believe much of anything you believe. I particularly don't believe in telling other people what to believe.

And I especially don't think many reading this thread would see your judgmental theology as possessing much love. Your religion casts shadows of The Handmaid's Tale.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1445 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 12:32 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1449 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 4:34 PM Percy has responded
 Message 1454 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 5:54 PM Percy has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 28888
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1449 of 1540 (826273)
12-27-2017 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1448 by Percy
12-27-2017 4:11 PM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
You don't even know what judgmental means. I don't talk about people, I hardly ever judge people moralistically, which is what Horowitz described the Left doing as I mentioned a while back, I'm talking about doctrines, laws, ideas, I'm not talking about gays but about the law that legalizes gay marriage, not about the women who have abortions but the law that legalizes it. THESE THINGS BRING THE NATION DEEPER INTO GOD'S WRATH. I'm not even judging the Muslim refugees, but the political thinking that ignores their dangerous ideology in order to subject Americans to that potential danger. Their ideology is dangerous but they are victims of it, I don't hold them morally responsible for it. Judgmentalness is judging, in fact condemning, people for sin. Your moralistic denunciations of me personally are actually examp;les of that, not anything I've said. I've said nothing about hating anyway, but I do hate hateful ideas, doctrines, laws and ideologies that violate God's law or are dangerous for human beings.

There's a logical failure in your thinking.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1448 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 4:11 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1459 by Percy, posted 12-28-2017 9:55 AM Faith has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10883
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 1450 of 1540 (826274)
12-27-2017 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1443 by Faith
12-27-2017 12:18 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
Since I'm being discussed, perhaps its best if I give my 2 cents on the commentary.

Faith writes:

A Christian who has spent years studying the faith, the Bible, theology, does not have to entertain opinions and beliefs contrary to the established traditional faith.

I know as much of the traditional beliefs (within Evangelical Christianity) as you do, Faith. The only thing you may have studied more than I is Christian History, but since you say that . Biblical Christianity is not a mere academic subject that should be batted about in the world's forums I can agree that its irrelevant. Now, concerning what is and is not traditional and orthodox, I used to agree with what you probably still believe...namely that the Bible is given to us by God in communion with early writers. (Inspired of and by the Spirit) Some of the counter arguments here at EvC got me to question the idea of inerrancy and for awhile I grappled with this whole idea of questioning...thinking and believing that perhaps I was doubting the faith and security I had been given.(Through being born again)

I never doubted my salvation, however. This despite the fact that EvC challenged me to justify salvation through belief as opposed to doing works for the evidence of salvation. Ringo is a self-admitted unbeliever who has gotten me to question everything I have been taught. jar is a believer yet values logic, reason, and reality over the Creeds he was confirmed by in his own Episcopal Church. These two were not what caused me to question my faith, the bible, and theology in general, however. It was you, Faith. I began to read your exchanges with many here at EvC concerning the Biblical Flood and the interpretation of evidence. I began to see your character come out through the words that you wrote. At first I saw you as being gutsy enough to stand for what you believed, but as the illogic of your arguments and the reactions which you had towards your opponents became glaringly obvious, I began to question why a member of my own belief system would be so stubborn and illogical towards learned opponents who had actually studied the topic. So in response to the idea that EvC and its legion of unbelievers caused me to capitulate from a firm stand, I will say that it was you a believer who led me in that direction.

Apart from all that, I still believe in one GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen...though I wont limit myself to understanding Him through Calvinism since I agree that Calvinism is illogical and that even Theologians whom I traditionally have respected such as RC Sproul are not above being questioned and challenged. If GOD cannot understand why I am questioning these ideas, and if by questioning these ideas I am going against Him, than let me be judged accordingly when the time is right. You and I both will be judged on our day by day character and representation of the God whom we believe that we know. In my opinion, the stand that you take is not the sign of a martyr for christ but simply the sign of a human too stubborn and proud to dare question anything. And that is what led me to question my own faith.

I dont simply agree with everyone here at EvC, but of all of the members here, you are the only one who rarely if ever responds to my debate topics. Even Jesus would likely respond to me. Thats all I have to say.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1443 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 12:18 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1452 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 4:46 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 28888
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1451 of 1540 (826275)
12-27-2017 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1447 by Percy
12-27-2017 3:58 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
I think most people see precisely the opposite. Evangelicals seem unwilling to compromise or be accepting enough of other views to sell wedding cakes to anyone.

We will not disobey God. You can't compromise obedience to God. It's not a matter of different views, it's a matter of obedience to God. Muslims wouldn't make a wedding cake for a gay wedding either, because to them that would be disobeying Allah, and I don't think they even have a law about marriage in their holy books. But nobody challenges them over this of course, because Islam is in favor and Christianity is not and bringing down Christianity is what it's all about.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1447 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 3:58 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1455 by PaulK, posted 12-28-2017 1:55 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1460 by Percy, posted 12-28-2017 10:02 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 28888
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1452 of 1540 (826276)
12-27-2017 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1450 by Phat
12-27-2017 4:38 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
Thank you for acknowledging that you have given up your belief in Bible inerrancy due to the arguments of unbelievers. That's most of what I was objecting to. I'm saying that's giving in to the world and you would do a lot better to listen to Christian teachers.

===================================
ABE: As PaulK points out, I was wrong about this, you are really blaming me and I hadn't read far enough or carefully enough. What you are blaming me for isn't exactly clear, though, my "illogic?" Sounds to me like you're blaming me through the lens of EvCers anyway. And Calvin is illogical? If you spent more time listening to Christian teachers instead of to people here it might look different to you. Whatever, Phat, believe whatever you believe, As I go on to say I don't want to argue any of this.

I still believe what I've argued about the Flood. It needs some work but there's nothing illogical about it. If you think so you've bought the forum perspective. You're wrong. I'm sorry, however, for being a hot head, I shouldn't get so impatient, but that is a reason I should have left here long ago.

/abe
===================================

But I don't really want to argue with you about any of it, I'm mostly just responding to your recent personal attacks on me. i also want to avoid arguing about Calvinism. It's a lost cause in a context like EvC. But you've come to your own conclusions, so believe whatever you believe I don't want to argue with you about it. Just don't come attacking me as you did from your new man-centered theology. I've mostly tried not to get into disagreements with you but you've been coming on rather strong against me lately and eventually I've had to answer you.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1450 by Phat, posted 12-27-2017 4:38 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 1456 by PaulK, posted 12-28-2017 2:15 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 28888
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1453 of 1540 (826278)
12-27-2017 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1447 by Percy
12-27-2017 3:58 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
The years I've put in ought to spare me the idiotic accusation of making up my theology. That's all I was saying.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1447 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 3:58 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1461 by Percy, posted 12-28-2017 10:13 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 28888
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1454 of 1540 (826281)
12-27-2017 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1448 by Percy
12-27-2017 4:11 PM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
I guess a person befriending a gay neighbor who recently lost his partner of many decades doesn't count s love if we don't support gay marriage? Having the neighbot over to Thanksgiving dinner isn't love either, right? Taking him shopping because his eyes are going bad, does that count? Naa, only leftist politics counts as love in this weird upside-down modern world.

abe: As for abortion, there are churches all over this country that run crisis pregnancy centers to help girls and women with unwanted pregnancies. Some of them also run living quarters with room and board for the duration of the pregnancy. They offer counseling, help getting jobs or going back to school, help with adoption if that's the woman's choice, or with being able to care for the child herself. But that's not love I guess. Only killing the baby is love.

Then there are the Muslim refugees. I already described how many Christians are going to them in their refugee camps to give all kinds of needed help. But that's not love either, right?

Meanwhile, the topic here has not been about people but about law, doctrine, and so on. I do hate evil laws and doctrines, passionately.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1448 by Percy, posted 12-27-2017 4:11 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1462 by Percy, posted 12-28-2017 10:22 AM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14191
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 1455 of 1540 (826283)
12-28-2017 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1451 by Faith
12-27-2017 4:39 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
quote:

We will not disobey God. You can't compromise obedience to God.

You don’t have a command from God saying that you must oppose gay marriage.
You have permission to eat meat from pagan sacrices which seems at least as close an association as providing services for the secular celebration of a gay marriage.
And you seem quite willing to disobey other commands.

quote:

Muslims wouldn't make a wedding cake for a gay wedding either, because to them that would be disobeying Allah, and I don't think they even have a law about marriage in their holy books

You don’t have a relevant law in the Bible. We know that because you can’t find one. And, of course, the Quran speaks of marriage and Muslims include the Torah among their Holy books.

quote:

But nobody challenges them over this of course, because Islam is in favor and Christianity is not and bringing down Christianity is what it's all about.

Or because there are no instances of Muslims breaking the anti-discrimination laws. How many Muslim-run bakeries are there in states which include gays as a protected class ? How many of those supply wedding cakes ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1451 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 4:39 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
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