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Author Topic:   Genesis "kinds" may be Nested Hierarchies.
Dredge
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Posts: 676
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 106 of 184 (824295)
11-26-2017 6:44 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Taq
11-15-2017 4:06 PM


Taq writes:

You have yet to say a right thing about phylogenetics, so what does that tell you?


... that I'm stupid and ignorant?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Taq, posted 11-15-2017 4:06 PM Taq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by jar, posted 11-26-2017 6:47 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 114 by Pressie, posted 11-27-2017 6:13 AM Dredge has not yet responded

    
jar
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Posts: 29763
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 107 of 184 (824296)
11-26-2017 6:47 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Dredge
11-26-2017 6:44 AM


Dredge writes:

Taq writes:

You have yet to say a right thing about phylogenetics, so what does that tell you?


... that I'm stupid and ignorant?

No, it says that you are willfully ignorant; ignorant by choice at best but most likely simply dishonest.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Dredge, posted 11-26-2017 6:44 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 676
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 108 of 184 (824297)
11-26-2017 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by JonF
11-15-2017 4:21 PM


Re: platypus nested hierarchy
The rationale for arranging them in that order is to make it look like the general theory of evolution is true - as is the wont of atheist "scientists".
This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by JonF, posted 11-15-2017 4:21 PM JonF has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Taq, posted 11-30-2017 11:11 AM Dredge has responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 676
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 109 of 184 (824299)
11-26-2017 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by JonF
11-15-2017 4:21 PM


Re: platypus nested hierarchy
The rationale for arranging them that way is to make the atheist arranger feel better about his quasi-religious belief in evolution. Never underestimate the power of self-delusion.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by JonF, posted 11-15-2017 4:21 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by JonF, posted 11-26-2017 1:38 PM Dredge has responded

    
Tangle
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Posts: 5235
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 110 of 184 (824307)
11-26-2017 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Dredge
11-26-2017 6:37 AM


Re: platypus nested hierarchy
Dredge writes:

They have to arrive at a nested hierarchies otherwise evolution falls to pieces

Hey, I think you've finally got it.

Now you know how to disprove evolution, why don't you do it? It should be easy, just pick a family or a genera and show that there is no nested hierarchy. This is objective, repeatable stuff - all the specimens are there in the museums and text books, just do it, get that Nobel Prize.

It's amazing it hasn't been done already isn't it? After all, there's a whole Creationist Instutute just desperate to find loopholes.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Dredge, posted 11-26-2017 6:37 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
JonF
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Posts: 3998
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 111 of 184 (824316)
11-26-2017 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Dredge
11-26-2017 6:54 AM


Re: platypus nested hierarchy
You're still not getting it.

You claimed it's easy to produce alternative nested hierarchies of life.

Show us several examples YOU HAVE CREATED.

And explain WHY YOU CREATED THOSE EXAMPLES AS YOU DID.

Your fevered hallucinations about why WE do what we do are irrelevant.

Of course you will never do it. You can't. Nobody can.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Dredge, posted 11-26-2017 6:54 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Dredge, posted 11-27-2017 5:11 AM JonF has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 676
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 112 of 184 (824330)
11-27-2017 5:11 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by JonF
11-26-2017 1:38 PM


Re: platypus nested hierarchy
I can't produce any nested hiearchies at all coz there are too many gaps that can't be accounted for.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by JonF, posted 11-26-2017 1:38 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Pressie, posted 11-27-2017 6:09 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 115 by Tangle, posted 11-27-2017 6:45 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 116 by JonF, posted 11-27-2017 8:08 AM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1856
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 113 of 184 (824334)
11-27-2017 6:09 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Dredge
11-27-2017 5:11 AM


Re: platypus nested hierarchy
Hey, looking for excuses? You seem to be just a puff of hot air claiming things.

You are welcome to try and get a tetrapod with wings growing out of their bodies...The opposite of the ToE...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Dredge, posted 11-27-2017 5:11 AM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1856
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 114 of 184 (824335)
11-27-2017 6:13 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Dredge
11-26-2017 6:44 AM


Dredge writes:

... that I'm stupid and ignorant?

No, just that you are wilfully ignorant of facts. Brain washed.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Dredge, posted 11-26-2017 6:44 AM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5235
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 115 of 184 (824337)
11-27-2017 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Dredge
11-27-2017 5:11 AM


Re: platypus nested hierarchy
Dredge writes:

I can't produce any nested hiearchies at all coz there are too many gaps that can't be accounted for.

Oh come on, it wouldn't be hard.

Find me a tripodal mammal, or an insect - or any beast at all - with wheels. Too hard?
Find me a cold blooded animal with mammary glands or a fish with fur. A bird with teeth? How about a shark with bones? A whale with gills?

It should be really, really easy. How about an ant with four legs?

If you can't come up dozens of these things there's only one conclusion isn't there?

On the other hand here's how science has organised 2 million organisms into nested hierarchies, maybe you can show them where they're wrong.

https://tree.opentreeoflife.org/...rgus/opentree9.1@ott93302


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Dredge, posted 11-27-2017 5:11 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 3998
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 116 of 184 (824339)
11-27-2017 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Dredge
11-27-2017 5:11 AM


Re: platypus nested hierarchy
So when you wrote:

quote:
If you took the skeletons of all creatures in the world today, you could line them up to form lots of imaginary "evolutionary sequences". All you need to "join the dots" is a bit of imagination. You can play the same meaningless game with fossils.

you were either lying or you have no imagination?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Dredge, posted 11-27-2017 5:11 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 676
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 117 of 184 (824403)
11-28-2017 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Pressie
11-15-2017 3:51 AM


You have barked up the wrong tree twice in this one post. Your first Gould quote has nothing to do with my Gould quote. Your second Gould quote refers to Yung Erfers - I is not a Yung Erfer, but an Old Erfer. (Yung Erfers hate my beliefs in an old earth and a previous creation and some or them might even want to kill me to death ... or at least torture me for several days.)

In short, your attempt to out-Gould-quote me, while admirable, has failed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Pressie, posted 11-15-2017 3:51 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 676
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 118 of 184 (824404)
11-28-2017 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Tangle
11-15-2017 2:58 AM


Re: platypus nested hierarchy
The Nebraska Man tooth was "severely weathered". In keeping with the highest standards of science, Nebraska Man was invented on the basis of one old weathered tooth.

... which reminds me ... Did you know that in 1872, an attempt was made to elect Charles Darwin to the Zoological section of the French Institute, but he was rejected - on account of the theories proposed in his books being seen as "not science, but a mass of assertions and absolutely gratuitous hypotheses, often evidently fallacious."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Tangle, posted 11-15-2017 2:58 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Tangle, posted 11-28-2017 4:47 AM Dredge has responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 676
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 119 of 184 (824405)
11-28-2017 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by dwise1
11-16-2017 10:34 AM


Re: platypus nested hierarchy
quote:
In his objections to evolution, he included the evolution of wings. Now, wings are modified forelimbs, but in his "objection" he had wings being additional limbs such that the end result would be like the popular image of angels with legs, arms, and wings. I questioned that on the spot and he realized his mistake.

Er, yeah; that's ... deep.

When you say, "wings are modified forelimbs", is that anything like how the wings on flying pigs are modified ribs? What I mean is, wings are not "modified forelimbs" anymore than Tooth fairies are modified butterflies.

And do you realise that in order for a lizard to fly, it needs much going on than just the acquisition of wings? Have you ever considered the possibility that your forelimbs-to-wings theory is just a silly and childish story that has no basis in fact?

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by dwise1, posted 11-16-2017 10:34 AM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by ringo, posted 11-28-2017 11:09 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 127 by dwise1, posted 11-28-2017 3:33 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5235
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 120 of 184 (824407)
11-28-2017 4:47 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by Dredge
11-28-2017 3:21 AM


Re: platypus nested hierarchy
Dredge writes:

The Nebraska Man tooth was "severely weathered". In keeping with the highest standards of science, Nebraska Man was invented on the basis of one old weathered tooth.

And your point is what? That a find made it into the press almost 100 years ago, was regarded as inconclusive by science at the time, then formally rejected by science 5 years later.

Are you saying that you're impressed by the ability of science to research its findings thoroughly before accepting them as knowledge or what?

... which reminds me ... Did you know that in 1872, an attempt was made to elect Charles Darwin to the Zoological section of the French Institute, but he was rejected - on account of the theories proposed in his books being seen as "not science, but a mass of assertions and absolutely gratuitous hypotheses, often evidently fallacious."

So 150 years ago Charles Darwin didn't get into a french institute. Wow, that must mean that everything written about evolution in the next 150 years must be wrong.

I was so worried about this that I spent 3 minutes googling what Darwin was a member of and what awards he won when he was alive. Apparently Italy and Germany liked him he was granted membership of the Turin Academy and the Berlin Academy, and, of course several London Academies. Then there were his gongs

quote:
Awards that he received were the Royal Medal in 1853 (The royal medal was awarded annually to only 3 people by the Royal Society) the royal medal is given to those for the most important contributions to the natural knowledge, The Wallaston Medal in 1859, the Wallaston medal is specifically scientific award for geology, it is the highest award that is granted award given by the Geological Society of London , and The Copley Medal in 1853 (Also distributed by the Royal Society) is given to those for outstanding achievements in the research in any of the branches of science, and it alternates between the physical sciences and biological studies. These are the some of the awards that recognized Charles Darwin for his work.

I'm sure there's more but really...do you think that the French Institute still rejects the theory of evolution or do you think they might now think that they made one of the biggest mistakes in their history? I've a hunch that they now accept the ToE don't you? Red faces all round, that's politics for you, if you deny the truth sooner or later it will slap you in the face.

Do you understand that even if Darwin's work had received no plaudits at all, it would still stand? Do you understand that after 150 years, his work still stands when developments in genetics and cell biology could quite easily have proven him wrong?

Do you understand that this isn't religion? We don't worship infallible scientists and claim inerrant writings just because they're old. Science grows and modifies and if it's found to be in error it corrects.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Dredge, posted 11-28-2017 3:21 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Dredge, posted 11-30-2017 4:24 AM Tangle has responded

  
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