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Author Topic:   Finally, some real news about the Mueller indictments
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2 of 122 (822657)
10-31-2017 3:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
10-31-2017 2:47 AM


Fake Or Real? How To Tell
Faith writes:
. I'll say it's honest, it's not fake news for a change, an amazing change, but something I'd expect to find at Infowars or Drudge or FrontPage Mag or other conservative sites. It's such a breath of fresh air I had to post it.
I'm not taking sides here...but I have to know how one tells whether an article is fake or factual. All I see here is one opinion...but I don't necessarily see any facts that would lead me to believe that this article is any truer than the headlines I read every day. Seriously...I want to know how I can tell from what I read (especially in the opinion section of these news sources) whats real and whats fake. It sounds to me as if a giant propaganda war is happening in our country...and I want to know how to tell the reality from the fantasy.
As a counterexample, I just read this article, which also leaves me more confused than ever over what actually is going on.
New York Times Opinion Section writes:
The Plot Against America by MICHELLE GOLDBERG
Editor’s note: The opinions in this article are the author’s, as published by our content partner, and do not necessarily represent the views of MSN or Microsoft.
On Monday morning, after America learned that Donald Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, and Manafort’s lobbying partner, Rick Gates, had been indicted and turned themselves in to federal authorities, the president tried to distance himself from the unfolding scandal. Sorry, but this is years ago, before Paul Manafort was part of the Trump campaign, the president wrote in one tweet. A few minutes later, he added, in another, Also, there is NO COLLUSION!
At almost the exact same time, news broke suggesting that the F.B.I. has evidence of collusion. We learned that one of the Trump campaign’s foreign policy aides, George Papadopoulos, pleaded guilty to lying to the F.B.I. about his attempts to solicit compromising information on Hillary Clinton from the Russian government. Despite Trump’s hysterical denials and attempts at diversion, the question is no longer whether there was cooperation between Trump’s campaign and Russia, but how extensive it was.
In truth, that’s been clear for a while. If it’s sometimes hard to grasp the Trump campaign’s conspiracy against our democracy, it’s due less to lack of proof than to the impudent improbability of its B-movie plotline. Monday’s indictments offer evidence of things that Washington already knows but pretends to forget. Trump, more gangster than entrepreneur, has long surrounded himself with bottom-feeding scum, and for all his nationalist bluster, his campaign was a vehicle for Russian subversion.
We already knew that Manafort offered private briefings about the campaign to Oleg Deripaska, an oligarch close to President Vladimir Putin of Russia. The indictment accuses him of having been an unregistered foreign agent for another Putin-aligned oligarch, the former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych. Trump wasn’t paying Manafort, who reportedly sold himself to the candidate by offering to work free. But he intended to profit from his connection with the campaign, emailing an associate, How do we use to get whole? If there were no other evidence against Trump, we could conclude that he was grotesquely irresponsible in opening his campaign up to corrupt foreign infiltration.
But of course, there is other evidence against Trump. His campaign was told that Russia wanted to help it, and it welcomed such help. On June 3, remember, the music publicist Rob Goldstone emailed Donald Trump Jr. to broker a Trump Tower meeting at which a Russian source would deliver very high level and sensitive information as part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump. Trump Jr. responded with delight: If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.
The guilty plea by Papadopoulos indicates what information Trump Jr. might have been expecting. An obscure figure in foreign policy circles, Papadopoulos was one of five people who Trump listed as foreign policy advisers during a Washington Post editorial board meeting last year. A court filing, whose truth Papadopoulos affirms, says that in April 2016, he met with a professor who he understood to have substantial connections to Russian government officials. The professor told him that Russians had dirt on Clinton, including thousands of emails. (The Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta had been hacked in March.)
In the following months, Papadopoulos and his supervisors emailed back and forth about plans for a campaign trip to Russia. According to the court filing, one campaign official emailed another, We need someone to communicate that D.T. is not doing these trips. D.T. clearly stood for Donald Trump. The email continued, It should be someone low level in the campaign so as not to send any signal.
Thanks to an August Washington Post story, we know that this email was sent by Manafort. Some have interpreted the exchange to mean that Manafort wanted a low-level person to decline the invitation, not to go to Russia. But the court filing also cites a campaign supervisor encouraging Papadopoulos and another foreign policy adviser to make the trip. Papadopoulos never went to Russia, but the foreign policy adviser Carter Page did.
So here’s where we are. Trump put Manafort, an accused money-launderer and unregistered foreign agent, in charge of his campaign. Under Manafort’s watch, the campaign made at least two attempts to get compromising information about Clinton from Russia. Russia, in turn, provided hacked Democratic emails to WikiLeaks.
Russia also ran a giant disinformation campaign against Clinton on social media and attempted to hack voting systems in at least 21 states. In response to Russia’s election meddling, Barack Obama’s administration imposed sanctions. Upon taking office, Trump reportedly made secret efforts to lift them. He fired the F.B.I. director James Comey to stop his investigation into this Russia thing, as he told Lester Holt. The day after the firing, he met with Russia’s foreign minister and its ambassador to America, and told them: I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.
We’ve had a year of recriminations over the Clinton campaign’s failings, but Trump clawed out his minority victory only with the aid of a foreign intelligence service. On Monday we finally got indictments, but it’s been obvious for a year that this presidency is a crime.
So we have two entirely differing opinions, both published on MSN through their partners. How can I tell whether either one of them is closer to the facts?
Edited by Phat, : added jabberwocky

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 10-31-2017 2:47 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by PaulK, posted 10-31-2017 4:34 AM Phat has replied
 Message 6 by Faith, posted 10-31-2017 8:58 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 122 (822661)
10-31-2017 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by PaulK
10-31-2017 4:34 AM


Re: Fake Or Real? How To Tell

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by PaulK, posted 10-31-2017 4:34 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 16 of 122 (822692)
10-31-2017 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by jar
10-31-2017 6:10 AM


Re: Fake Or Real? How To Tell
Just read this at NPR: 'None Of This Is Real': Conservative Media Reacts To Mueller Indictments The article states:
quote:
The right-wing website Breitbart, run by former White House strategist Steve Bannon, acknowledged to readers that former Trump campaign adviser Papadopoulos pleaded guilty after lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russians and trying to purge his Facebook account. His guilty plea directly contradicts a claim made by conservative media for months that Mueller's entire probe is fake news.
This whole paradigm of two different news sources has me confused. Perhaps I should remember the whole idea of source vs content and re-evaluate what it is that I read.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by jar, posted 10-31-2017 6:10 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by ringo, posted 10-31-2017 1:11 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 56 of 122 (822757)
11-01-2017 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Percy
11-01-2017 11:00 AM


What Is The Alternative To Truth?
I predicted years ago that the next great war would be a war of ideas, ideologies, beliefs, and definitions. It seems we are in the early stages of this war.
They interviewed and are continuing to interview the tech giants who spread information via social media, such as Facebook, Google, and Twitter. Back in the fifties, it used to be simple truth vs lies...communists vs "good" democracies, but we have since learned that saints and sinners often share the same traits.
Mark Zuckerberg's Big Blind Spot And The Conflict Within Facebook
Zuckerberg himself acknowledges the power of social media and realizes that it can be used for good or evil. He didn't see this a year ago.
I have access to a lot of information. What I don't have access to is the truth. Truth is something that I have to choose and decide within myself.
Trying to google information is wise, so long as one can take all sides into consideration and use critical thinking skills to arrive at a personal opinion or belief. Trying to google truth is like checking your brains at the door.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Percy, posted 11-01-2017 11:00 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 57 of 122 (822760)
11-01-2017 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Percy
11-01-2017 8:15 AM


NYC Truck Attack Plus Trumps Tweet
Notice what Trump tweeted:
NPR writes:
President Trump took to Twitter to call the attacker "a very sick and deranged person", adding: "We must not allow ISIS [Islamic State] to return, or enter, our country after defeating them in the Middle East and elsewhere. Enough!"
The fact is, this man was sick. Not that he was a member of ISIS. I fear that incidents such as this combined with an authoritarian government will turn us into more of a police state. Thank God for an open media, at least.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Percy, posted 11-01-2017 8:15 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 11-01-2017 11:35 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 61 of 122 (822766)
11-01-2017 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
11-01-2017 11:40 AM


More About Fake News: How Do We Separate Truth from Fiction?
I just read an intersting article about a technique known as gaslighting.
used in politics, the article elaborates:
Wiki writes:
Bryant Welch states in his book State of Confusion: Political Manipulation and the Assault on the American Mind:
To say gaslighting was started by the Bushes, Lee Atwater, Karl Rove, Fox News, or any other extant or group is not simply wrong, it also misses an important point. Gaslighting comes directly from blending modern communications, marketing, and advertising techniques with long-standing methods of propaganda. They were simply waiting to be discovered by those with sufficient ambition and psychological makeup to use them.
They accuse Trump of gaslighting, but others would defend him in that he is simply using the tools of modern communication. Lets see if the shoe fits.
quote:
It (gaslighting) can be used to deflect attention away from the real issues, making it harder to fight against abuse.
According to Dr Stephanie Sarkis, tactics used involve:
1. They tell you blatant lies.
2. They deny they ever said something, even though you have proof.
3. They use what is near and dear to you as ammunition.
4. They wear you down over time.
5. Their actions do not match their words.
6. They throw in positive reinforcement to confuse you.
Comments?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 11-01-2017 11:40 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by ringo, posted 11-01-2017 3:21 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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