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Author Topic:   Texas Small Town Church Terrorism
ringo
Member
Posts: 13968
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 31 of 38 (823695)
11-15-2017 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
11-15-2017 2:40 PM


Re: Guns Pro and Con
Faith writes:

What we don't want to do is restrict reasonable gun possession from responsible people....


That's the problem. You can't tell the responsible people from the dangerous ones until they start shooting.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 11-15-2017 2:40 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 11-15-2017 2:52 PM ringo has responded

Faith
Member
Posts: 26711
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 32 of 38 (823696)
11-15-2017 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by ringo
11-15-2017 2:50 PM


Re: Guns Pro and Con
I don't think that's true. The church shooter was already known to be dangerous, the question is why he was allowed to have guns. There should have been clues in many of the other cases too if anyone was paying attention.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by ringo, posted 11-15-2017 2:50 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 11-15-2017 3:06 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13968
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 33 of 38 (823702)
11-15-2017 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
11-15-2017 2:52 PM


Re: Guns Pro and Con
Faith writes:

There should have been clues in many of the other cases too if anyone was paying attention.


Unless there are clues in every other case, you won't solve anything. Sometimes the shooting is the first clue. And you can't stop fathers from accidentally shooting their daughters or babies from accidentally shooting their mothers by looking for warning signs.

Sometimes the obvious answer is the right one: You're safer without a gun.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 11-15-2017 2:52 PM Faith has not yet responded

frako
Member
Posts: 2716
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 34 of 38 (823732)
11-16-2017 6:11 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
11-15-2017 2:40 PM


Re: Guns Pro and Con
The guy who shot up the church should have been denied guns already because of his mental condition.

Dint trump ban obamas ban on the mentaly ill having guns?

What we don't want to do is restrict reasonable gun possession from responsible people, but be able to keep them out of the hands of the dangerous ones.

Util that reasonable person has a bad day and he/she snaps.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 11-15-2017 2:40 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by NoNukes, posted 11-16-2017 1:00 PM frako has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10119
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 35 of 38 (823765)
11-16-2017 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by frako
11-16-2017 6:11 AM


Re: Guns Pro and Con
Dint trump ban obamas ban on the mentaly ill having guns?

Maybe.

But I do think it is fair to point out that this guy had guns despite the fact that laws currently on the books already made it illegal for him to have guns. If I recall correctly, the shooter was convicted and booted out of the armed forces for committing a domestic violence offense that should have prevented him from purchasing guns, but somebody failed to enter the proper information in some computer.

Util that reasonable person has a bad day and he/she snaps.

The US has a messed up obsession with guns. It is the very enshrinement of our obsession with guns into the Constitution that is responsible for this mess. I'd like to believe that absent that, the issue would have been resolved in a way similar to what other democracies have done so. But then we still have f'd up health care and there is no constitutional obstacle to solving that.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by frako, posted 11-16-2017 6:11 AM frako has not yet responded

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6210
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 36 of 38 (823803)
11-17-2017 4:42 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
11-13-2017 11:06 AM


Re: Guns Pro and Con
Phat writes:

quote:
And yet if we enact laws to outlaw gun ownership, the critic's standard reply is that the outlaws (or dictatorships or organized criminals) will still have guns and that the average citizen has no weapon against them.

Strange how all those other countries that restrict guns more severely than we do don't seem to have a rash of criminals wielding guns. If controlling guns means only criminals have guns, why aren't all the criminals going to the countries that control guns?

Only the US has a mass shooting (meaning four or more people wounded and/or killed) nearly every single day. Is that what is meant by "American exceptionalism"?

quote:
Just in the recent shooting in Texas, only a quick-acting neighbor with a gun was able to stop the killer from causing more collateral damage.

Hmmm...and if he didn't have a gun in the first place, nobody would have been shot in the first place.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 11-13-2017 11:06 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6210
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 37 of 38 (823804)
11-17-2017 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Phat
11-14-2017 11:25 PM


Re: Guns Pro and Con
Phat writes:

quote:
The state should not meddle in peoples freedoms and rights.

First: You have the right to kill people?

Second: The state most definitely *should* meddle for no right is absolute. See the first point.

After all, the Second Amendment directly and specifically states that your right to own a gun is in relation to the need for a "well-regulated" militia.

Exactly where do you think that "well-regulated" part is going to come from? That's right: The government.

The Second Amendment directly and specifically states that the government is going to tell you what it is you can and cannot do with a gun. The Supreme Court's decision that your right to own a gun was a personal right was literally predicated upon the idea that the "well-regulated" part didn't actually mean anything and is to be ignored.

Your libertarian claptrap is showing, Phat. You seem to be of the opinion that you are an island and anybody who gets hurt by your actions only has themselves to blame.

I seem to recall something in your religious text about being your "brother's keeper." Your actions have consequences and thus, you are beholden to the people around you. No freedom is absolute. No right is absolute.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 11-14-2017 11:25 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 11-17-2017 11:33 AM Rrhain has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10230
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 38 of 38 (823812)
11-17-2017 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Rrhain
11-17-2017 4:49 AM


Re: Guns Pro and Con
Lets take this topic over to Gun Control III as the Texas shooting is no longer front page news. (That was a good reply, however. You make me think.)

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Rrhain, posted 11-17-2017 4:49 AM Rrhain has not yet responded

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