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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
ringo
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Posts: 14907
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 151 of 235 (830444)
03-29-2018 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Tangle
03-28-2018 6:21 PM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
xongsmith writes:

However, a well-regulated militia certainly does not mean to be including every militia.


But the 2nd Amendment is interpreted as if everybody is entitled to bear arms, isn't it?

ABE: Sorry, replied to the wrong post.

Edited by ringo, : No reason given.


An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Tangle, posted 03-28-2018 6:21 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Percy
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Posts: 17569
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 152 of 235 (830452)
03-29-2018 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Faith
03-27-2018 9:09 PM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
Faith writes:

The problem with a table like that is that particular areas in the US have a lot more gun deaths because they are crime-ridden areas, inner city areas where the statistics are enormously high. To include those statistics really doesn't give an accurate figure for the nation as a whole.

You don't think Mexico City has a higher gun death rate than the rest of Mexico?

You don't think Johannesburg has a higher gun death rate than the rest of South Africa?

You don't think Helsinki has a higher gun death rate than the rest of Finland?

You get the idea, but to spell it out, many, many cities around the world, not just those in the US, have what you call "crime-ridden areas, inner city areas".

Those aren't the areas where the second amendment is held in high esteem either,...

First, the difference between those on opposite sides of the gun control debate is not in their degree of reverence for the 2nd amendment. If you ignore those at both extremes then I think the rest of us mostly agree. None of us think weapons of war belong in the hands of civilians. None of us think the high gun death rate in the US is tolerable. None of us think just anyone should be allowed to own guns. None of us think guns should be completely unregulated.

We all revere the Bill of Rights, but as I've described before, the passage of time has rendered a few bits of it anachronistic, and one of those bits lies in the 2nd amendment.

...they are just violent criminals whose guns are mostly illegal anyway.

They are human beings making their way the best they can in the circumstances they've been dealt, just like you.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Faith, posted 03-27-2018 9:09 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Faith, posted 03-29-2018 7:30 PM Percy has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29154
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 153 of 235 (830453)
03-29-2018 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Percy
03-29-2018 3:48 PM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
Yes I don't think those foreign cities have a crime area the way some of our cities do. Perhaps you could show me otherw2ise.

Yes criminals are human beings too, and yes I could conceivably have had the kind of experiences that made me a criminal too. So what? That doesn't change the fact that there is such a thing as people who live by violence and murdering other people, who are fairly called "criminals," and by the grace of God I don't happen to. So what?

So apparently you don't think there is sufficient disparity in the population density of different parts of a state to make your statistics questionable?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Percy, posted 03-29-2018 3:48 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Percy, posted 03-30-2018 10:57 AM Faith has responded

    
ICANT
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Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 154 of 235 (830455)
03-30-2018 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
11-16-2017 1:12 PM


Problem
Hi Phat

Phat writes:

Speaking personally, I observe that we live in a violent society, one that is often on edge.

Have you pondered why we live in such a violent society?

When people are taught that there is no higher authority than themselves and they come to believe that they can do anything they desire to do. They then lose respect for themselves. When they have no respect for themselves they will have no respect for others or other peoples property.

They reach this position when they are not required to obey any rules or regulations. And when they do no obey rules there is no punishment.

Now a little information on the subject of guns and rules.
Do gun laws reduce violence?
In the early 1900s, when few laws existed homicide was at its lowest.
In the 1910's and 20's some states passed laws regulating purchase and carrying of handguns but homicide and suicide tended to rise not go down.
Machine guns and sawed-off shotguns were banned in 1934 but rates did not go down.
The Gun Control Act of 1968 required records of the buyer's identity and banned sales by mail or to felons or mental patients. Homicide and suicide rose after its passage.
A waiting period for handgun purchases (the Brady law) and restriction of "assault" weapons went into effect in 1994.
Two studies of the Brady law showed no effect.

In 2014 there was a total of 11,981, homicide's, 8,124 of those were by firearms.
There was 246 of those death caused by AK 47's and AR 15's and all other rifles.
The AK 47's and AR 15's are what everyone wants to ban.
During this same time 1,567 homicides were committed with knives and other cutting instruments.
During the same time 660 homicides were committed with personal weapons such as fist, feet, etc.
During the same time 435 homicides were committed with blunt objects, clubs, hammers, etc.
During the same year there were 32,675 deaths by automobiles.

Cutting instruments were used 6.3999 to one rifle usage.
Personal weapons were used 2.68 to one rifle usage.
Blunt objects were used 1.76 to one rifle usage.
Automobile deaths occurred 132.82 to one rifle death.

I have never heard anyone advocate we ban knives, fists, feet, clubs, and hammers. Nor has anyone suggested we go back to the horse and buggy days to save lives.

But let me state here that the AK 47 and AR 15 are not assault weapons unless it does have the bump stock to make it fire automatically. The bump stock would affect the accuracy of the rifle.

In the military I used assault weapons which were fully automatic, but they were banned in 1934 from private ownership without a special license to own one. We had some that would fire at the rate of 900 times per minute. We just did not have clips that would hold that many bullets. We did have weapons that would fire fast enough and long enough to begin to melt the barrel if you did not release the trigger. That is an assault weapon.

There are those that propose to repeal the 2nd amendment. That would take 38 states to ratify such a change,.

The reason for the 2nd amendment in the first place was that every man would be armed which would cause any country contemplating an invasion they would not do so knowing there was a gun in every house. It was also to make sure that those in power would never be able to take over the country and install a dictatorship.

To accomplish such a feat all the guns would have to be taken away from the people so they could not resist.

As long as the people are armed we will not have a dictator although there are a lot of people in Washington who think they are our dictator's. In other words they don't work for the voters they think they are elected to go to Washington and vote their conscience regardless of what their constituents want.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 17569
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 155 of 235 (830457)
03-30-2018 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Faith
03-29-2018 7:30 PM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
Faith writes:

Yes I don't think those foreign cities have a crime area the way some of our cities do.

Well that's a pretty weird thing to think, that foreign cities don't tend to have higher crime rates and sketchy areas the same as American cities. Why would you think something as weird as that? Wasn't it you who repeated the fake news claim that Muslim no-go zones were scattered all across Europe? Oh, yeah, it was you, Message 571 in the The 2016 United States Presidential Election thread.

Perhaps you could show me otherw2ise.

You want evidence of the obvious? Sure. Here's some information about crime/sketchy areas for some typical western cities:

  • Mexico City: Highest crime borough is Iztapalapa, about which Wikipedia says, "Crime is also a major problem, with much of it related to drug trafficking and poverty." Image of Mexico City slum:

  • Johannesurg, South Africa: Image of Johannesburg slums:

  • Paris, France: Banlieues of Paris are high crime rate areas about which Wikipedia says:

    quote:
    However, since the 1970s, banlieues increasingly means, in French of France, low-income housing projects (HLMs) in which mainly foreign immigrants and French of foreign descent reside, in what are often called poverty traps.

  • Toronto, Canada: Waterfront is by far the most dangerous area in the city.

  • Lisbon, Portugal: Image of Lisbon slums:

  • London, England: The Lambeth area has by far the most homicides.

  • Berlin, Germany: Image of slums:

  • Naples, Italy: Image of slums:

  • Barcelona, Spain: Image of Barcelona slums:

  • Buenos Aires, Argentine: Image of slums:

Yes criminals are human beings too, and yes I could conceivably have had the kind of experiences that made me a criminal too. So what?

It is not "So what?" It is, "There but for the grace of God go I."

That doesn't change the fact that there is such a thing as people who live by violence and murdering other people, who are fairly called "criminals," and by the grace of God I don't happen to. So what?

It is not "So what?" We are all human beings and products of our environment. Should not our greatest concern be for those who have not been the beneficiaries of gifts that are in reality mere happenstance and serendipity?

So apparently you don't think there is sufficient disparity in the population density of different parts of a state to make your statistics questionable?

As you say, math is not your strong point, but go ahead, explain why non-uniform population densities of countries make gun death rates by country a questionable basis for comparing the gun death rates of countries.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Remove erroneous image of London slums.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Faith, posted 03-29-2018 7:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 03-30-2018 11:50 AM Percy has responded
 Message 159 by caffeine, posted 03-30-2018 5:30 PM Percy has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29154
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 156 of 235 (830458)
03-30-2018 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Percy
03-30-2018 10:57 AM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
Images of slums, no mention of crime statistics there. ABE: Correction, high crime rates are mentioned for London and Mexico City and Paris, and Toronto's waterfront is said to be "dangerous" but I still doubt the incidence is anywhere near ours, and most aren't gun deaths either. Paris is all foreigners too, and I'm not sure how that fits into this.

Isn't the subject gun deaths? Instead you seem to be on one of your rants against me personally for some reason. I know Mexico City is big on crime, drugs mostly I believe, rather than poor people in the slums, and crime areas LIKE OURS means gun deaths. But what do I know since you didn't deal with the question.

I explained my thinking about disparity in population density at the start of this topic (Message 143). I'm sure you disagree but you haven't said how yet.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Percy, posted 03-30-2018 10:57 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Faith, posted 03-30-2018 12:28 PM Faith has not yet responded
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Faith
Member
Posts: 29154
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 157 of 235 (830459)
03-30-2018 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Faith
03-30-2018 11:50 AM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
Sure I can feel sorry for criminals, and especially for their victims who also live in those areas and don't commit crimes. It's utterly irrelevant to the topic but you are on a rant, as I said, trying to find something to accuse me of.

But I do wonder if you would say the Mafia are "just making their way the best they can?"

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 03-30-2018 11:50 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 158 of 235 (830460)
03-30-2018 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by ICANT
03-30-2018 2:22 AM


Re: Problem
When people are taught that there is no higher authority than themselves and they come to believe that they can do anything they desire to do. They then lose respect for themselves. When they have no respect for themselves they will have no respect for others or other peoples property.

See, normally that would be a series of code words meaning 'atheists are to blame' - but that clearly doesn't make sense. America is one of the most religious countries in Western Civilization. So since that can't be what you mean - who is teaching this? Are you saying that since god is imaginary, religious people are being taught that they are the highest authority? That seems unlikely too. So this is either lazy theory that doesn't mean anything specific - or you had something in mind I can't decipher.

There was 246 of those death caused by AK 47's and AR 15's and all other rifles.
The AK 47's and AR 15's are what everyone wants to ban.

Personally I want to ban handguns - but the feeling is that mass shootings and semi-automatic rifles are related and I wouldn't be terribly sad to see them go...

I have never heard anyone advocate we ban knives, fists, feet, clubs, and hammers.

Almost like there was some reason for that.

Nor has anyone suggested we go back to the horse and buggy days to save lives.

Probably because it wouldn't save lives.

But let me state here that the AK 47 and AR 15 are not assault weapons

That's a piece of pedantry that's no longer particularly relevant. What someone calls the weapon, doesn't change the weapon.

There are those that propose to repeal the 2nd amendment. That would take 38 states to ratify such a change

Well....yes. And?

The reason for the 2nd amendment in the first place was that every man would be armed which would cause any country contemplating an invasion they would not do so knowing there was a gun in every house.

And yet not even the majority of houses has a gun - and invading the USA does not seem to be on anyone's agenda.

It was also to make sure that those in power would never be able to take over the country and install a dictatorship.

That wouldn't work, and it hasn't worked. Furthermore: It's not like Hitler's private militia were waving bananas around.

As long as the people are armed we will not have a dictator although there are a lot of people in Washington who think they are our dictator's. In other words they don't work for the voters they think they are elected to go to Washington and vote their conscience regardless of what their constituents want.

Exactly. And anybody who takes up arms against them finds out why that doesn't really work all that well.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by ICANT, posted 03-30-2018 2:22 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Faith, posted 03-30-2018 5:49 PM Modulous has responded
 Message 175 by ICANT, posted 04-02-2018 1:34 AM Modulous has responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1456
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 159 of 235 (830464)
03-30-2018 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Percy
03-30-2018 10:57 AM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
There have been many wrong things written in this thread, but I'm going to start with the low-hanging fruit:

London, England: The Lambeth area has by far the most homicides. Image of London slums:

You have obviously never been to London, nor seen it on TV. That is a photo of Rio de Janeiro. Lambeth looks like this:


This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Percy, posted 03-30-2018 10:57 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 29154
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 160 of 235 (830465)
03-30-2018 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by caffeine
03-30-2018 5:30 PM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
Of course. I didn't think that looked like London.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by caffeine, posted 03-30-2018 5:30 PM caffeine has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29154
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 161 of 235 (830466)
03-30-2018 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Modulous
03-30-2018 2:57 PM


The root cause is spiritual
When people are taught that there is no higher authority than themselves and they come to believe that they can do anything they desire to do. They then lose respect for themselves. When they have no respect for themselves they will have no respect for others or other peoples property.

See, normally that would be a series of code words meaning 'atheists are to blame' - but that clearly doesn't make sense. America is one of the most religious countries in Western Civilization. So since that can't be what you mean - who is teaching this?

Are you saying that since god is imaginary, religious people are being taught that they are the highest authority? That seems unlikely too. So this is either lazy theory that doesn't mean anything specific - or you had something in mind I can't decipher.

I'm not sure why you can't decipher this, unless maybe as a Brit your experience has been that different from Americans' over the last few decades. I agree with ICANT, the loss of belief in God, or at least acknowledgment of God even at the cultural level even by nonChristians, that has been growing over the last century, does mean that people no longer have a solid authority for good behavior, or a fear of God to keep us from committing all the sins in the book. America WAS a truly Christian nation but it isn't any more. I'm speaking about the culture at large, but I think personal belief has also been drastically falling.

Not sure where it started but getting prayer thrown out of the schools thanks to Madalyn Murray O'Hare is often thought to be the starting point. We've been throwing out all the cultural Christian trappings on the basis of the First Amendment of all things, getting rid of the Ten Commandments and anything else that might remind us that w are spiritual beings answerable to our Creator.

Most at EvC applaud these developments, surprising you aren't aware of them. I rather consciously flouted all, well most of, the commandments when I was younger because I believed it was all false since that's what we were being told. So I believed that evolution was true and I had no moral obligation beyond what made sense to me: "everybody did what was right in their own eyes."

ABE: P.S.

The reason for the 2nd amendment in the first place was that every man would be armed which would cause any country contemplating an invasion they would not do so knowing there was a gun in every house.

And yet not even the majority of houses has a gun - and invading the USA does not seem to be on anyone's agenda.

Invading the US would rapidly show up on some agendas if we were completely disarmed.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Modulous, posted 03-30-2018 2:57 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Modulous, posted 03-30-2018 11:08 PM Faith has responded
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Percy
Member
Posts: 17569
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 162 of 235 (830468)
03-30-2018 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Faith
03-30-2018 11:50 AM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
Replying to your last two messages to me...

Replying to your Message 156:

Faith writes:

Images of slums,...

In Message 153 you said, "I don't think those foreign cities have a crime area the way some of our cities do," so I showed images of slums which are sources of crime. Slums are typically found in cities.

...no mention of crime statistics there.

Here is proof that the level of crime in most cities I listed is greater than for the country as a whole, just like here in America (source: Numbeo Crime):

City, CountryCity Crime RateCountry Crime Rate
Mexico City, Mexico76.7957.92
Johannesburg, South Africa87.7383.52
Paris, France56.1247.94
Toronto, Canada36.6241.64
Lisbon, Portugal28.9731.00
London, England57.5245.91
Berlin, Germany40.6438.48
Naples, Italy67.2646.28
Barcelona, Spain46.1432.77
Buenos Aires72.8872.55

In most cases the city crime rate is higher than the country crime rate, just as here in the United States, where there are also a few exceptions. For example, New York City has a lower crime rate (47.7) than the country as a whole (56.66), but most US cities have a higher crime rate than the country as a whole. This is true of most cities around the world.

ABE: Correction, high crime rates are mentioned for London and Mexico City and Paris, and Toronto's waterfront is said to be "dangerous" but I still doubt the incidence is anywhere near ours,...

Crime rates vary widely around the world, as much because of anything real as because of differences in statistical gathering and analysis techniques. Here's Crime Rate by Country. And here's the list of the cities I provided before ordered by crime rate, except this time I've included a number of the larger American cities:

City, CountryCity Crime Rate
Lisbon, Portugal28.97
Toronto, Canada36.62
Berlin, Germany40.64
Barcelona, Spain46.14
New York, United States47.7*
Dallas, United States50.0*
Los Angeles, United States54.19*
San Francisco, United States54.41*
Paris, France56.12
London, England57.52
Phoenix, United States64.38*
Naples, Italy67.26
Philadelphia, United States69.10*
Houston, United States71.64*
Buenos Aires72.88
Mexico City, Mexico76.79
Chicago, United States77.35*
Johannesburg, South Africa87.73

I've put asterisks in the final column to mark the US cities so they stand out. The US cities seem to be scattered evenly around the table. It would seem that your sense that the incidence of crime in foreign cities is nowhere near ours is incorrect.

...and most aren't gun deaths either. Paris is all foreigners too, and I'm not sure how that fits into this.

Paris is a very multi-cultural city, but still 9.1 of the 11.7 million people (77%) are of French birth. But New York City is pretty close to Paris at 81.8%. Only 60% of the population of Los Angeles was born in the United States, making it more international than Paris.

Isn't the subject gun deaths?

Yes.

Instead you seem to be on one of your rants against me personally for some reason.

You replied to my Message 138 about gun deaths by claiming in your Message 141 that the reason was because "crime-ridden areas, inner city areas" are more common in the US than elsewhere:

Faith in Message 141 writes:

The problem with a table like that is that particular areas in the US have a lot more gun deaths because they are crime-ridden areas, inner city areas where the statistics are enormously high.

I have now shown your assumption that American cities have higher "crime-ridden areas, inner city areas" than foreign cities to be false. Therefore that can't be the reason that American cities have more gun deaths. It must be because American cities have more guns.

Back to the current message:

I know Mexico City is big on crime, drugs mostly I believe, rather than poor people in the slums, and crime areas LIKE OURS means gun deaths.

Again, that American cities have more gun deaths because of "crime areas LIKE OURS" turns out to have been based upon your false premise that crime rates in American cities are higher than foreign cities.

But what do I know since you didn't deal with the question.

I quoted what you said before replying precisely to it.

I explained my thinking about disparity in population density at the start of this topic (Message 143). I'm sure you disagree but you haven't said how yet.

I think you said one accurate thing in that message: "I'm not very good at math." Your example of New York City was poorly chosen since it has a lower crime rate than the rest of the state. It also likely has a lower gun death rate than the rest of the state. The gun death rate in New York City is very low (couldn't find definitive numbers, but the murder rate is 2.7, which is probably mostly guns), while in New York State it is 4.4 (a little more than half are suicides).

Replying to your Message 157:

Faith writes:

Sure I can feel sorry for criminals, and especially for their victims who also live in those areas and don't commit crimes. It's utterly irrelevant to the topic but you are on a rant, as I said, trying to find something to accuse me of.

I was responding to where you said in Message 141, "Those aren't the areas where the second amendment is held in high esteem either, they are just violent criminals whose guns are mostly illegal anyway."

But I do wonder if you would say the Mafia are "just making their way the best they can?"

We are a product of our environment. The Mafia's a funny example since they no longer have much influence, but were you raised in a Mafia family you would be Mafia, just as were you raised in a Muslim family you would be Muslim. Were you black and raised in the inner city with an absent father, poor education and lack of opportunity and options, the odds that you would be in trouble with the law by age 20 would have been much higher. Had that been your life instead of the one you actually led, would it have right to dismiss you as a "violent criminal"?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 03-30-2018 11:50 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 03-30-2018 6:05 PM Percy has responded
 Message 179 by Faith, posted 04-02-2018 4:54 PM Percy has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29154
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 163 of 235 (830469)
03-30-2018 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Percy
03-30-2018 5:59 PM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
Had that been your life instead of the one you actually led, would it have right to dismiss you as a "violent criminal"?

I didn't "dismiss" anybody. You are making things up I didn't say. I was speaking objectively and descriptively by calling criminals criminals. You are getting so PC you can't even follow a conversation. And if I were a violent criminal of course it would be right to CALL me a violent criminal. Sheesh.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Percy, posted 03-30-2018 5:59 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Percy, posted 03-30-2018 6:22 PM Faith has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17569
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 164 of 235 (830470)
03-30-2018 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by caffeine
03-30-2018 5:30 PM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
Thanks for the correction. Must have been a bad cut-n-paste of the image URL. The image of London slums I found wasn't of Lambeth, I'll see if I can track it down later. But whether I can find the image or not the point still stands. Most cities have their sketchy areas. This quality is not unique to American cities as Faith was trying to claim.

--Percy


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 Message 159 by caffeine, posted 03-30-2018 5:30 PM caffeine has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17569
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 165 of 235 (830471)
03-30-2018 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Faith
03-30-2018 6:05 PM


Re: Repeal the 2nd Amendment? Seriously?
Faith writes:

Had that been your life instead of the one you actually led, would it have right to dismiss you as a "violent criminal"?

I didn't "dismiss" anybody. You are making things up I didn't say.

Since I quoted your actual words, it isn't possible that I made up things you didn't say. Here are your words from Message 141 again:

Faith in Message 141 writes:

Those aren't the areas where the second amendment is held in high esteem either, they are just violent criminals whose guns are mostly illegal anyway.

You referred to people living in such areas ("crime-ridden areas, inner city areas") as violent criminals.

I was speaking objectively and descriptively by calling criminals criminals. You are getting so PC you can't even follow a conversation. And if I were a violent criminal of course it would be right to CALL me a violent criminal. Sheesh.

You weren't calling a violent criminal a violent criminal. You were calling people who lived in those areas violent criminals.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 03-30-2018 6:05 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Faith, posted 03-30-2018 6:50 PM Percy has responded
 Message 178 by Faith, posted 04-02-2018 3:50 PM Percy has responded

    
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