Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 79 (8870 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 10-15-2018 9:40 PM
264 online now:
Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus), ramoss, Tanypteryx (3 members, 261 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: paradigm of types
Post Volume:
Total: 840,321 Year: 15,144/29,783 Month: 1,088/1,502 Week: 86/492 Day: 49/37 Hour: 2/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
2324
25
2627
...
30Next
Author Topic:   Gun Control III
Aussie
Member
Posts: 196
From: Sanford, FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 362 of 447 (840596)
10-02-2018 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by Faith
10-02-2018 3:27 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hey you're right. I didn't know that was the context, I always thought it was about being insulted. So it is about personal injury -- although the examples are not life-threatening, losing an eye or a tooth.

Hi Faith! There is absolutely nothing wrong with being wrong sometimes, and I respect people who admit it when they make a mistake. But I would like to just point out that you regularly talk down your nose at atheists who point out evident contradictions in Scripture. You like to talk about your many years of Biblical study, and years of reading the best commentaries from the most serious theological minds...yet you didn't understand the context of one of the more frequently-quoted lines of Scripture, whereas it was was immediately clear to some of the resident atheists.

Again, nothing but respect for admitting your error, but a little humility about the limitations of our knowledge goes a long way.

abe: I see while I was typing this response you continued:

No, you just like your own interpretations, I don't get it wrong very often at all.

There she is; the old Faith back in standard form. I wondered where she'd gotten off to.

Edited by Aussie, : No reason given.


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 3:27 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 4:13 PM Aussie has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29820
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 363 of 447 (840599)
10-02-2018 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 361 by ringo
10-02-2018 4:00 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Here's a typical commentary from Got Questions on that command, and I didn't get it all that wrong, just hadn't remembered the context. But as I said it's about personal retaliation, not self defense in serious life-threatening situations.

To "turn the other cheek" does not imply pacifism, nor does it mean we place ourselves or others in mortal danger. Like the principle of the eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth in Matthew 5:38, turning the other cheek refers to personal retaliation, not criminal offenses or acts of military aggression. Clearly, Jesus did not mean to negate all Godís laws and injunctions protecting us against violent crime or invading armies. Rather, Jesus is speaking here of the principle of non-retaliation to affronts against our own dignity, as well as lawsuits to gain oneís personal assets (v. 40), infringements on oneís liberty (v. 41), and violations of property rights (v. 42). He was calling for a full surrender of all personal rights.

Turns out it IS about being insulted too.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:00 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:19 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29820
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 364 of 447 (840601)
10-02-2018 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by Aussie
10-02-2018 4:01 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Thanks but no thanks. Unbelievers do not know how to read the Bible and even if I get stuff out of context sometimes, overall believers have the wherewithal to understand God's word and unbelievers don't. And when I point to my knowledge and the history of theology IT OUGHT TO BE RESPECTED. It's not mindless bragging. So thanks but no thanks.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by Aussie, posted 10-02-2018 4:01 PM Aussie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by Aussie, posted 10-02-2018 4:18 PM Faith has responded

    
Aussie
Member
Posts: 196
From: Sanford, FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 365 of 447 (840604)
10-02-2018 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by Faith
10-02-2018 4:13 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Unbelievers do not know how to read the Bible and even if I get stuff out of context sometimes, overall believers have the wherewithal to understand God's word and unbelievers don't.

Funny how the unbelievers got it right and you got it wrong there. And that's like, one of the more basic verses out there.

But we have to trust you on the "complex interpretations."


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 4:13 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 368 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 4:22 PM Aussie has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15398
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 366 of 447 (840605)
10-02-2018 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by Faith
10-02-2018 4:09 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Faith writes:

But as I said it's about personal retaliation, not self defense in serious lift=threatening situations.


Well, it doesn't say that. After being so blatantly, demonstrably wrong in the first place, it might behoove you to throttle back the arrogance a notch or two.

Maybe He wasn't refering to broader situations and maybe He was. There is no justification in the text for the position that you and Got Questions are taking.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 4:09 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 367 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 4:21 PM ringo has responded
 Message 372 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 4:31 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 29820
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 367 of 447 (840607)
10-02-2018 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 366 by ringo
10-02-2018 4:19 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
You don't know how to read the Bible, sorry.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:19 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:26 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29820
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 368 of 447 (840608)
10-02-2018 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 365 by Aussie
10-02-2018 4:18 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Turns out I wasn't wrong.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by Aussie, posted 10-02-2018 4:18 PM Aussie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by Aussie, posted 10-02-2018 4:30 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15398
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 369 of 447 (840612)
10-02-2018 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by Faith
10-02-2018 4:21 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Faith writes:

You don't know how to read the Bible, sorry.


I quoted it right to you. There's no excuse for your denial.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 4:21 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 370 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 4:27 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 29820
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 370 of 447 (840613)
10-02-2018 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 369 by ringo
10-02-2018 4:26 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Quote all you like, you don't know how to read it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:26 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Aussie
Member
Posts: 196
From: Sanford, FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 371 of 447 (840614)
10-02-2018 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 368 by Faith
10-02-2018 4:22 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Turns out I wasn't wrong.

Welcome back, "Faith Classic."

Of course your ego would not allow you to admit you were wrong for very long. But Faith's Kenosis was refreshing to see, even if it only lasted a single, abbreviated post. Go ahead and have the last word if you like. You being so wrong, yet seeping arrogance from your every pore is off topic, and I won't respond back.


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 4:22 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29820
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 372 of 447 (840615)
10-02-2018 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 366 by ringo
10-02-2018 4:19 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
It's unbelievers who are the arrogant ones who think they can better understand God's word against the entire history of the Church. THAT is the real arrogance here.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:19 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 4:40 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 376 by Percy, posted 10-02-2018 4:59 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15398
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 373 of 447 (840619)
10-02-2018 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by Faith
10-02-2018 4:27 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Faith writes:

Quote all you like, you don't know how to read it.


You're just twisting it.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 4:27 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15398
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 374 of 447 (840620)
10-02-2018 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by Faith
10-02-2018 4:31 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Faith writes:

It's unbelievers who are the arrogant ones who think they can better understand God's word against the entire history of the Church.


The truth is the truth, no matter how much you deny it, twist it or lie about it.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 4:31 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17736
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 375 of 447 (840623)
10-02-2018 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by ICANT
10-02-2018 1:14 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
ICANT writes:

Percy writes:

You are, like Jar, merely bragging about how safe you are with guns.

Yes but if everybody had my training and followed what they were taught there would be no accidental shootings period.

Again, you are, like Jar, merely bragging about how safe you are with guns. Do you get the irony of protesting that you're not really bragging about how safe you are with guns by bragging again about how safe you are with guns, that if everyone were more like you then there wouldn't be any accidental shootings?

There are no perfect humans. This means no perfect plumbers, electricians, carpenters, doctors, drivers or gun owners. When you carry your weapons in public then you become a public menace.

But people like jar and myself are not going to go on a shooting spree and kill a bunch of people.

Is it impossible that neither you nor Jar could ever become mentally ill or despondent or depressed or violently angry or decrepit or mentally infirm, etc? Is it impossible that neither you nor Jar could ever be careless or make a mistake or drink too much or exercise poor judgment, etc? These are rhetorical questions. Except for the most conceitedly in denial, the answer is that you are both human and imperfect and of course these things are possible.

Those people are going to exist whether gun ownership is allowed or banned.

Those people? You're one of those people. You all deny that arming yourselves presents any danger because, you brag, of how wonderful you are with guns and how important it is to be able to defend yourselves against criminals. Training and practice does not mean you are no longer imperfect human beings, and most people have much greater opinions of their abilities than are justified. Anyone who understands this and how dangerous guns are could not fail to conclude how wrong it is to place these instruments in people's hands. It's a recipe for disaster, as homicide and suicide statistics worldwide attest.

Gun owners are far more likely to become suicide victims than to save their lives by defending themselves against criminals bent on murder. Their guns are far more likely to be used against themselves or their family or friends than against criminals.

There will always be a black market. I can get a weapon in Tampa, Fl. in less than 30 minutes, and I am sure that is possible in most cities.

So you gun nuts are so determined to have your guns that you'd buy them on the black market if you couldn't obtain them legally? Wow!

Percy writes:

Does that invalidate the gun statistics? No.

Which ones.

The one that shows more people are killed by fists per year than all rifles...etc...

Rifles? I believe you and Jar's bragging has been about the handguns you all are toting, not rifles. Around 90% of murders are committed with handguns, as opposed to rifles and shotguns.

Oh I know it is like cars they are a necessary evil we can't get along without them.

Who views cars as a necessary evil? They're essential to the world economy, and they've become more and more safe over time, unlike guns which have become more and more deadly. If automated driving becomes an eventual reality then automobile deaths should drop dramatically by around 90% (Department of Transportation estimate as quoted in How autonomous vehicles could save lives).

You don't like guns so you think because you can get along without them...

Most people get along fine without guns. At most only 30% of Americans own guns. And statistics tell us that gun ownership increases the risk of death by gun for the gun owner, his family, and his friends.

...I ought to conform to your way of thinking and living, and forgo owning guns. You can forget that.

What I actually think you ought to do is think rationally while considering the facts.

There is probably 21 million ex military men that feel the same way as I do. The active service is more than 2 million men and women today.

God Bless,

Like others who have recently commented I am struck by the degree to which the religious are attracted to guns and the military.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2018 1:14 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 389 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2018 9:09 PM Percy has responded
 Message 391 by Minnemooseus, posted 10-02-2018 11:39 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17736
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 376 of 447 (840627)
10-02-2018 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by Faith
10-02-2018 4:31 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Faith writes:

It's unbelievers who are the arrogant ones who think they can better understand God's word against the entire history of the Church. THAT is the real arrogance here.

So the Bible's message is that God wants us to carry guns?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 4:31 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 5:03 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
RewPrev1
...
2324
25
2627
...
30Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2018