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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
Faith
Member
Posts: 30162
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 377 of 662 (840628)
10-02-2018 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by Percy
10-02-2018 4:59 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
No. I don't think it condemns carrying them according to the second amendment, that's all.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by Percy, posted 10-02-2018 4:59 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6351
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 378 of 662 (840635)
10-02-2018 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by Aussie
10-02-2018 2:11 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Faith writes:

Sorry for yelling at you in italics, but the subtlety of your own words seems to have been lost on you.

I guess so.

Tell me, do you honestly, hand on bible, think Jesus would walk through the streets carrying two hand guns and a knife or two? Was that his intended message?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by Aussie, posted 10-02-2018 2:11 PM Aussie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 6:44 PM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 381 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-02-2018 6:54 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 379 of 662 (840636)
10-02-2018 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by Aussie
09-27-2018 1:29 PM


Re: Problem
Hi Aussie,

Aussie writes:

There's just no end to the things they say with a straight face! I can't wait to share this one around the office...

Just be sure to tell them I have not shot anybody accidently, nor on purpose in 72 years. In the military I never had to go to war. Now I have killed a lot of animals that I ate, and shared with friends.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by Aussie, posted 09-27-2018 1:29 PM Aussie has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 30162
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 380 of 662 (840637)
10-02-2018 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by Tangle
10-02-2018 6:38 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
I didn't write that, Tangle. Aussie wrote it to jaywill I think.

But no, I don't think Jesus would carry a weapon.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Tangle, posted 10-02-2018 6:38 PM Tangle has not yet responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5603
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 381 of 662 (840639)
10-02-2018 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by Tangle
10-02-2018 6:38 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Tell me, do you honestly, hand on bible, think Jesus would walk through the streets carrying two hand guns and a knife or two? Was that his intended message?

Uhhhh.... duhhhh.

One of the more troubling aspects of Americanized Christianity is the amalgamation of war and God, as if the two are designed to be inextricably linked.

There are verse after verse about humility, long-suffering, peace, but so many Christians, especially in America, conflate their military history with Christianity to somehow make them fit. American patriotism and Christianity have nothing to do whatsoever with one another.

Imagine what Christians could do such as feeding the poor, visiting those in prisons, etc instead of chastising people on internet forums. I fully indict myself in that when I was a Christian. I spent more time trying to prove the accuracy of my beliefs than I did exercising it in earnest and sincere gratitude and care for my fellow man.

I wonder if anyone else here comes to mind... perhaps another finger-wagging moralist prig.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Tangle, posted 10-02-2018 6:38 PM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by Faith, posted 10-02-2018 7:08 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 30162
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 382 of 662 (840646)
10-02-2018 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 381 by Hyroglyphx
10-02-2018 6:54 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
I'm sure some Christians do confuse their Christian life with their worldly life, and I'm also sure these discussions usually revolve around just that sort of confusion, unbelievers in particular always misapplying what Jesus said to individual believers, confusing it with the obligations of government and citizenship in this world.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-02-2018 6:54 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 392 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-03-2018 12:31 AM Faith has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 383 of 662 (840649)
10-02-2018 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 348 by Aussie
10-02-2018 12:40 PM


Re: Problem
Hi Aussie,

Aussie writes:

Funnier still, the irony seems truly lost on you.

I defend my right that is given to me by our forefathers who gave us the second amendment. I am well trained in weapons of all kinds and if you came at me without a gun I would not need my gun to get the same result, although I am getting a little old, and can't bench press over 200 lbs I think I would get by.

But in the last 72 years I have not had to point my gun at a human.

By the way I did not notice how long you had been here only that you had a few posts and I did not remember you ever answering one of my posts.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by Aussie, posted 10-02-2018 12:40 PM Aussie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by Aussie, posted 10-03-2018 12:51 PM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 384 of 662 (840652)
10-02-2018 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by Tangle
10-02-2018 3:06 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi tangle,

Tangle writes:

Jesus commanded Peter, “Put your sword away!

He didn't say leave it at home did he? It was His time to go to the cross so He did not need protecting.

Tangle writes:

My point is that if you think that Jesus would approve of you and Jar strutting around carrying guns and knives you're corrupting everything he's supposed to stand for.

If you met me on the street you would not know if I had my 44 magnum in my possession or not. If you met me in the woods you would see it hanging on my hip, and my shotgun in my hand or over my shoulder.

The only place you will ever hear or read me saying anything about it is here at EvC, or in a private meeting.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by Tangle, posted 10-02-2018 3:06 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 394 by Tangle, posted 10-03-2018 2:44 AM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 385 of 662 (840653)
10-02-2018 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by caffeine
10-02-2018 4:10 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Tangle,

Tangle writes:

According to the CDC, in 2015 36,252 people were killed by guns.

I said rifles because the AR15 is always the gun that invokes the ban guns argument.

Tangle writes:

I am unable to find any stats on the numbers killed specifically by rifles or fists. Do you have them handy?

I have posted them in the past and will look them up for you.

2016 Death by following means:
Total firearms 11,004
Handguns 7,105
Rifles up to 375 over 2015, 258 due to mass shootings.
Shotguns 262
Cutting instruments 1604.
Blunt objects 472.
Personal weapons, hands, fists, feet. 656.
You can find those stats: https://ucr.fbi.gov/...es/expanded-homicide-data-table-4.xls

God Bless,
God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by caffeine, posted 10-02-2018 4:10 AM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 405 by caffeine, posted 10-03-2018 2:11 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 386 of 662 (840654)
10-02-2018 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by ringo
10-02-2018 12:54 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi ringo,

ringo writes:

Turning the other cheek is a pretty good argument against self-defense.

You slap me on one cheek I will turn the other. After that all bets are off.

But if you start to point a gun at me I will blow your brains out before you can shoot me if I can.

You crash through the door of my house I will do the same.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 12:54 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 399 by ringo, posted 10-03-2018 11:37 AM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 403 by Aussie, posted 10-03-2018 1:07 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 387 of 662 (840655)
10-02-2018 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by Aussie
10-02-2018 2:11 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Aussie,

Aussie writes:

According to the story, Peter was apparently "Open carrying" a lethal weapon in public. Even after following the Living Christ around as He engaged in His public ministry, there was that moment where Peter lost his temper, and USED THAT DEADLY WEAPON AGAINST A FELLOW HUMAN IN ANGER IN AN APPARENT ATTEMPT TO KILL.

What makes you think he lost his temper.
This mob was trying to take Jesus away and he was only trying to protect Jesus. In his position I would have done the same except I would have cut his head off. Then Jesus would have had a greater miracle reattaching the head, rather than the ear, for everyone to witness.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by Aussie, posted 10-02-2018 2:11 PM Aussie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 402 by Aussie, posted 10-03-2018 12:56 PM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 388 of 662 (840656)
10-02-2018 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 357 by ringo
10-02-2018 3:25 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi ringo,

ringo writes:

He said that the swords were for a (contrived) fullfilment of the prophecy

Where did He say that?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 357 by ringo, posted 10-02-2018 3:25 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by ringo, posted 10-03-2018 11:33 AM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 389 of 662 (840661)
10-02-2018 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by Percy
10-02-2018 4:54 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Percy,

Percy writes:

Is it impossible that neither you nor Jar could ever become mentally ill or despondent or depressed or violently angry or decrepit or mentally infirm, etc? Is it impossible that neither you nor Jar could ever be careless or make a mistake or drink too much or exercise poor judgment, etc? These are rhetorical questions. Except for the most conceitedly in denial, the answer is that you are both human and imperfect and of course these things are possible.

Do you think I will become mentally ill after I leave my house on the way to town?

Do think I will become despondent or depressed after I leave my house on the way to town?

Do think I will become violently angry or decrepit after I leave my house on the way to town?

Do you think I am going to drink too much since I have not had any acholic beverage since 1962?

Do you think I am going to become careless or use poor judgment after I leave the house on my way to town?

Yes I am imperfect and just a sinner and all those things are possible but they will not happen in a days time. I have a wonderful wife of 62 years and I am sure if I started suffering from any of the things you mentioned she would hide all my ammunition, car keys, and truck keys if they did happen. But I would hope that with all the training and practice I have had I would recognize them coming on and take care of the problem myself.

Percy writes:

So you gun nuts are so determined to have your guns that you'd buy them on the black market if you couldn't obtain them legally? Wow!

No I have enough to last me the rest of my life.

But just think if I could get one that quick how long would it take a criminal to get one?

The those you referred to up above in your message are the criminals I just mentioned.

Percy writes:

Rifles? I believe you and Jar's bragging has been about the handguns you all are toting, not rifles. Around 90% of murders are committed with handguns, as opposed to rifles and shotguns.

Then why are you always talking about AR15 weapons of war?

That is what is always put forth as the reason for banning guns.

But I prefer my shotgun over any other weapon. As Mr Bidden says just shoot both barrels at once. That would not work out too well I would prefer a pump action magazine fed 14" barrel that can fire a shell that has 15 pellets per shell that are about the size of an AR15 bullet. Then if that magazine happens to hold 28 shells just think of the damage that could be done with it.

Percy writes:

What I actually think you ought to do is think rationally while considering the facts.

Fact 1 is I have owned and used guns 72 years of my 79 years on the earth.

Fact 2 is I have never had an accident.

Fact 3 is I have never harmed anyone with any of my guns.

Fact 4 is the second amendment give me a constitutional right to own and use my guns.

Fact 5 it can be taken from my dead hands.

Fact 6 if I get to the point I become a danger to my wife I will lay my guns down.

Percy writes:

Like others who have recently commented I am struck by the degree to which the religious are attracted to guns and the military.

We love our country and took an oath to protect the constitution of the United States of America which is a Republic not a democracy as many claim.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by Percy, posted 10-02-2018 4:54 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 390 by Minnemooseus, posted 10-02-2018 11:28 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 400 by Percy, posted 10-03-2018 12:27 PM ICANT has responded

    
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3685
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 1.9


(2)
Message 390 of 662 (840667)
10-02-2018 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 389 by ICANT
10-02-2018 9:09 PM


Rationally able to determine you have become irrational?
Just focusing on one point:

ICANT writes:

Fact 6 if I get to the point I become a danger to my wife I will lay my guns down.

See subtitle.

You are now, more or less, in full denial that you possessing firearms can be a source of danger to someone.

What would it take for you to determine that you are no longer rational enough to possess firearms without being a danger to someone? Can a crazy person objectively evaluate that he is a crazy person? I don't think so.

Moose

Added by edit -

My mother was a retired Licensed Practical Nurse (LPN) who had plenty of experience taking care of the aged. A number of years ago, she was living in an assisted living home and was also a frequent visitor to the neighboring nursing home, which was everything that a good nursing home should be. She saw that the nursing home was a good place, and not a place to be feared.

She then had one or more small strokes or something, and got rather fuzzy headed and her ability to take care of herself took a severe dip. She also was becoming a significant nuisance (not a danger) to the other residents of the home. It came down to me to persuade her to make the move to the nursing home.

Me: "Mother, you need to move to living in the nursing home."

Mother: "Why?"

I think: "If you could understand the reason you need to be making the move, you wouldn't be needing to make the move."

Now, I was on leave from my job in Nevada, and ended up spending many weeks staying with my mother in her apartment.

One day I said: "You know, I'm not leaving until you make the move to the nursing home."

Mother immediately replied (and this is the literal truth): OK, I'll go.

A day or two later she had her own room in the nursing home. And she loved living there.

The paraphrased line to ICANT could be: "If a less than rational person could understand the reason he needed to give up having firearms, he wouldn't be needing to give up his firearms."

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Added by edit.

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Typos not caught by the first "preview".


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2018 9:09 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by ICANT, posted 10-05-2018 5:04 PM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

    
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3685
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 391 of 662 (840668)
10-02-2018 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by Percy
10-02-2018 4:54 PM


Open carry making you a preferred target?
Really a reply to Jar & ICANT, but also a follow up to Percy's message.

I think that being an open carry person would somewhat be like wearing a jacket with a bullseye on it.

If a full-blown wacko is out with his gun, who is going to catch his attention? Who is going to make him feel threatened?

Is he going to be deterred by seeing your holstered sidearm? I don't think so. He's thinking "That guy is going to be dead before he can unholster his sidearm."

Drawing attention and making yourself appear threatening is not the way to make yourself safer.

Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by Percy, posted 10-02-2018 4:54 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 393 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-03-2018 12:47 AM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply
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