Gun Control III

Hi Percy, If you will look at your chart below this statement you will see a total kill number of 243.You will see a total number injured of 631.There are many weapons that could have been used and the dead number would have been much greater. Depending on the shooter there could have been in the range of 500 or even 600 dead.That is the reason I classify the AR15 as a toy. Not that it can't sling a lot of lead.A slingshot with pre-WW2 red rubber and broke cast iron is pretty good for killing squirrels. It just does not have the killing power of a 22 rifle. The AR15 would classify as the slingshot compared to the 22 rifle when compared to many weapons that are available.God Bless,

Well they do stop drivers without licences.

It is not an opinion that an AR15 is a gun. It is a fact.You said that guns are tools. Therefore an AR15 is a tool. That is logic. You have made it clear in this thread that a gun in your hands is dangerous. Two hundred years ago, the constitution allowed you to own slaves. Decent people didn't do it just because they could get away with it.

Hi frako, A law does not stop anybody from doing anything.
It is against the law to kill people. Does that stop people from killing?
It is against the law to drive without a license. Does that stop people from driving without a license?Maybe where you live laws stop people from being people and doing whatever they want to do. But where I live laws are just an inconvenience.God Bless,

I suppose there must be creationists that aren't just plain stupid, but you wouldn't know it from reading the stuff they write here.The law doesn't stop anybody doing anything, it has to be backed by a criminal justice system - ie a police force that will arrest people who shoot other people, a prosecution service that will prosecute defendants, a court system that will try and convict a criminal and a penal service that will punish them.Having all that prevents most people committing crimes; it doesn't prevent all crime because people can be greedy, angry, drunk, drugged, mean, calculating and just plain stupid. It's called deterrence and it works.

Hi ringo, It is only dangerous to animals if I am hunting for them for meat.
It is only dangerous to humans if they are trying to harm or kill me or someone in my presence.Other than that it is just like the pen I carry in my shirt pocket, a tool to be used when necessary. Sure they did and most of them were not in the political party of Lincoln.A little known fact, in 1650 Anthony Johnson who was a free negro who owned a 250-acre farm in Virginia during the 1650s, with five indentured servants under contract to him. One of them, a black man named John Casor, claimed that his term of service had expired years earlier and Johnson was holding him illegally. In 1654, a civil court found that Johnson in fact owned Casor’s services for life, an outcome historian R Halliburton Jr. calls one of the first known legal sanctions of slavery other than as a punishment for crime.God Bless,

Hi Tangle, I didn't say that laws did not deter honest people from doing bad things.I did say: "A law does not stop anybody from doing anything."People break all kinds of laws and usually justify their action by blaming some event or person for their actions.There is one lawmaker that if you break His laws you will be brought to justice and you will pay for the rest of eternity. I know you don't believe that but that is your problem.People do what they choose to do regardless of what the law says.God Bless,

Unless the wespon is locked up and the ammunition is locked up separately, it is never safe. Thinking a weapon is "safe" is the first safety violation. Irrelevant. The point is that they did what they did because it was legal - with no consideration of whether it was morally right. That's your stated position on gun ownership.

I'm not jumping to conclusions. You and Jar and Hyroglyphx have made clear that guns are your toys. Yes, I know you did. And I replied about guns in general: "Guns are toys to you gun nuts." Guns have no legitimate civilian purpose, except hunting for food (not sport). Some people shoot trees for fun, other people pretend that threats might appear at their door at any moment and so they prepare their guns and peepholes and early detection systems and blow away the poor UPS delivery guy. So you don't shoot things you can't eat, huh. So you eat the targets from the practice range? Glad to hear you won't turn into a cannibal when the criminal hordes appear on your doorstep. The loonies are anyone who thinks they need a weapon. If you'd bothered to read what I said instead of just excerpting three words from a short paragraph, you'd see I was referring to guns in general, not the AR-15. Again, you should read what you're replying to. The paragraph was about guns in general. It is equally hard to have a conversation with someone who is continually lying and saying foolish and idiotic things. It is, hopefully, within your power to begin making sense, though I've read ahead in the thread and seen that if you have the ability to make sense you haven't employed it. So you're in favor of background checks for all gun purchases? Most states do not require background checks for gun purchases at gun shows. What state do you live in? Don't you think gun registries would be very helpful in crime solving? So the only reason you mentioned registrations at gun stores is because you know they're useless because it scatters gun registrations all over hell. You know I believe Trump's a malevolent self-serving racist misogynistic autocratic force for evil, so why would you think that? I think we should elect competent trustworthy people who have the best interests of the country at heart. When such people are in charge then government can be an overwhelming force for good. Too often this is true. A more informed electorate would help, too. Trump tells the people at his rallies that (for example, there are a wide range of topics Trump lies about to choose from) Democrats want open borders and they believe him. In politics there is a strong correlation between money and winning. It turns out advertising isn't especially effective, that it's more that the candidate with the best chance of winning tends to attract the most money. The rich are especially keen about making office holders aware they've donated significantly to the campaign.--Percy

I think I'm going to have to leave this forum, I'm having great difficulty coping with the degree of irrationality and sheer stupidity you guys spout whilst just knowing that you're right.Do tell, why would an 'honest' person need to be deterred?When you've tortured your way out of that one, tell me what would happen if we removed all laws.

Actually Straggler was quite specific that the context was motor vehicle safety. Can you cite any regulations making guns safer? I mean for the people on the business end of the gun, of course. Hmmm, suddenly you seem to understand the context was motor vehicle safety. Interesting.Improved car design has had a significant impact on motor vehicle safety. Over the years regulations specifying car safety requirements have become more and more stringent, making cars increasingly safe over the years with safety features like seat belts, airbags, passenger compartment cages, collision absorbing bumpers and frames, deflection mechanisms so the engine doesn't end up in the front seat, etc. Manufacturers have begun equipping some cars with crash avoidance systems.Guns have gone in the opposite direction and become increasingly deadly over the years. Check this out: Oh, come on. A .22 with normal bullets is much less deadly than a .357 magnum with hollow points. From an ammo site:

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357 magnum jacketed hollow point ammo is a great choice for folks that need a powerful self-defense round. Loaded with a hollow point bullet that is designed to expand upon contact with your target, these rounds are engineered to deliver the most amount of damage possible.

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See that: "engineered to deliver the most amount of damage possible." There is no doubt that firearms have become increasingly deadly over the years. Regulation is necessary to abate this trend. As shown above, motor vehicle death rates are falling, gun death rates are rising. Well that's a silly thing to say. Of course government regulations don't stop anyone's actions, and not just for cars and guns, but for anything. What government regulations can do is make injury and death less likely, for instance (and as already explained in messages you ignored) by mandating training, licensing, maintenance and storage requirements, etc.--PercyEdited by Percy, : Grammar.

There is no chart below your statement. Competent as ever, I see. I'll comment on those things I can figure out. Okay, I see, you're making the point that there are deadlier weapons than the AR-15, that in fact it is so puny as an instrument of death that it should be considered a toy. Tell you what. Let's put you and a five-year old in a room and give the five-year old a loaded AR-15 with a nice light trigger to play with. Are you game?If you're going to say stupid things then you can't refuse to reply using the excuse that someone called you stupid. When you're stupid then own it, and right now you're being incredibly stupid. The easiest way to get out from under a stupid comment is just to say, "Oops, sorry." Continuing this pointless stupid argument that the AR-15 is a toy is just, well, stupid, especially since DrJones* mentioned over a week ago that you can chamber an AR-15 up to larger calibers like a .45.Just to help you out making the right decision, here again for your edification and enjoyment is the table of mass shootings performed with an AR-15 or equivalent: Moving on: Still stupid.--PercyEdited by Percy, : Didn't mean to hit "Submit", was mostly done, just made a few minor edits.Edited by Percy, : Minor edit.Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

I had to choose whether to post this under the Trump Presidency thread or the Gun Nut thread, and I decided to post it here in the Gun Nut thread. Those of you on or near our southern border, be forewarned: gun nuts are either there or on the way, as reported here: Armed militia groups head to the border, sparking military concernsWhy, you might ask, are militia groups heading for our southern border? Because our idiot president has been sounding the alarm about families peacefully approaching our border to apply for political asylum. Oh, pardon me, I didn't get that right. I meant hordes of rampaging MS13 members and tough hombres with drugs, guns, leprosy and gonorrhea threatening to overrun our borders to take our jobs, sell drugs, murder our men, rape our women, and spread disease. Excerpts:

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Armed bands of civilian militia members are traveling to the southern U.S. border, where President Donald Trump has ordered thousands of active-duty troops to rebuff the approaching migrant caravan.

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About 200 unregulated armed militia members [are] currently operating along the southwest border, says a planning document for Army commanders... pointing out reported incidents of unregulated militias stealing National Guard equipment during deployments.

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The U.S. Border Patrol late last month warned landowners in Texas to expect possible armed civilians to come onto their property because of the caravan, The Associated Press reported.

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Gee, it all sounds just peachy! I just feel so safe now knowing these wingnuts are there. Me, I think the true threat is Canada, which is taking advantage of the southern move of US troops to secretly mass on our northern border.--Percy

Percy, you forgot the smallpox. Some RW preacher was warning us about these same unwashed hordes bringing smallpox. He wasn’t real clear on where they had found any, but watch out!!! It’s only been exterminated for about forty years now.And the US military has been warned to watch out for militiamen stealing weapons and supplies from them - True Patriots are apparently prone to do that.

Hi ringo That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. That is a good thing about America. They did change the constitution didn't they.
You don't like the law change it. But that is a pretty high mountain to climb. It only takes 13 states to defeat any such amendment.I believe I have a constitutional right to own and bear arms.
I do not apologize for my position. In 72 years of owning and using guns I have never harmed anyone by my owning or carrying my weapons.God Bless,