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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 647 of 662 (844171)
11-26-2018 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 646 by Pressie
11-26-2018 6:32 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Pressie writes:

In our case my brother keeps his 2 hunting rifles in a police approved safe in the house where my wife and I live.


The key word here is "hunting". If you're using a gun to hunt animals, it isn't that hard to keep it safe between hunting expeditions. But if, like ICANT, you're using it to blow people's heads off, it has to be handy, not safe.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 646 by Pressie, posted 11-26-2018 6:32 AM Pressie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 650 by ICANT, posted 11-27-2018 6:58 PM ringo has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 648 of 662 (844293)
11-27-2018 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 633 by DrJones*
11-23-2018 5:42 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Dr.

Dr writes:

jump through the right hoops,

If you will check there a lot of those hoops and it is not worth it.

And I suppose you want me to go through the same things to own my shotgun.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 633 by DrJones*, posted 11-23-2018 5:42 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 652 by DrJones*, posted 11-27-2018 8:00 PM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 649 of 662 (844295)
11-27-2018 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 646 by Pressie
11-26-2018 6:32 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Pressie

Pressie writes:

So, unless the criminals blow up the safe and are also able to open it, they won't be enabled to get hold of those hunting rifles at all.

Sounds like you live in a safe area.
But what would anyone want with hunting rifles? If they are hunters they would have their own weapons.

Most gun crimes are committed with hand guns. Then AR15's followed by ak47's. The latter two being status weapons.

But I lived in a British territory for 15 years so I know what it is to not have my guns handy but I did not feel like I needed them. There was weapons on the Island and kept at the gun range. I did go practice many times using my boss's weapons. The governor kept a weapon in his house but I don't know anybody else who did.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 646 by Pressie, posted 11-26-2018 6:32 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 653 by Pressie, posted 11-28-2018 5:11 AM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 650 of 662 (844296)
11-27-2018 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 647 by ringo
11-26-2018 10:59 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi ringo

ringo writes:

But if, like ICANT, you're using it to blow people's heads off, it has to be handy, not safe.

I am not using my guns to blow peoples heads off. I have my guns to keep someone from blowing my head off. Big difference.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 647 by ringo, posted 11-26-2018 10:59 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 651 by ringo, posted 11-27-2018 7:37 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 651 of 662 (844298)
11-27-2018 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 650 by ICANT
11-27-2018 6:58 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
ICANT writes:

I am not using my guns to blow peoples heads off. I have my guns to keep someone from blowing my head off. Big difference.


No, no difference at all. Your guns can't prevent somebody else from blowing your head off. Your only chance is to blow his head off first. And you'd have to read his mind to know whether he was going to blow your head off. Your intention is to shoot first in case you might be shot at.

I've already shown you where Jesus told you not to shoot back, much less shoot first.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 650 by ICANT, posted 11-27-2018 6:58 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1757
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 652 of 662 (844302)
11-27-2018 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 648 by ICANT
11-27-2018 6:37 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
If you will check there a lot of those hoops and it is not worth it.

pay a $200 tax, fill out a few forms and undergo a back ground check, how onerous.

And I suppose you want me to go through the same things to own my shotgun.

the tax may be a bit much for an average firearm but I don't see what's wrong with the rest. I had to take 2 safety courses, submit an application, pay an application fee, undergo a background check, have a phone interview, and provide 2 references before I was issued my Possession and Acquisition License with the Restricted firearms endorsement. None of that was particularly taxing.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 648 by ICANT, posted 11-27-2018 6:37 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 654 by ICANT, posted 11-28-2018 10:54 AM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1965
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 653 of 662 (844319)
11-28-2018 5:11 AM
Reply to: Message 649 by ICANT
11-27-2018 6:55 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
ICANT writes:

Sounds like you live in a safe area.

I gather the pun is not intended. But, yeah, our complex has been big-crime-free since it was built.

ICANT writes:

But what would anyone want with hunting rifles? If they are hunters they would have their own weapons.

My brother goes out and hunts different types of game with his weapons.

ICANT writes:

Most gun crimes are committed with hand guns. Then AR15's followed by ak47's. The latter two being status weapons.

Yep. Melt them. Send them into the sun. Just get rid of them. Ban them.

ICANT writes:

But I lived in a British territory for 15 years...

Well, the country I call home got rid of the British before I was born. My secondary home is an independent country where the Queen is head of state. Those guns are in the former. I don't have any guns in the house in the latter.

ICANT writes:

...has not been British territory so I know what it is to not have my guns handy but I did not feel like I needed them. There was weapons on the Island and kept at the gun range. I did go practice many times using my boss's weapons. The governor kept a weapon in his house but I don't know anybody else who did.

Yes, and?

ICANT writes:

God Bless,

May the Holy FSM touch you with a Holy Noodly Appendage.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 649 by ICANT, posted 11-27-2018 6:55 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6116
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 654 of 662 (844333)
11-28-2018 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 652 by DrJones*
11-27-2018 8:00 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Dr

Dr writes:

the tax may be a bit much for an average firearm but I don't see what's wrong with the rest. I had to take 2 safety courses,

The fee would not bother me.
I have had a background check.
I was trained in the military.
I qualified Expert with M1, 308, and 45.

I still fire at the expert level meaning with my target pistol and 308 I get all bull's eye's. In fact you can cover all the holes with one hand.
You are allowed to miss 4 out of 30 shots and still classify as expert.

I take a refresher course every year as laws change all the time.

I have trained on courses where targets appear out of nowhere and you have to choose whether to fire or not as some are friendly and others are enemies. Lots of fun. Never shot the wrong target yet.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 652 by DrJones*, posted 11-27-2018 8:00 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 655 by Percy, posted 12-05-2018 3:35 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17965
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 655 of 662 (844813)
12-05-2018 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 654 by ICANT
11-28-2018 10:54 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
ICANT writes:

I have trained on courses where targets appear out of nowhere and you have to choose whether to fire or not as some are friendly and others are enemies. Lots of fun. Never shot the wrong target yet.

You must be great at Whack-a-Mole.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 654 by ICANT, posted 11-28-2018 10:54 AM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 17965
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 656 of 662 (844815)
12-05-2018 3:55 PM


Hey you gun control nuts, deal with this!
NBC News report: South Carolina woman fatally shoots escaped inmate who broke into her home

Reports vary, but the consensus seems to be that she was sleeping in her bedroom when an escaped convict still wearing jailhouse orange broke down her back door, grabbed a knife sharpener out of the kitchen, then went upstairs to the bedroom. By that time she had her gun out and ready. She fired one shot, hitting the inmate in the head. He died en route to the hospital. The woman is an example of a good guy, er, gal with a gun.

What would have happened if she hadn't had a gun? Would he have killed her with the knife sharpener? Or would he have told her he needed men's clothes and to get some out? We'll never know.

Of course for the woman to have armed herself so quickly means the gun wasn't in one safe and the ammo in another. The gun was already loaded and sitting in a nightstand or a bureau drawer or someplace like that, just waiting for some child or relative or friend or burglar or even herself in a depressed or unbalanced state to find it and use it.

The local police chief praised the woman profusely, saying people should emulate her. That is, of course, nonsense. The woman violated one of the primary rules of gun safety by not keeping her guns and ammo locked up separately. See the Washington Post article for a more rational stance: An escaped inmate kicked down a sleeping woman’s door. But she had a gun.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 657 by DrJones*, posted 12-05-2018 4:32 PM Percy has responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1757
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 657 of 662 (844817)
12-05-2018 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 656 by Percy
12-05-2018 3:55 PM


Re: Hey you gun control nuts, deal with this!
Of course for the woman to have armed herself so quickly means the gun wasn't in one safe and the ammo in another. The gun was already loaded and sitting in a nightstand or a bureau drawer or someplace like that,

that's a statement without support. We don't know the time between him entering her house to when she realized an intruder was in her house to when he got to her room and she shot him. My guns and ammo are all locked up safely and I can easily get one out and readied within 5 minutes., the WP version of the story said "moments" later a 911 call was received but who knows how long a "moment" really is.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 656 by Percy, posted 12-05-2018 3:55 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 658 by Percy, posted 12-05-2018 7:15 PM DrJones* has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17965
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 658 of 662 (844823)
12-05-2018 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 657 by DrJones*
12-05-2018 4:32 PM


Re: Hey you gun control nuts, deal with this!
DrJones* writes:

Of course for the woman to have armed herself so quickly means the gun wasn't in one safe and the ammo in another. The gun was already loaded and sitting in a nightstand or a bureau drawer or someplace like that,

That's a statement without support.

I read a number of articles, this is from Woman shoots, kills escaped inmate after he kicks down her door where Pickens County Sheriff Rick Clark is quoted saying, “The victim was trapped in her home, in her bedroom. [She] was in fear for her life, she used lethal force to protect herself.” Do you think it likely that she has lockboxes and keeps them in her bedroom?

We don't know the time between him entering her house to when she realized an intruder was in her house to when he got to her room and she shot him.

Yeah, sure. Our escaped convict, in desperate need of clothes that aren't orange and hoping to find some that fit in a bedroom, smashes down the kitchen door and instantly alerts the residents but inexplicably decides to take his time. He saunters about the kitchen, fries an egg and makes some toast, then relaxes through a delicious breakfast. He then seeks out a weapon, but instead of using all this time to select a serious kitchen knife he takes...a knife sharpener.

Then he goes into the living room, turns on the TV, and watches a Fox & Friends segment, but after a while he decides the Trump representative is never going to get around to revealing any details about the China deal, so he thought maybe it was time to go upstairs and start looking around for some clothes that aren't orange.

Meanwhile, upstairs in her bedroom, the woman has had plenty of time to open her lockboxes (she always brings her lockbox keys upstairs at night - nah, just kidding, she keeps the keys underneath the lockboxes), load the gun, and stand ready in the optimum firing stance.

My guns and ammo are all locked up safely and I can easily get one out and readied within 5 minutes.

I'm glad you're choosing the least unsafe method to keeping guns in the house. How many people have keys or know where the keys are or know the combo or whatever? In other words, how many people can open them? I think many people would underestimate this number, and I hear your average lockbox isn't that hard to defeat. And if it's small and not bolted down then any housebreaker would just take it and open it at his leisure.

How many people know one of your passwords, at home or work, doesn't matter? For anyone where the answer is more than zero then that tells me they're insufficiently security conscious and overly trusting and should not have guns in their house, lockbox or not.

The WP version of the story said "moments" later a 911 call was received but who knows how long a "moment" really is.

A "moment" is a fairly short period of time. A common example is when they ask for a moment of silence, it often ends up being around five seconds. Another common example is, "He thought for a moment before answering."

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : "trustworthy" => "trusting"


This message is a reply to:
 Message 657 by DrJones*, posted 12-05-2018 4:32 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 659 by DrJones*, posted 12-05-2018 8:03 PM Percy has responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1757
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 659 of 662 (844824)
12-05-2018 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 658 by Percy
12-05-2018 7:15 PM


Re: Hey you gun control nuts, deal with this!
Do you think it likely that she has lockboxes and keeps them in her bedroom?

why wouldn't she? that's where mine are.

Yeah, sure. Our escaped convict, in desperate need of clothes that aren't orange and hoping to find some that fit in a bedroom, smashes down the kitchen door and instantly alerts the residents but inexplicably decides to take his time. He saunters about the kitchen, fries an egg and makes some toast, then relaxes through a delicious breakfast. He then seeks out a weapon, but instead of using all this time to select a serious kitchen knife he takes...a knife sharpener.

but you don't know that that is not how things went down. We don't know a lot of things about the sequence of events.

I'm glad you're choosing the least unsafe method to keeping guns in the house.

My ammo is in locked containers. My pistols are trigger locked, in locked cases in my locked safe. Rifles and shotguns are trigger locked in locked safes. I am exceeding the legal storage requirements. How can I be safer, aside from the "don't own guns" dodge?

How many people have keys or know where the keys are or know the combo or whatever? In other words, how many people can open them?

none

How many people know one of your passwords, at home or work, doesn't matter?

nobody knows my personal passwords, I'm sure the IT guys at my office have ways of overriding the passwords related to my work stuff.

A "moment" is a fairly short period of time.

indeed but there is no set amount of time for a moment. it could just be flowery language from the writer, we don't know the timeframe of events.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 658 by Percy, posted 12-05-2018 7:15 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 660 by Percy, posted 12-05-2018 9:01 PM DrJones* has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17965
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 660 of 662 (844826)
12-05-2018 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 659 by DrJones*
12-05-2018 8:03 PM


Re: Hey you gun control nuts, deal with this!
DrJones* writes:

Do you think it likely that she has lockboxes and keeps them in her bedroom?

Why wouldn't she? That's where mine are.

Is it common for gun owners to keep their lockboxes in their bedroom? Seems a funny place to keep lockboxes, but then what do I know, I'm not a gun owner.

But you're missing the point. She just happened to be in the one room in the house where the gun was when the convict broke in. How likely is that? If it had happened some other time during the day (I believe it happened before daybreak) she could as easily have been in the family room watching television.

Do you think it likely she has lockboxes? Given the number of posts I've made to the gun control threads about children finding guns, I have my doubts.

Yeah, sure. Our escaped convict, in desperate need of clothes that aren't orange and hoping to find some that fit in a bedroom, smashes down the kitchen door and instantly alerts the residents but inexplicably decides to take his time. He saunters about the kitchen, fries an egg and makes some toast, then relaxes through a delicious breakfast. He then seeks out a weapon, but instead of using all this time to select a serious kitchen knife he takes...a knife sharpener.

Then he goes into the living room, turns on the TV, and watches a Fox & Friends segment, but after a while he decides the Trump representative is never going to get around to revealing any details about the China deal, so he thought maybe it was time to go upstairs and start looking around for some clothes that aren't orange.

But you don't know that that is not how things went down. We don't know a lot of things about the sequence of events.

Yeah, we pretty much already know it didn't happen that way. According to the Washington Post article, it was a few moments after he broke in and picked up a knife sharpener that she called 911. According to the Internet, the definition of "moment" is "a very brief period of time."

I'm glad you're choosing the least unsafe method for keeping guns in the house.

My ammo is in locked containers. My pistols are trigger locked, in locked cases in my locked safe. Rifles and shotguns are trigger locked in locked safes. I am exceeding the legal storage requirements. How can I be safer, aside from the "don't own guns" dodge?

As I just said, I'm glad you're choosing the least unsafe method to keeping guns in the house. I hope you're telling the truth. Sorry to be skeptical, but you've read ICANT's stuff, and you've read Jar's open carry stuff, and they have me, er, gunshy whenever I see claims about how safe someone says they're being.

How many people have keys or know where the keys are or know the combo or whatever? In other words, how many people can open them?

none

It is really unusual for people to be that careful and secretive and disciplined and close mouthed. I hope it's true, but it seems so similar in nature, if not the details, to ICANT's bragging. Sorry if I've let him poison the waters too much.

How many people know one of your passwords, at home or work, doesn't matter?

nobody knows my personal passwords, I'm sure the IT guys at my office have ways of overriding the passwords related to my work stuff.

You are a very unusual person if you don't share passwords. Almost everyone does this for at least some accounts. For example, do you and your wife both know the password for your joint checking account? Do you use that password anywhere else? Etc...

A "moment" is a fairly short period of time.

indeed but there is no set amount of time for a moment. it could just be flowery language from the writer, we don't know the timeframe of events.

A moment isn't a specific period of time, but it is a *brief* period of time. The articles were pretty clear that the escaped convict broke in, grabbed a knife sharpener, then marched upstairs, probably to find some non-orange clothes in the bedrooms.

Flowery language? Seriously?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 659 by DrJones*, posted 12-05-2018 8:03 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 661 by DrJones*, posted 12-05-2018 9:15 PM Percy has responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1757
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 661 of 662 (844827)
12-05-2018 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 660 by Percy
12-05-2018 9:01 PM


Re: Hey you gun control nuts, deal with this!
Is it common for gun owners to keep their lockboxes in their bedroom?

I haven't done a survey but seriously, what room in your house do you spend the most time? what room are you most aware of the comings and goings? I come from a big family, there was always kids running around the house, but my parents always knew when someone was in their room when they shouldn't be.

Do you think it likely she has lockboxes?

maybe she does, maybe she doesn't we can't tell either way. It's premature for you to rail against her for being unsafe when we know only the barest of facts.

Given the number of posts I've made to the gun control threads about children finding guns, I have my doubts.

how many news stories are there about children being unable to get their hands on their parents guns and nothing untowards happens? they don't write stories when nothing happens.

Sorry to be skeptical, but you've read ICANT's stuff

yes and i think ICANT is being unsafe and irresponsible.

you've read Jar's open carry stuff,

I have no problem with legal, safe open carry. And i have no reason to think Jar is being unsafe.

It is really unusual for people to be that careful and secretive and disciplined and close mouthed

I'm a responsible adult.

You are a very unusual person if you don't share passwords

I've shared my netflix password, but thats it.

. For example, do you and your wife both know the password for your joint checking account?

I'm single and live alone.

The articles were pretty clear that the escaped convict broke in, grabbed a knife sharpener, then marched upstairs, probably to find some non-orange clothes in the bedrooms.

and without knowing how long that actually took it's premature to jump to the conclusion that she wasn't storing her gun in a safe manner.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 660 by Percy, posted 12-05-2018 9:01 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 662 by Percy, posted 12-06-2018 10:23 AM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
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