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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 46 of 129 (837606)
08-06-2018 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
08-06-2018 4:33 PM


Re: No Apologies
Phat writes:

How would the motives of the Sheep and Goat sermon matter any more, then?

The motives of the Sheep and Goats never mattered; that is the whole point of he parable.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 08-06-2018 4:33 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 08-06-2018 5:07 PM jar has responded
 Message 49 by Phat, posted 08-09-2018 10:21 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11656
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 47 of 129 (837615)
08-06-2018 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by jar
08-06-2018 4:38 PM


Re: No Apologies
jar writes:

A God cannot die, Jesus did. And Jesus rose from the dead. And the message is "all humans will rise from the dead".

Even the goats?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by jar, posted 08-06-2018 4:38 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 08-06-2018 5:14 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 48 of 129 (837617)
08-06-2018 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Phat
08-06-2018 5:07 PM


Re: No Apologies
Absolutely. It is what was done that was significant and NOT the motivation. The Goats thought motive had value and Jesus clearly pointed out that they were wrong. What happens to the Goats after they rise from the dead is a different issue and one no one can answer.

Edited by jar, : hit wrong key


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 08-06-2018 5:07 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11656
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 49 of 129 (837788)
08-09-2018 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by jar
08-06-2018 4:38 PM


Re: No Apologies
Im talking about the motives of the author.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by jar, posted 08-06-2018 4:38 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by jar, posted 08-09-2018 10:30 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 50 of 129 (837790)
08-09-2018 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Phat
08-09-2018 10:21 AM


Re: No Apologies
LOL

Again, there is no way to know or even guess about the motivation of any author; nor is it of any relevance.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Phat, posted 08-09-2018 10:21 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 08-09-2018 10:35 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11656
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 51 of 129 (837791)
08-09-2018 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by jar
08-09-2018 10:30 AM


Re: No Apologies
In that case it matters little if and how the Great Commission changed.

So what if the deal seems sweeter and easier now? Its hard enough to get people to do anything.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by jar, posted 08-09-2018 10:30 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by jar, posted 08-09-2018 10:40 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 52 of 129 (837792)
08-09-2018 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
08-09-2018 10:35 AM


Re: No Apologies
Phat writes:

In that case it matters little if and how the Great Commission changed.

So what if the deal seems sweeter and easier now? Its hard enough to get people to do anything.

Again, the point is that the Great Commission WAS changed.

It is simply additional evidence that the Bible is the product of humans each creating the narrative they want to market.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 08-09-2018 10:35 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Phat, posted 08-09-2018 3:22 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11656
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 53 of 129 (837816)
08-09-2018 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by jar
08-09-2018 10:40 AM


Re: No Apologies
Again, the point is that the Great Commission WAS changed.

It is simply additional evidence that the Bible is the product of humans each creating the narrative they want to market.


So if Jesus actually said the Sheep/Goats parable, we could argue..(as you do) that the message represents what He wants us all to do, correct? You have always preferred this verse as one of your defining scriptures as to what Christianity is (or should be) about. Then when other Christians bring up scriptures from John or 2nd peter or Romans, you argue that these were attempts to change the original message.

My point is why should we give any more weight to Matthew 25 than we do to John or Romans?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by jar, posted 08-09-2018 10:40 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 08-09-2018 3:50 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 54 of 129 (837819)
08-09-2018 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Phat
08-09-2018 3:22 PM


Re: No Apologies
Phat writes:

My point is why should we give any more weight to Matthew 25 than we do to John or Romans?

You should not.

You should look at the whole body of writings and be honest about what is written. You should stop looking for things that can be taken out of context to suit YOUR agenda. Stop quoting John 3:16 and look at what follows as well:

John 3:16-21 writes:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Note that it goes on to explain that it is the acts, the actions that count and not simply belief or worship. The "condemnation" is not salvation but rather behavior and actions.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Phat, posted 08-09-2018 3:22 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Phat, posted 08-24-2018 11:06 AM jar has responded
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 09-04-2018 4:22 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11656
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 55 of 129 (838599)
08-24-2018 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by jar
08-09-2018 3:50 PM


Re: No Apologies
jar writes:

You should look at the whole body of writings and be honest about what is written. You should stop looking for things that can be taken out of context to suit YOUR agenda.

Dont the atheists on The Atheist Experience do the same thing? Does not their show represent an agenda of education and information?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 08-09-2018 3:50 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by jar, posted 08-24-2018 12:44 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 56 of 129 (838616)
08-24-2018 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Phat
08-24-2018 11:06 AM


Re: No Apologies
Phat writes:

Dont the atheists on The Atheist Experience do the same thing? Does not their show represent an agenda of education and information?

The fact that other people commit the same errors does not change the fact that they are still errors.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Phat, posted 08-24-2018 11:06 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11656
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 57 of 129 (839171)
09-04-2018 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by jar
08-09-2018 3:50 PM


Re: No Apologies
jar writes:

You should look at the whole body of writings and be honest about what is written. You should stop looking for things that can be taken out of context to suit YOUR agenda.

My only agenda is to promote the belief that Jesus Christ is alive in Spirit and waiting for humanity to freely accept and internalize this fact.

You and ringo, in contrast, appear to promote the idea that WE humans are responsible for our future and that no God (or Messiah) is going to rescue us.

Granted I see your point and yet do not believe it. You may say that by refusing to accept the facts that lead to your conclusions I am being dishonest with myself and others, but at this point in time, I do not concur.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 08-09-2018 3:50 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by jar, posted 09-04-2018 6:26 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 58 of 129 (839182)
09-04-2018 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Phat
09-04-2018 4:22 PM


Re: No Apologies
Phat writes:

You and ringo, in contrast, appear to promote the idea that WE humans are responsible for our future and that no God (or Messiah) is going to rescue us.

Granted I see your point and yet do not believe it. You may say that by refusing to accept the facts that lead to your conclusions I am being dishonest with myself and others, but at this point in time, I do not concur.

Kinda, you want a God that will rescue Phat.

So you only accept those parts of the Bible stories that can be claimed to support the end product YOU want.

What I point out that Jesus repeatedly says that YOU need to do it.

Nor is there any evidence that any God ever came and rescued us.

But we have been given the GREAT GIFT of knowledge of right and wrong and if we do what is right we won't need rescuing.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 09-04-2018 4:22 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 09-05-2018 2:55 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30263
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 59 of 129 (839190)
09-05-2018 2:55 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by jar
09-04-2018 6:26 PM


The Great Rescue
jar writes:

Nor is there any evidence that any God ever came and rescued us

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Col 1:12-13 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by jar, posted 09-04-2018 6:26 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by jar, posted 09-05-2018 5:46 AM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 60 of 129 (839195)
09-05-2018 5:46 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
09-05-2018 2:55 AM


Re: The Great Rescue
Notice Faith that not one of your examples shows God rescuing anyone.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 09-05-2018 2:55 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 09-05-2018 8:58 AM jar has responded
 Message 66 by Faith, posted 09-05-2018 11:34 AM jar has responded

  
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