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Author Topic:   REMIX: Who Can Be Saved?
Faith
Member
Posts: 29527
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 91 of 111 (839347)
09-06-2018 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Coragyps
09-06-2018 6:54 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
The funny thing is I have some evidence for my view, but there isn't any for yours.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Coragyps, posted 09-06-2018 6:54 PM Coragyps has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Coragyps, posted 09-06-2018 10:02 PM Faith has responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5344
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 92 of 111 (839351)
09-06-2018 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Faith
09-06-2018 8:11 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
You have yet to show any evidence after more than fifteen years here. I think there’s at least a smidgin or so of evidence that electrical signals in nerves cease shortly after death. They’ve been monitoring nematodes and such for a pretty long time now.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Faith, posted 09-06-2018 8:11 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Faith, posted 09-06-2018 11:54 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29527
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 93 of 111 (839353)
09-06-2018 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Coragyps
09-06-2018 10:02 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Well, there's the Bible. Doesn't matter what you think of it, it does testify to supernatural phenomena and has been accepted as the truth by millions over millennia. There is testimony in most cultures and religions around the world of encounters with supernatural beings. Many cultures and religions have elaborations of an afterlife, both paradises and hells. Buddhism and Hinduism do. Hades preexisted the English idea of Hell, and preexisted the Bible for that matter. Today there are "near-death" experiences" which I think are satanically engineered but they do testify of a spiritual life beyond the merely physical.

Your evidence is evidence of physical death, it shows nothing whatever about a supernatural or spiritual dimension in which the soul persists after physical death.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Coragyps, posted 09-06-2018 10:02 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 09-07-2018 5:55 AM Faith has responded
 Message 96 by ringo, posted 09-07-2018 12:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2792
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 94 of 111 (839360)
09-07-2018 5:46 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Coragyps
09-06-2018 6:54 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
U sure you wont go to hell where you will burn and cry for ever and ever, sent there by an almighty all perfect deity because he loves you.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Coragyps, posted 09-06-2018 6:54 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30837
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 95 of 111 (839362)
09-07-2018 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Faith
09-06-2018 11:54 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Faith writes:

Well, there's the Bible. Doesn't matter what you think of it, it does testify to supernatural phenomena and has been accepted as the truth by millions over millennia. There is testimony in most cultures and religions around the world of encounters with supernatural beings. Many cultures and religions have elaborations of an afterlife, both paradises and hells. Buddhism and Hinduism do. Hades preexisted the English idea of Hell, and preexisted the Bible for that matter. Today there are "near-death" experiences" which I think are satanically engineered but they do testify of a spiritual life beyond the merely physical.

But none of those are evidence of anything other than evidence that humans can hold beliefs not based on evidence.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Faith, posted 09-06-2018 11:54 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Faith, posted 09-07-2018 6:27 PM jar has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15119
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 96 of 111 (839375)
09-07-2018 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Faith
09-06-2018 11:54 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Faith writes:

Today there are "near-death" experiences" which I think are satanically engineered but they do testify of a spiritual life beyond the merely physical.


Everything to do with an afterlife is satanically engineered - "Satan" being the part of our minds that tries to fools us into doing bad things.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Faith, posted 09-06-2018 11:54 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 29527
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 97 of 111 (839410)
09-07-2018 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by jar
09-07-2018 5:55 AM


Re: The Great Rescue
Witness evidence IS evidence and there's TONS of it for these phenomena. It takes a stubborn bias to refuse to acknowledge that basic obvious fact.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 09-07-2018 5:55 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 09-07-2018 7:32 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30837
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 98 of 111 (839413)
09-07-2018 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Faith
09-07-2018 6:27 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Faith writes:

Witness evidence IS evidence and there's TONS of it for these phenomena.

LOL

Where are the tons of witnesses of what happened in the Garden of Eden?

AbE: And witness evidence is the absolute weakest least reliable evidence possible. Further, there are NOT tons of witnesses of any supernatural event.

Edited by jar, : see AbE:

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Faith, posted 09-07-2018 6:27 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Phat, posted 09-09-2018 11:45 AM jar has responded
 Message 105 by Faith, posted 09-10-2018 7:22 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11130
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 99 of 111 (839505)
09-09-2018 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by jar
09-07-2018 7:32 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
jar writes:

Where are the tons of witnesses of what happened in the Garden of Eden?

AbE: And witness evidence is the absolute weakest least reliable evidence possible. Further, there are NOT tons of witnesses of any supernatural event.

If as you say it is but a story, the readers are the witnesses of what happened in the Garden of Eden.

And if God is simply a character in a book, all we are witnesses of is what the book says.

Do you believe that God exists outside of the book? Not asking if you know...that would require evidence. Which also explains why you always ask how anyone would know.

Do you believe that God exists outside of the book...or any book....yes or no?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 09-07-2018 7:32 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by jar, posted 09-09-2018 11:58 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30837
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 100 of 111 (839507)
09-09-2018 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Phat
09-09-2018 11:45 AM


Re: The Great Rescue
Phat writes:

If as you say it is but a story, the readers are the witnesses of what happened in the Garden of Eden.

And if God is simply a character in a book, all we are witnesses of is what the book says.

Do you believe that God exists outside of the book? Not asking if you know...that would require evidence. Which also explains why you always ask how anyone would know.

Do you believe that God exists outside of the book...or any book....yes or no?

As I have pointed out in this very thread, my personal beliefs are irrelevant beyond being my personal beliefs. Is there any reason you should be allowed to know my personal beliefs beyond what I have already posted at EvC?

If I believed that God existed would that even have any meaning?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Phat, posted 09-09-2018 11:45 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Phat, posted 09-09-2018 11:59 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11130
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 101 of 111 (839508)
09-09-2018 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by jar
09-09-2018 11:58 AM


Re: The Great Rescue
jar writes:

If I believed that God existed would that even have any meaning?

Good question. Do you think that there would be any way for you to know?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by jar, posted 09-09-2018 11:58 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 09-09-2018 2:16 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30837
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 102 of 111 (839512)
09-09-2018 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Phat
09-09-2018 11:59 AM


Re: The Great Rescue
Phat writes:

jar writes:

If I believed that God existed would that even have any meaning?

Good question. Do you think that there would be any way for you to know?

Know what? Certainly I can know what I believe but would that have and reality beyond just knowing what I believe?

Does what a person claims to believe have any relevance in whether or not you are influenced by what they claim to believe?

Are you more likely to agree with what an atheist points out what is written in Genesis 2&3 or what a believer says in written in Genesis 2&3 or would you actually go read Genesis 2&3 and see for yourself what it says? Can you read Genesis 2&3 and just accept what is actually written or must you filter it through the additional layers of Dogmatic Apologist additions and revisions?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Phat, posted 09-09-2018 11:59 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 09-09-2018 2:25 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11130
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 103 of 111 (839515)
09-09-2018 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by jar
09-09-2018 2:16 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Are you more likely to agree with what an atheist points out what is written in Genesis 2&3 or what a believer says in written in Genesis 2&3 or would you actually go read Genesis 2&3 and see for yourself what it says? Can you read Genesis 2&3 and just accept what is actually written or must you filter it through the additional layers of Dogmatic Apologist additions and revisions?
First of all, why would I have any reason to mistrust the apologists? How do I know that their interpretation is any worse than what I may come up with through a plain reading? What type of reality are you hinting that I must accept?
For example, you believe(correct me if I'm wrong) that the story teaches that God gave us the gift of discernment and that this is enough...that we should not expect any other interference, guidance, or help from God.

In fact, you believe that there is no evidence that God interferes with or guides, adjusts, and charts peoples destiny. So in answer to whether I would trust an atheist's plain reading vs some believers, I would say no....I'll stick with the believers. And yet you claim to be a believer and yet teach that I Must do what needs to be done in my life. Its just not how I was taught is all. You may as well be an atheist.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 09-09-2018 2:16 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by jar, posted 09-09-2018 3:10 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30837
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 104 of 111 (839522)
09-09-2018 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Phat
09-09-2018 2:25 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Phat writes:

First of all, why would I have any reason to mistrust the apologists? How do I know that their interpretation is any worse than what I may come up with through a plain reading? What type of reality are you hinting that I must accept?

You mistrust anyone that tells you what something means and instead go and read the actual source and see what is actually written.

Phat writes:

For example, you believe(correct me if I'm wrong) that the story teaches that God gave us the gift of discernment and that this is enough...that we should not expect any other interference, guidance, or help from God.

As usual, you are wrong. I say that the Genesis 2&3 story says that we learned right from wrong. Actually the Genesis 2&3 story doesn't tell us anything about what we should do with it which should be yet another clue that that is NOT the only topic. It does go on to list a bunch of things, why we fear snakes, why childbirth seems more painful for women, why we are farmers not hunter gatherers, why we wear clothes instead of just staying naked, why we have a society based on rules and why women should be subject to men.

Phat writes:

In fact, you believe that there is no evidence that God interferes with or guides, adjusts, and charts peoples destiny.

Again, stop trying to say what I believe until you learn how to do it without being constantly wrong. I have asked repeatedly for anyone to provide any evidence of any supernatural interference, guidance, adjustment or charting of peoples destiny and so far no one has ever provided any such evidence of any supernatural interference, guidance, adjustment or charting of peoples destiny.

Phat writes:

So in answer to whether I would trust an atheist's plain reading vs some believers, I would say no....I'll stick with the believers. And yet you claim to be a believer and yet teach that I Must do what needs to be done in my life. Its just not how I was taught is all. You may as well be an atheist.

So you will deny reality because you do not like the content of a message. Got it.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 09-09-2018 2:25 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 29527
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 105 of 111 (839541)
09-10-2018 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by jar
09-07-2018 7:32 PM


Re: The Great Rescue
Witness evidence is the only possible evidence for this sort of phenomena and there is lots of it. If you discount it as you do then of course you have no evidence at all, but you're just fooling yourself in that case.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 09-07-2018 7:32 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by jar, posted 09-10-2018 7:41 AM Faith has responded
 Message 109 by ringo, posted 09-10-2018 12:04 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
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